Karaoke Forums

No, Yes

Hi Gilly.  I was a tomboy til I hit about 13.  I like manicures and all the girlie stuff, yet if I had to change a tire I could do that, too.  I don't do many "manly" things around the house, cuz I already got a man that takes care of them.  But I could handle them if I had to.

_________________

Justin does- (when he is around) Dishes, the laundry, vaccuuming, sweeping, mopping, ... pretty  much anything that involves cleaning. He is a complete neat freak... I am not.  I'm not "dirty", i just am NOT tidy, or orderly.. or, neat. AT ALL. If he wasn't, we'd be in trouble. I know a LOT of wives that do ALL of the housework, and their husbands none. If I HAD a guy like that, i would be screwed, and the house would be a MESS.  However... on the other hand, i don't know WHAT i would do with a guy that couldn't fix D!CK all, like my neighbor. I know that if ANYTHING breaks, regardless of what it is, Justin can fix it. (Hell, he is an avionics engineer, he better be able to fix stuff) (My dad is also like that, and i made a POINT to be with someone that is similar, in that regard). Heck, he fixed my broken vibe before he left again:) (Justin, NOT my daddy!:)  So, he is a... feminine, manly man:) And... well, I am a manly... woman. I guess. Lol, we coincide well.

(For those who don't know me, i should add... when I say Justy (Justin),  or husband, I should mention i am NOT married... nor will i EVER be.. it is just easier to say hubby, than "common-law partner".) Blah to marriage... Not my thing. BEsides... me? In a pretty white wedding dress? MAO!

Oh, screw it.

From observations over the years, it seems like the manly men would rather date and be in relationships with the girly girls, but if given a choice, they'd rather be talking to and hanging out with the anti-girly girl type.  LOL

odie--- you may be right... but from a lesbian view point.. am I the butch chick? because, i hope not.. i couldn't stand dating a girly girl.

Besides... My guy and I are best friends first. We DO hang out etc etc... but, we ARE in a relationship, that involves intimacy. We just happen to get along amazingly well, mainly because we are each other's best friend.... with.. er.. benefits:) (well, he gets benefits.. I am still training him...)

I am so off topic it isn't funny. I apologize profusely. Sorry.

Well as far as I'm concerned any couple of any type that is best friends first has a huge advantage over other couples. It's bound to be stronger and last  longer.

I agree totally with that.  I believe your love for each other is so much deeper when you truly like each other.

_________________

Should Charmin be taking notes on how to do it right the next time around?  :shock:

*grabbing pen and paper*

Waaaaait a sec, there wont BE a next time.  :no:  You all almost fooled me.  LOL

.

_________________
♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Myself, I could write on this subject all night and all day. I am one of those people who have been misunderstood all my life and quite constantly at that.  I used to go to the clubs all the time because before karaoke took over my bar time I used to go dancing and clubbing, etc. I met lots of women and probably never had one who had me pegged. I met a girl at a blues bar and I went in wearing blue jeans, black turtleneck, black leather jacket and tach boots. I met a super nice girl who was pretty aggressive (gave me a super long french kiss in the parking lot after I walked her to her car).  We made plans to get together the next week and we went to Chuy's (Tex Mex restaurant) and then planned to go listen to live music somewhere. We started talking in the restaurant and I had just started playing tennis again and I brought that up. She said, "You play tennis?" like she was completely horrified. I told her I used to play in city league tournaments but knew I was cutting my own throat in terms of the looks on her face as we talked. I guess she thought I was some sort of dark biker type. I know I'm a hard read but she was hot and I wanted a little time for her to get to know me. We decided to take two vehicles and she decided she wasn't going where we were going to meet. I almost expected it but it was rough. I never attracted the right type of girls to me.  One thing that happened to me never did stop bothering me. I played softball with friends and after the game (years ago) they said they were going to 6th street and asked me to go. I whined and said I didn't bring any clothes fit to club in and St John (yeah, his parents named him that) offered me some of his clothes. When I got to his house he gave me shoes fit for Forest Gump, a pair of jeans that didn't fit and a shirt that I wouldn't have been caught dead in. I just kept laughing on the way down there because I figured I looked like a complete moron and John thought he lined me up just fine. When we got out to the club I asked a girl to dance and she miraculously said yes. Then her friend came and danced with us and then I wound up dancing with more girls than 98% of the nights I remember, ever.  I thought about that alot because my usual club gear consisted of black slacks, black boots, a black or gray turtleneck or dark buttondown and I think for years that was making me unapproachable to women.  I also rememer one night two girls coming up behind me at an underground club where peeps would dance by themselves (which I always liked because I was not usually looking for someone to pick up, I just liked to go dancing). So one of the girls says to the other, "yeah, he's gay".  Now straight people (like me) can dance alternative styles too and that always bugged me that they looked me over and assumed I was something I'm not.  Good looking, well dressed, can dance = gay?  Not where I come from! Anyway, everyone I ever met used to say, boy, are you ever different than I thought.  I don't know why I had to develop my social skills better than most just to have friends and meet people but I guess what people saw made them stand-offish. Oh well. I wish it were different but I guess not.  Karaoke has made me about 200% more approachable to people in bars. I think that's one of the major attractions to me of karaoke. I sing and then people come talk to me, which is cool and another plus is that karaoke took away 99% of my stage fright I used to get. Even though I did drama and stage and concert choir in high school as well as Disc jockeying and other spotlight stuff, I had definite issues with speaking to large crowds. (Not since karaoke!)  Anyway before I have to have this published in a book I suppose I could stop writing.  -sorry for the length of this but oh well-

-Jeff  :wave:

_________________
Who loves ya baby?

Not necessarily,  You find an extremely high percentage of CEO's, Police, Navy Seals, and it should be no surprise lead guitarists, and vocalists in the D/s room's as submissive's.  Reason being, in fantasy they often want to give up control they feel they need to have in real life.  Depend's on what defines "Manly men" I suppose. The "John Wayne" days of the tough Western stereotypical male are still remnant's of the Hollywood mid past-century male.. When men seldom could cry, and had to be macho... I have no idea what defines "manly man" today. It seems that many man who have to maintain alot of "control" and "toughness" such as people in the Military, often need to give it up in fantasy... So I guess it depends on what type of relationship you are speaking of, as well as what defines "Manly Man"...

That's just an exterior in our culture...  Some of those "manly" appearing men like very controlling females in fantasy, sometimes even more assertive women in real...I've known plenty of tough males who've had wives that seem to "wear the pants" in their household..  Strong "manly" appearing, is often lost and empty on the inside these days. It's a facade that's learned. It's not often what's under that shell.

I had a thread in here (which is now likely in the archives) "Is this really you" or something similar, don't recall exact title.  Overlapping content pretty much, but it seemed that while most feel they are "being real" in here, and they likely are being real, this is just a small aspect of a person interacting in this type of limited setting..  There's alot more than what we display in here of course. We only see and show a small aspect of "who we are" when we don't have the capacity to hear voice tone, see facial expression, see a person's eye's. etc...  This is who we are in THIS type situation, that's about it.

I suppose, this is who I am, because it's how I feel comfortable presenting myself in a typed anonymous setting while sitting at home not having a clue what any of you really look like, are like, and also realizing ANYONE and their mother can read what I type in here..  It's hardly me in an intimate setting, it's how I present "me" in here.. So while it's not dishonest, it's not "who I am", and doesn't display my real life. What's going on, my expression, mood, etc... It's just a small part of "me".




In public it's just an act.  I have to put pants a shirt and shoes on, comb my hair, shave, look a certain way despite who I am (how I feel, and perceive things). In public I'm conforming to a set of norms.  I have little choice... You folks know me much better than anyone who see's me in a plaza, or grocery store knows me. I won't expose certain aspects of "me" to the general public.  How can I ?  I act and they see what I want them to see... Often what I've been conditioned to show on the exterior... In public I'm not me, or real at all... Heck no.... Not a smart thing IMHO anyway, at least around here, people aren't nice collectively.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hi Steven! Was wondering where you were....




I've always thought karaoke folk were far friendlier than any other crowd.  Maybe something about being gutsy enough to sing to strangers makes a person more appealing?  I don't know what it is, but I do know that I've made more friends through karaoke than by any other means.

_________________

I'm here  LOL

Thing is, in public my life is often a game of poker where people are either waiting for me to fold, or I'm waiting for them to fold... Not a wise place to show my hand. You have to be tough when you get into certain things... Yet as I stated last post, like a job.... What we do day to day in public is often NOT who we are. IE...A nurse isn't "Who someone is", it's their job.... A politician isn't who someone is... it's acting or conforming for an objective,  An actor or artist might be who a person is more-so, but the world doesn't want to see the accompanying idiosynchratic behaviour often found in artists...etc... (Actor being more along the lines of "who a person is", I realize sounds somewhat paradoxical, when I studied Stanislovski method when learning to act, it made me realize that oftentimes a person has to really be in touch with "Who they are", and "What they feel", be pretty grounded in self.. in order to convey roles... It was tough for me)..  Same with arts,  we are often expressing self..  Some other "jobs" are must mechanical... We just have to do certain things, often abandoning :who we are:

We are forced to act in public to an extent. "Self" is usually what doesn't show. It's a conglomeration of positives, and the negatives we don't dare display in the grocery store...It's what's underneath the wrapping paper and the mask..

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

  I'm only laughing Gilly, because *I* learned better A LONG time ago..  Women for the most part are tougher than men, can do most of what men can do, and aren't afraid of getting their hands dirty changing my oil, and gapping my spark plugs.  I hate getting that yechy grease on my hands, and that dirt and oil on engines gives me the creeps !   Breaking a nail badly way back beyond the fleshy part of a finger is painful too ! I don't like pain.  I recognised A LONG time ago that what women, especially mothers have to go thru makes them MUCH more "Manly" and "Womanly" than I'll ever be.... "Macho", and "Manly" is just an elusive term IMHO.... It's a front, just an image... but if it excludes the basic emotional needs ALL people for the most part have..... To me, it's not only useless, it's harmful... If a person appears macho until 10PM,  and than locks himself in his bedroom with a bottle of scotch to numb what's real, to me it's not worth being "Manly"...  That type Manly is Hollywood Western of the old days...Stoic males, Marlboro man type... NAH... never worked for anyone I knew at least.

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The Gender-typing in the 1950's and 1960's was terrible... Real men "Don't do this", "Act like this",  "Make $$$$", have competitive jobs...etc.   Sadly, a few we thought were "real men", went out like Richard Corey.   Real men weren't human in those days,  they weren't allowed to be... HORRIBLE... I've discussed this other places... But the importance of holding up to the stereotypical image many learned, and had instilled in them, also ruined the lives of some...Early illnesses from holding feelings in.  Feeling having feelings and "letting them out", is "Girl like",  a few I knew killed themselves because they were afraid they might be Bi-Sexual".WORST thing you could call a guy in my neighborhood in the 60's, was "Faggot" or "Queer"... I grew up during an EXTREMELY homophobic period.  because that was the "Last thing" a "Manly Man" should display during those times...


Alot of us 50 and over, never grew up in a society that made room for "the real us". We were forced to conform, Either we acted like ______, or kept "US" to ourselves, and weren't to discuss it.... Consequently, there are alot of lost middle-aged males with existentialistic anxiety, who walk around in denial or role-playing the part of "Western Man"....  We weren't allowed to cry, express neediness, etc.. Many of us don't know who we are.  We often were punished for being :us:.  Some of us learned to cope using sarcasm  LOL

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think it really depends on the town you're in or the bars that you frequent.  Here in Canby right or wrong, the men are still "real men" and the women are still "real women".  It's a fairly redneck town still. The more I think about it, I don't think any true male/female generalizations can be made for our society as a whole these days.

I remember that thread of yours now Steven.  I think it was something like "Does your avatar represent who you are".

I have a brother, not much older than me, he'll be 41 in November.......

(heck, still a spring chicken, lll)  LOL

Anyways...

He is of the old school. Men do NOT wear pink, they do NOT do dishes, (he has two kids, one of each sex, and his son was NOT allowed to do dishes.... but his chores were to take out garbage, mow the yard, etc...) He would never wear clothing that had to be ironed, or let his hair be styled in a sissy sort of way. Any kind of hairspray or gel- huh uh- he'd never be caught putting it on.

Kinda funny, he never had a problem with me.... being kinda hypo-tomboy.... we are very close, and I was his shadow growing up. Girls could do "guy things". But, guys just don't do "girlie" things.... is his way of thinking. He never directly tried to put out a "macho" vibe..... but if a guy ever refered to him as being whimpy, or girlie, or impied that he had one ounce of femininity in him... he would floor them, and ask questions later.

But, then again, my parents are from the south, raised in Oklahoma and Texas.... and southern people are raised a bit differently I guess. And I think this maybe rubbed off on him from my dad. To my father, being weak in any way was just being useless. If you got knocked down, you got up again; if you cut yourself with a pocket knife, you wiped the blood off on your britches and went back to what you were doing; If you fell out of a tree, you climbed it again, and learned to hang on better. So, he grew up with the lesson to "be a man, not a baby".

What I'm getting at is.... sometimes it's all a matter of how - & sometimes can be related to "where"- you're raised, as to how you view "being macho" or "being manly". My brother did not/does not put on airs about it, that's just how he is. And, I have 4 brothers (3 still living) and they are all this way. I just point out Andy, because..... he's the only one who thinks "men can't do dishes". Haha, even my dad does dishes.


,

_________________
♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Yes, I used to go through all that kind of thing at the dance clubs myself some years ago with the ladies except I told them I was straight.

It's archived someplace now Don,  but I did give it some goofy title such as that. Either avatar, or "typing" etc...

I don't know what :real man: vs :real lady: gender-typing does except cause problems.. Meaning :sensitivity: is ladylike,  "Feeling, and mourning" is "ladylike", men let life roll off've their backs, and keep chugging cause they're men, and tougher than ladies.... etc etc.... It separates the gender's, forms a deliniation that's totally inaccurate, and also becomes a breeding ground for descrimination... "Real Ladies don't do that.... THat's a mans task".  That's an antiquated school of thought.. "Real men, get drunk and brawl.... real ladies stay with the kids... etc... OR
real men don't let that get to them, they hold stuff in get bleeding Ulcer's, Cirrhotic livers and die of a massive coronary at 40 from built up stress because real men don't weaken".  That was a pretty destructive bias in my day as a kid... NONE of us are strictly "real men or real woman"... certain needs are androgenous.. Men and women have similar needs emotionally.... I'd need a definition of something positive that comes of "Real Man" vs "Real Lady" roll assigning in a culture, that doesn't deprive one of both sexes of basic needs, and doesn't end up being used as a descriminatory bias, or forcing a person to become something they might not be... It's too limiting, and does more damage than good IMO...  IN some ways, that is


I don't know if such stereotypical qualities do much good these days Don.  I think in cases of ritual such as respect for family, belief in something, etc... IT's fine.. Assuming longer term it helps individuals...Yet the outside world doesn't adhere to such strict Real man vs  Real woman stuff these days... Noone even knows what a real man is ?   What is a real man today ?  Hard working, stone-faced, never will shed a tear ?  Has no fears ?  Fear is for women ?   How healthy is this ?


What is a "Real man" ?   IS there such a thing ?  Real as opposed to ?

Same with a woman ?  What defines her as being "real" ? By what she must NOT be ?

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I think I heard them say that and they walked away. I was pis-sed but I wouldn't chase them down just to tell them I was straight. I wasn't going to waste the time. It's not like I was suddenly wanting to prove my manhood to them or anything. I was there to dance and have fun. I had plenty of girlfriends to party with....but hell yeah, it bothered me that maybe I was doing something that people perceived as, shall we say, different?

After these threads about manhood and talking about lifestyles I may have to put my "Carnival" by Natalie Merchant and "Fade into You" by Mazzy Star on the back burner. I really did record them to post in the singer's showcase. More AC/DC and Black Sabbath first maybe. Manly songs first please....

_________________
Who loves ya baby?

I just interject these comments to kinda break up the flow.  Proceed.