Karaoke Forums

I find the arrogance and narcissistic attitudes displayed by a number of KJs’ on this site mind boggling.   I’ve come to the conclusion that some of them actually believe that karaoke is just about them – nothing more nothing less.

I’ve attended a venue where the KJ could not make up his mind whether he wanted to be a KJ or and entertainer.  He puts himself in rotation and then sings at least six consecutive songs.

There’s another KJ here that likes to talk for at least five minutes between singers.  I haven’t quite figured him out.

At another venue the KJ spends more time at the bar than at the mic.  Then on the next evening she actually admits that she can’t remember which guy she went home with the evening before.  


I’ve put up with unbelievable rotation problems.  I especially hate it when the KJ has his special friends come into down to visit and he put them up front - Telling the audience how special they are to him. I’ve been waiting an hour! I’ve already had three beers while waiting, a couple of more and I wont be able to stand up much less sing.  

I’ve also had one KJ let another singer go ahead of me because he wanted his regular to sing the last song of the evening.  I hope this guy stays his regular because I wont be going back.  I was supposed to be the last singer until his so called regular walked in at the end of the show.

I still attend one venue where I’d almost swear the sound is coming out of a pair tin cans.  The KJ can’t afford better speakers right now – knowing this, I’ll sing with him any time because he’s doing the best he can with what he has. Every couple of weeks or so he adds something new to his system – when he does you’d think that he is only six years old and it’s Christmas Day.  In addition, he’s always trying to make you sound the best he can with the equipment he has to work with.  And, he’s never failed to ask if I think the sound sounds ok.  Get this, he even goes around asking for suggestions from the audience from time to time, (really sick, uh?) There are a few KJs’ on this site that leave me to believe that they consider this type of KJ a roach and that he should be stepped upon.  I think you call them, “wannabees.”

Then there’s the attitude, “No one out there is smart enough to be a KJ but me.”  Give me frigin’ a break!  It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to be a KJ.  Anyone with a personality, a little technical skill, not tone death, and most of all someone with a lot of desire, and he can make it as a KJ.  

I will ask the KJ to turn my volume up or down - I don’t consider it his job to force his high and mighty ideals of what I should sound like on me.  If I don’t like the KJ’s rules or sound – I’m gone.  I don’t argue. I travel with a group of about fifteen to twenty people that goes out with my wife and I when I sing Karaoke on the weekends – when I leave a venue - they leave.  There’s too many clubs that have karaoke in town to put some KJ that is full of himself.

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Singing just for you

The so-called bad KJs, that you so much despise, are the exact KJs that we so much complain about.   They are the ones that give all of us a bad reputation.    You are correct for not supporting them.

I promote good quality karaoke at every job I do.    It's not about me.    I don't care if they ever know my name.  Just as long as they know where to find the best karaoke they will ever sing at.     Come to one of mine and you won't be looking anymore.

The KJ you support that is constantly upgrading and worried about how everyone sounds and the quality of his show, is someone I respect.    I don't respect the ones that think the tiny investment they made, is all they will ever need.   The ones that cater to friends in the rotation, the ones that sing more than everyone else in the rotation.   The ones that won't let you sing a song, because it's their song.     The ones that just put in the CD and can't hear and don't care about the way anyone sounds, or the ones that make themselves sound good with all of the effects know to man and turn everything off, when you sing better than they do.   The world is full of way more crappy wannabe KJs, than the good ones.  

When you find KJs like the ones that you describe, you need to complain very loudly to the bar owner that the KJ sucks.   Tell them you won't be back.   Tell them the quality of the entertainment leaves something to be desired.   Tell them that you will spread the word about their bar.    Hurt their wallet.    They understand that.

Don't complain about the KJs that are trying to make a difference.   To educate the wannabes and the karaoke singers, as to what is good and bad, exceptable behavior and what isn't.   Spread the word, we need all the help you can give.

I understand what you're saying completely Jackson.

(not to say anything bad about KJ's here...... but here is pretty much the only place I hear KJ discussions. Well, it IS the only place actually)

I've seen stupid people at karaoke, that I would boot out if I were the KJ, there's atleast one in every crowd. And KJ's do need to have rules, and protect their equipment, and not let the crowd or bar owner push them around unnecessarily. But, I say if you can't take the heat..... get the hell out of the kitchen.  

But, bottom line...... if it weren't for the singers coming into the bar, they wouldn't have a job there. Singers' money spent at the bar, and singer participation.... are all that keep a KJ in their job pretty much.  And since the singer is there for fun, and the KJ is there- getting paid- to do a job, they need to concentrate on keeping those singers happy, and doing the best job they can.

Alot of time seems to be spent saying "poor me" and "what a stupid crowd/bar owner I work for" and blah blah. Honestly, there's a few... who's venues I wouldn't care to ever visit... and I really think they should consider a new thing for "extra income" if it's so rough on them.  (again, not everyone... just a few I've read posts of)  I sometimes wonder how all of it can even be true, I've karaoke'd at alot of places, and never see that much negativity at a venue.

Personal opinion, but I commend you for saying this.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Egotististical kj's that think their shows are what all other shows should be standardized to are ones that bug me.

Kj's that allow dead air between singers, even if it's just a few seconds, put some kind of background fill music on.

Kj's that "cattle call".  Song isn't even over, they already have the next singer up & ready...jees, it's just karaoke, is that 5-10 seconds going to make THAT much of a difference at the end of a night?  Not really, maybe an extra song.

Kj's that MUST sing at the end of every rotation to "signal the begining of the next".  Just say "Alright, we are starting the next round!", this is especially annoying when there are many singers.  Kj's that just jump in to help/harmonize on the mic & end up singing the rest of the song with someone.  If you want to help, sing along where I can hear it & off of the mic.  Do not harmonize unless I ask!

Kj's that don't start a show until they have a certain amount of singers.  The shows are advertised at this time (it says nothing about , if there are enough singers there to sing...start the show & let me sing!).

Kj's that allow someone to sing a song that someone done earlier just because they think they can do it better.

Kj's that are so put out or refuse to if I happen to ask them to turn something up or down during my song.

Kj's that won't play customers original discs.  

These are just some.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I've never been to a show by any KJ on the forum, so I couldn't say who I
think is good or not. Nor would I critique a friend on the sight if I did. I think everyone here tries to do the best job they can or they wouldn't bother being
on a forum sharing ideas.

All singers aren't bad. You are just hearing our horror stories. I suppose it would sound like we were bashing singers sometimes, but that isn't our intent. Sharing our stories helps us deal with the job.

I agree there are good and bad KJs and for the most part I think the term wannabes
comes from some KJs frustration of being under cut by what you call bad KJs. Everyone has to start somewhere and maybe that is with the equipment he can afford. There is nothing wrong with that.

As for the volume thing - I'm sure that was from my thread. There is a difference between asking the KJ to turn you up so you can hear yourself and telling the KJ how
to do his or her job.
With my set up the music is much louder coming out of the mains than the monitor on stage, so you aren't hearing the volume the crowd is. There are many variables
the common singer aren't aware of.

Please remember there are a lot of demanding drunk people we have to deal with. We aren't bashing all singers just the pains in our neck.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Directions for using this thread:

1) Open can

2) Dump worms all over ground

3) Run like hell




I agree with you too t-town..... I've witnessed a few of the things you mentioned...

If I ever had a KJ jump in to sing with me without asking?... I'd most likely turn around and say "Hey, buddy, put your name on the list and get in the rotation if you want to sing.... and if your names not on the slip, you don't get a mic"  LOL

I just don't see alot of this stuff at the place I've mostly went to the last couple years, I love the KJ's there.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Babs, it's just that....

If people go to sing, and pay money at a certain place for their food/alcohol while they are there, they want to have a good time. Not be faced with an attitude by the KJ. I've been to places that have bad KJ's.... I simply don't go back.

But I'm there for the fun of it, and I love to sing..... & since a KJ is getting PAID to make me and the others like what they're doing, I have the right to be a bit picky. And, FYI, no- I'm not a KJ, but sound systems are not totally foreign to me, I've been on stages enough in my life to be well aware that what the crowd hears (volume wise) is not what we hear on stage.  Be it a monitor speaker, or speakers all set the same.... if I can't hear myself, or the music, they need to adjust to what makes me comfie.  Because for my 3 minutes or so up there, it's my show... and the KJ is my sound man. That's the way I look at it. No, I don't tell people how to set their EQ, or effects.... if they are that lame with equipment, I wont be interested in going back.  Rules are good, everyone needs them.... but there's alot of whining and griping it seems that goes along with being a KJ, from what you read here. I've not seen that in real life, only here. IMO, there's nothing wrong with KJ's venting here, it's the place for it..... but it goes both ways.  No harm meant, when I mentioned the KJ's from here, and reading alot of their threads... honestly, you didn't even pop into my mind... so don't take it personal.

I'd like to see a really huge KS get together though...... I can't imagine all of you keeping quiet and not telling the one running the show how to do it.  :no:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Having been a karaoke singer a couple of years before I actually started in the business I saw alot of KJ's who did not have adequate skills in many areas. My business was formed when I finally got tired of looking for a decent place where I could go to sing.

There were several places that were really good but the KJ's would come and go, or the atmosphere of the bar, drink prices, or other factors made us go elsewhere. Here is a list of stuff that drove me into the Karaoke Business

Poor Sound Mix - too much music vs vocals or the reverse or muffled vocals etc.
Defective Equipment - includes crappy microphones, scratchy speakers also includes sticky song books etc.
Poor Music Selection or Good Selection but bad songbooks (couldn't find anything)
Poor Rotation Management
KJ Would not play customers discs, when they didn't have the song in their books
KJ Playing favorites or taking bribes. Singing too often themselves.

Saw alot of this in 2 years of going out 4-5 nights a week. Seemed like if the KJ did not care about sound mix, most if not all of the other stuff listed above was present in their shows as well. Sometimes you will find KJs that have all of these things present in their shows but they have a terrific personality and charisma and the customers keep on coming back anyway.

When I started my Karaoke Business I had a mission statement that included the following items. Every change I have made in my business over the past 8yrs has been filtered through this list to make sure it fit my business. Many ideas were never implemented because they did not mirror or fit with those items in the mission statement.

Good Atmosphere - Upscale Location, Good Drinks, Nice Folks and Lot's of Fun
Top Quality Equipment that is well maintained
Quality Music/Vocal Mix - Showcasing each and every singer
Fair Rotation - No favorites
Update Song Selection Regularly, and produce professional looking song books
Above All Have Fun

Many KJ's are not good business people and will never strive to be a true professional. This is true in many occupations or trades. You either strive to be professional or you don't.

Someone from this forum said it best. You either have it within you to aspire to be a professional or you don't

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Flipper,

That's a fantastic mission statement.  It would be great if every KJ would create a mission statement like yours and stick to it.
                   
                                                 Jackson

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Singing just for you

I have close to no knowledge about being a KJ, but this is probably one of the best ways we learn what to be, and what not to be Flipper.  The firsthand experience that gives us that certain element of sage.  Look at it this way, I've always believed (based on the way people treat clerks behind the retail counter at stores I've been to ~ which is often dehumanizing) that the best education regarding dealing with others, would be for all High School kids to put in just ONE holiday season in a dept store retail type setting as a clerk working the cash register.  It's a great way to see human nature, learn how to deal with a multitude of people, and it took ME being in retail, to realize that "retailers that even sell a bagel" aren't caged animals, (yes even I was guilty of not considering the person behind the counter when I was young)... Being a customer that experiences a bad clerk, or singer experiencing a bad KJ, teaches us what NOT to be.... Being at places with lousy entertainment similarly teaches us firsthand what "lousy" means not just to us, but to many others as well.... I'd imagine you that are KJ's, or even in my case, being a musician, taught me alot about how ugly drunks can be, I never thought *I* was that obnoxious until I saw people that I realized were acting like me when I was drunk.. It took them bothering the hell out've me to realize this too !! It made me realize that working a bar (back before so many laws restricting alcohol intake) was ALOT more of a babysitting task (for slovenly people that reduce themselves to kindergarten behaviour level in lieu of alcohol consumption)..  We learn alot by being in areas of our interest, and experiencing what sucks !  It's all "Do unto others"... religious or not, this is how we learn (hopefully)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I've actually put the mic down in mid sentence, told the kj to keep on singing, and left the singing area.

Everyone there was stunned, as the kj freaked out too.

It was a place I was well known at, and when the manager came and asked me what the problem was, as I was gettin' all my stuff together, I told them that that kj just ruined what I waited around for an hour and a half to do... my five minutes.

Was that so much to ask for? He didn't think so either, and the KJ was warned, and even let go a few months later for OTHER types of improper showmanship.

The real problem is the kj was a friend of mine. She didn't think that she was doing anything wrong... just having fun.

THAT was the problem. She wasn't THINKING about anything other than her own fun.

Just caught this thread, and yeah, it definately goes both ways for K.J. and singer critisms.

E.J., going back to Babs' thread, we were mostly just critizing the "arrogance and naricissism" of certain singers, if that had anything to do with your first post. Making the customer happy and running a good show is definately the goal for most of us, including me, so I hope any of our "venting" about certain situations wasn't misinterpreted as "it's all about me", etc. .

Going back to the bad K.J. thing:
I went  to a place a while back that had gotten rid of a K.J. I really liked, and so they had someone new. Decided to turn in a slip to give it a try. Big mistake. This table of young drunk types were actually going up to his booth multiple times and fooling around with sign-up slips while he was B.S.-ing with other people. A girl from that table sang about three times before he called my name. When he finally called me up, I gave him my disc, and then the song plays for about twenty seconds and then just stops. He said something must be wrong with my almost-new C.D., and I say let me see it, and then he gives it to me while I'm still standing there with mic. in hand.
Here's what kills me: He then puts on filler music and says "I'll be right back" and goes right to the bathroom! I looked at the disc and it had no scratches or smudges. He comes back three minutes later, I hand him my disc without cleaning it at all, and this time it plays all the way through without a hitch. I guessing that a wrong button got hit and my disc got blamed. He even advertises as a profesional D.J./ K.J. service, and has a nice website .

Kappy I agree with you. Sometimes the best way to learn what your customers want is to be one yourself first.

When I was a machine tool salesman years ago I would solve some very difficult problems in machining applications by completely bypassing the engineers, and shop formen by requesting to speak with the machinist that was actually running the machine. He was the one that dealt with this problem every single day and generally knew the most about his application what needed to be done to solve it. His problem is that the engineering department and his direct supervisor would not listen to his suggestions and his ideas were being ignored. I would listen to his suggestions write them down and then recommend them to his supervisors and they would implement them and the problem got solved.

My point is sometimes we just need to experience firsthand what our customers are experiencing before we can fix our problems. Of course we must be willing to commit ourselves to caring enough to take the time to improve and perfect our craft.

Some folks just don't care. As big dog says...eventually the cream always rises to the top! That is true in all professions.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

My opinion is that if you are a KJ or want to be one there is a tremedous wealth of information that can be gleened from the posts made in this forum. I truly value the info posted here and I have taken many ideas here and infused them into my show. I know KS forum has helped me become a better KJ.

Sometimes I think it's almost theraputic in nature as I can come here and read the posts from someone who is experiencing the same problems that I have in dealing with bars and customers in general. Sometimes I can give words of encouragement and sometimes I need to be encouraged.

Venting is just that Venting....I for one am happy to have a place to Vent

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Amen, Flipper!

Most of the KJ's posts that were being refered to earlier in this thread were venting.

Unfortunately you will not see many posts about the 98% of the customers that we are thrilled to serve on a weekly basis and really are a very welcome addition to our shows. Let's face it Without them we do not have a show.

Many of the shows you will go to as a customer you will never see or hear the conversations or problems that go on behind the scenes between customers and KJ's.  As KJ's we do our best to shield our customers from this BS....but trust me when I say, it happens all the time. The better equipped we are to handle the situation the less you as a customer will ever see.

By venting here we can also gain better understanding of how to deal quickly with these situations before they get out of hand. There is a great deal of experience here that we can draw from to learn how to handle problems when they come at us.
The last thing we want to do is vent our frustrations with our valued customers.

I spent about 20 years in bars before becoming a KJ. Man did I get an education when I started working in one  OMG  I had no idea what those folks went through. I gained a whole new appreciation for KJ's and Bar staff. It took me almost 3 years to get used to dealing with drunks and the whole bar scene dynamic.

All I can say is that the stories you read here are True. Many of them fall into the "Been There. Done That" category for me.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

I've mentioned to another KJ here that I don't post certain things in the public forums as one never knows who is reading (and how they are going to take it).  How prophetic!   If  were going to vent it would be in the KJ forum anyway...

I was saddened last night after coming home from a small but fun show and pulling up this particular subject....   I understand singers have their preferences, heck, I'm a singer too, but..... some of the complaints are subjective!  Yes, there are some things KJ's and singers do that are just plain annoying and try as I might not to repeat the behavior I do.

*We recently went on vacation and they played filler music.  I personally don't care for it but I don't think that means the guy was a bad KJ, he was great!   He was a friendly person who made each person feel special, his regulars and us...

*I didn't see him mixing our voices and I have never seen that around here but I know my hubby's voice and he sounded like my hubby.  I actually like his voice and don't need it to be "enhanced".  

*The KJ ran a linear rotation, just like we do, but if he hadn't I'm sure he would have explained how he does it if I had a question and I'm quite sure I still would have stayed!  

*Before we started KJ'ing for someone else we were wannabe KJ's.

*Before we bought our own stuff we were wannabe KJ owners...  

*I will always be a wannabe millionaire....

These are just a few things that came up in the topic that I don't feel there is a right or a wrong.  There may be a right and a wrong for each individual but just because they don't do it "my way" doesn't mean they are wrong.

We are all just trying to make it through this life with as much joy as possible.  I feel I've found a way to put a smile on some people's face, and mine, by providing karaoke as I would like it.  The smile may not be on your face because you may like it another way but I'm sure there is someone out there that can put that smile on your face!  Enjoy!

Now I'll duck for cover,
Susie

P.S.  Although some KJ's suggest this not be done...  We have actually made friends out of many of our singers....  And no, they DO NOT get special treatments at our shows....

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You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

The place I go singing has Karaoke two nights a week, Fridays and Saturdays. Saturdays is hosted by my friend and Friday nights by this woman. She is one of worst KJs I have seen and I can't believe she is still doing it for so many years. Most of the crowds on Friday nights are working people who show up to drink but sing once they get there, not regulars on Saturday nights.

My peaves about her:

She doesn't keep an orderly rotation. She keeps slips and just picks up whatever slip that is in front of her and announces that person. Sometimes people sing every 7 or 8 songs, sometime it's 20-30. It's not unsual to see people singing out of rotation all the time.

She doesn't substitute new singers after a certain number of people. So rotation is as long as the number slips, regardless of how long you have been there. There were times when I got 1 song in 3 hours.

She sings almost every or every other rotation, ragardless of how many people are in rotation.

She dresses up in some god aweful get ups for hosting. One day she wore a silver nurse's uniform with short skirt and fishnet stocking.  :shock:

She doesn't pay attention to singers. She never adjusts volumes, or god forbid, effects. She just puts it on and walks away.

She doesn't know how to skip singers. If the next singer is not ready, often she will put on filler music and waits, up to like 5-10 mins. Then if no show, only then she will skip and go to next singer.

Sometimes she will put on filler music and expect people to dance. If they don't, she still leaves the music on until the song ends before calling the next singer.

Mind you, she has a nice personality, I just don't think she's a good KJ.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Someone should offer a certification course: KJ 101, the how bout Rotation Management 101, 202, 303, Mixology, Public Speaking, Public Communications, Game Show Hosting, and for your final disertation:   ADVANCED MC TECHNIQUES! DId I miss anythng???

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

very near to what you are asking

http://members.cox.net/pasystem1/

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott