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Sadly, my husband is WAY too much like my brother. (maybe, uh, worse even)

He biotches if I have a job that he considers "mens workplaces"....more specifically, haha, if "men" are present. Maybe it's part jealousy, cause he takes the cake on that one, really....

I got hired for a position at a construction company, it would have been a great job. Payroll manager. Great pay, great benefits, really close to home.... all that jazz. To his way of thinking "a man should do that job, because it's a man's environment".  He never quit bitching about it, until I finally gave in and didn't accept the job. And I was lucky to be offered that job, I've as yet only been a  payroll assistant (well, up until this last job) and I considered myself underqualified for it, and was excited about the offer.  :banghead:

He loathes women who work at auto parts stores (though, so do I, they are usually ignorant, and think they know everything....  and I always get in arguments with the airheads, llllll).... girls that work on road crews, or become firemen, or policemen.... he just thinks it's a "man's world".

He thinks a man has a place, and a woman has a place, and they should not intermingle. Ticks him off big time when he's working on figuring out what's wrong with a car or truck, and I figure it out, haha. Should have seen his face when I was the one to rewire his sandrail up correctly.... he was piosed, cause there were witnesses in the garage..... and that made him look "unmanly". >score<  LOL

I think guys like that need to get over it. I mean, I don't like "girlie men".... I like to know a guy can be tougher than me, and would be some form of protection should I need it (but.... then again, there are dogs who serve that purpose as well), I wouldn't want a guy stealing my hairspray, or my tweezers, or my lady shave gel.  :no:

But, the world should (and I think it is) even out a bit. No more of that "man's chores"- "womens chores".... or jobs.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

*who the hell am I talking to?*

I dunno Charm, just go to bed.

Okay, g'nite.

   LOL

Happy 4th to anyone who reads this....

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Since this is my first communications with people in an online sort of thing, I think I am just myself.....I'm a little warped, a little sensitive and just mostly wanna have fun....I have been told that I am more crude than a lot of men but I just like to have fun, Of coarse that could be due to the fact that I have 3 sons and a husband, If I wasn't that way, I don't know which way I'd be.....

And I am a really bad liar, can't lie to save my life....I have a conscience the size of Alaska....So I can't imagine being any other way other than the way I am....

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

If you get a line across your forehead while trying to accentuate a fart you may be going too far. That's strictly for us guys.  If you just talk dirty..well, we all like that.  :whistle:

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Who loves ya baby?

As I've stated,  biggest problem I had being brought up in that same environment, was that "A real man" also didn't play piano, ESPECIALLY violin... My father resented the fact that I was a more artistic male... He hated it, was embarassed by it. Told me if I ever get a pierced-ear, I'd never step foot in his home again. His brother disowned his oldest son because he became gay, refused to speak with him, or ever see him until the day he died, even then wouldn't have wanted to.. This "real men" should stuff.....  That's why I went to Med School,  "Because a real man will be a doctor",  that's also why I dropped out.  I apparently am not a real man. Another things a "real man" must do is love em, and leave em (regarding women).... Real men don't let a woman get to them, women are a dime a dozen, they are only "women"..Real men go to bars everynight and get whatever woman they want... (Yeah,  that really helped me find myself too  :no: ). Real men don't succumb to emotion, they don't weaken.  As a result, I can't feel love. While 30's and 40's a guy can carry on with alot of this role play, later life it get's REALLY REALLY lonely... Because at one point, "A real man" get's VERY lonely...and doesn't usually have himself to look inside...What should be there, is instead often  something that was killed off, repressed , shunned aspects , something we ran from..

What happens is when you try to create a warrior, or even just a balanced individual for starters, YET DO NOT take into consideration the individual *PERSON'S* needs, problems, even disabilities, but tell he/she their feelings are WRONG, and "They shouldn't feel something that's a normal feeling for all developing humans", "you tell the kid to "knock it off, that's a girls feeling", men transcend that... You are really HURTING a sensitive, emotional male who often is not cut out to be the John Wayne type...  Even-so,  My father, several engineering degree's, Mr Macho growing up near Harlem on the streets of NY *Washington Heights*, self-made man,,,Sgt in the Army, NEVER missed one day of work..

He's an empty shell... TOtally dependent on my mother... He's miserable, a nervous wreck, hasn't a clue who he is... and down under all that... He's emotionally damaged !

He's a stranger to himself, and terrified of emotion.  As a result of my own upbringing, I too fear emotion.. Won't watch any show's that have homosexuality as a part of them, Fear our evolving society... and although I realize I'm not a "real man",  I still try to fake it, figuring maybe I'll grow into it one of these days....

The biggest problems with these gender assigned stereotypes, is the damage they do to the NORMAL healthy sensitive child developing in normal ways, yet the person just happens to fall abit outside of the "Cultural stereotype" for conventional male, or female.... and is therefore alienated.  In my day there was no room for "All" people... You either were "A man", or a "wuss".... no other category... This is harmful


A real man, who happens to be born with a curse of profound sensitivity, is going to suffer in such an upbringing...No room for acute sensitivity in a "real man",,, that's a curse....a girly boy thing..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

There is one good thing to say for sure about "girlie men".  They VERY SELDOM get drunk, beat up their girlfriend/wife, verbally abuse you and make you wish you were never born. But they probably don't look as good in a cowboy hat. These things would be a pretty big plus in my book!  :)

Smart aleck Odie.

Well, if us women could only be born with the ability to see into the future.... maybe we would know these things beforehand.

And hey, not every man in a cowboy hat is that bad. I refuse to believe it.  :D

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

And Odie........ it's nearing 1:30 am...... watcha doing up still?

Get to bed!!



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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I'm probably the only character on this site that readily acknowledges he is gay.  Based on that premise and related somewhat to what Steve has been expounding upon, one of the phrases I've heard in the gay community is "straight acting".  Now, for me, that is sad thing.  If you ever met me, you'd probably say,"Geez, you know, this Michael bozo seems masculine enough, but there's this slight "pixie" quality about him (i.e., I've never worried about how people perceive me--I do and act as I please).  I've learned in life--with the usual exceptions and I won't talk about those clods--people that know me well never let my orientation bother them or affect our friendship, and I'm hoping that's essentially because I'm true to myself.  

This is off the subject a bit, but my father, the very wise man, once imparted this pearl of wisdom to me when I had got into a fight with some black kids in school:

"Michael, there is no reason to hate a group of people you don't even know.  Besides, that, it's much more fun to hate people individually."

I suppose in his strange middle European way, this was meant to be taken in another light.

Hang on to that dream!  LOL  Hope you can prove me wrong.  I double dog dare ya.
  Oh yeah, time has no meaning for the unemployed!

""Michael, there is no reason to hate a group of people you don't even know.  Besides, that, it's much more fun to hate people individually."

That's a good point that you brought up Michael.  I'm guilty of making too many broad generalizations.  It's too darn easy.  Every individual should be judged on their own merit if there is to be any judging at all.  Assuming a person is one thing or another just because of a group of people he happens to fit in with is wrong and very often inaccurate.  This may sound overly PC but I think it's still a true statement.

Wow, I just noticed I'm over 1000 posts and i have my first star coming up in a few days.  And I owe it all to Charmin!  Does life get any better than this?  I think not!

If your father, or family is/was anything like my own Michael, that must've been difficult for you.. Good old Sydney from Englewood Cliff's (my uncle) was just waiting to disown one of his three kids for marrying out've the religion... During my sister's wedding back in 83, he kept bumping me with his elbow, whispering  "Steve, you sure the guy's really jewish ?  He doesn't look or act like a Jew".  That was his obsession.  My father (who sort've has issues) I've asked, "What would you do if Michael (my nephew)-his grandchild came out and told you he's gay.. My father's first response is naturally, Nah... THe girl's are all over Michael, than Ironically my mom cut's in with.  "Your father has evolved steve".... (Glad my mouth was never full when she made such a statement).... My father is about as accepting of different concepts as Archie Bunker...  What this means, is that if my mom threatened to abandon my father,  and bribed him,  My father would call Michael on the phone, and say.... "I still love you"...

I'm not exaggerating,  this is the family I grew up in.. If I were gay,  my father would be afraid to look at me.  One thing I do know,  is that in another 40 years or-so,  when I'm approaching marriage age,  It's going to take a damn strong woman to tolerate me... Ideally a supermodel who's a psychiatric nurse, and wants a real "project"....

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I keep forgetting your a Kaplan Steve...well, if your dad was like mine, he was a hardworking man--lord he worked hard, but stoical to the nth degree.  He really was beautiful in his way.  I don't know what he made of me as I grew into my teens--the difference between my brother and I was a marked contrast to put it mildly. I was always the one playing the piano, drawing, reading--the types of things the average boy despises.  I'm sure he knew I was gay but just threw it out his mind in a way that is engendered only in Jewish males of his generation.  He was simply amazing in denying things like this to the point where he was convinced everything was as he saw it should be.  You know the deal.  Sadly, I lost him when I had just turned 20..I'm not sure exactly what he would think of my lifestyle but of course, we always would like to think when our parents have passed away too early, they would be very accepting of how we've turned out.  Say, if you have a moment, could you critique one of my submissions? It's "The Night Has a Thousand Eyes".  Someone told me I was off key all over the place and I know you have a discerning ear--I can take it whatever you dish out--I just don't think I was that off key! Thanks Steve! Michael

Oops, hit quote instead of edit.

It doesn't seem to matter though. If I post too many words my post is skipped over and then everything I say is repeated further down the thread by someone else as an original idea.

Michael,


  I'd be glad to.  Let me attempt to mellow out a bit.  I'll listen. and PM you what I notice.  Assuming it's a style I'm not overly familiar with, I can still of course detect pitch issues, timing issues, assuming there are any I can detect. I'll let you know what *I* hear.  Assuming you wish for me to post anything in the "C" or comments category, I'll leave that up to you as well.  I'd be glad to help,  I just need to get more focused here first.

You made an excellent point last post regarding the "great rationalizing" abilities of these guys.... Same with my father,  He see's what he want's only. Also gifted with an ability to introspect that's often only found in a rock... If there was something about himself he hated, or feared about himself, something that he saw in my behaviour, I got thrown around abit... wasn't a fun time,  I was never really allowed to be "a fallible kid"  I was the first of my generation. No older brothers,  It would've likely been easier if I did have an older make sibling...Especially one with good shock absorbers

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Thanks Steve--by all means I'd appreciate your critique in the comments section--it's a song I'm sure you're very familiar with.  Whenever you have a moment would be great.  

Does your dad come out with winning malpropisms on occasion? My father had some real classics from time to time:

When told he looked younger than his age:  "I'm younger than I am"
When my mom asked if there was any turkey left after the Thanksgiving dinner: "Nothing left but the skeleton"

And this heart warming father-son discourse:

My dad comes across me in my bedroom listening to old Glenn Miller records. From my doorway:

Dad: You know, Michael (always a pause before "Michael"), if you had lived back in those days when all those big bands were playing...Benny Goodman, Artie Shaw, all those people?

Me:  Yes dad?

Dad:  You'd be about 55 years old now (exits doorway)

Nope Michael.  My father wouldn't show that much sentiment when he speaks. That's far too emotional for my father.. If I was listening to Any of the old swing stuff, there'd be a knock on the door,  "What grade did you get on that math test today" ?

Micheal,  Mail, let me know what you think... I can't fit that in the comment box....

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well, it looks like I was sleep-posting last night. I opened up a little more than I wanted to but I don't seem to have embarrassed more than I can handle.

I wonder if there is a word for sleep posting like the word somnambulate is to sleep-walking.

...somnscriptology? ...somnarticulation?

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[glow=darkorchid]Musica delenit bestiam feram[/glow]