Karaoke Forums

and another one. (Sticky return?)

I let the worst singers sing as much as everybody else.    I'm just saying, I have seen it happen a whole bunch of times.   The crowd thins if too many people are bad.    So if the bar owner sees people leaving like the place is on fire, all he sees is a wallet with legs headed toward the door.    They don't leave it on the bar and come back later to pick it up, when it's MT.    

Can a bunch of bad singers ruin your night?     MOST definitely.     That's when you keep yourself in the rotation, singing upbeat rock songs to try and compensate.    Even out the highs and lows.    It's the non-singers that will leave.   That's usually the bulk of your paying customers.    The other singers are use to hearing them.

If a bar manager doesn't want a particular person to sing, they can tell them.  Yes there are some people who drive people away, we have a couple but they want to sing fine.  but if the bar doesn't like it let them give them the boot.  Regulars usually just leave the room and come back when they're done, but for someone just walking in, I can see them walking right back out and ergo losing business.  But to me that's the bar's decision and I will respect it.  No singer is worth losing a gig over.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

This is what your effects on the board are for bring the singers volume down a bit get a nice juicy effect going and make em' sound ya know sort of FUNKY!!!  LMAO

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ROBDOG *WOOF WOOF*

Call me a primadonna I guess, but am I the only one here who sees that it is not the singer who has the problem but the fact that Southpaw runs a lousy rotation?


That would bother me too.  Anytime I'm at a show and I see someone sing twice before I go once and I'm going to say something to the KJ as well.  


Again, Why would you do that?  New singers go to the end of the line.  Why should he have to wait if he's been at the show all night so that some Johnny-come-lately can slide in ahead of him?  Sounds like you have an axe to grind with this guy and you're just screwing him over to hack him off.


Once again--this is Southpaw running a crap rotation.  I'd be HIGHLY ticked off if I was due up in the rotation and the KJ just pulled three other NEW singers because they were signed up to sing songs he wanted to hear.  Sounds like you give new singers (who have been spending their time and money elsewhere) way more preference that the singers who have been at your show supporting the bar all night long.  At my shows, at closing time given the choice between a new singer or someone who's been there, I tell the new singer that they just gotta get there earlier if they want to sing.  Besides, if it's the end of the night anyway, what's the big deal if you "throw cold water" on the crowd?  They're supposed to be leaving anyway, and that would make it much easier for the bar staff to do their job at closing time.  

So, I gotta side with the "Primadonna" here.  He was absolutely right and southpaw is wrong.  Run a fair rotation and this problem never would have arisen.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

Call me a primadonna I guess, but am I the only one here who sees that it is not the singer who has the problem but the fact that Southpaw runs a lousy rotation?


That would bother me too.  Anytime I'm at a show and I see someone sing twice before I go once and I'm going to say something to the KJ as well.  


Again, Why would you do that?  New singers go to the end of the line.  Why should he have to wait if he's been at the show all night so that some Johnny-come-lately can slide in ahead of him?  Sounds like you have an axe to grind with this guy and you're just screwing him over to hack him off.


Once again--this is Southpaw running a crap rotation.  I'd be HIGHLY ticked off if I was due up in the rotation and the KJ just pulled three other NEW singers because they were signed up to sing songs he wanted to hear.  Sounds like you give new singers (who have been spending their time and money elsewhere) way more preference that the singers who have been at your show supporting the bar all night long.  At my shows, given the choice between a new singer or someone who's been there, I tell the new singer that they just gotta get there earlier if they want to sing.  Besides, if it's the end of the night anyway, what's the big deal if you "throw cold water" on the crowd?  They're supposed to be leaving anyway, and that would make it much easier for the bar staff to do their job at closing time.  

So, I gotta side with the "Primadonna" here.  He was absolutely right and southpaw is wrong.  Run a fair rotation and this problem never would have arisen.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

There are just some people that God couldn't make happy.    When you have applied an overdose of alcohol, judgement is impaired.    How many times can you put new singers at the end of the line and still not put a new singer in front of an old one?   I don't get it.   Every bar has one cronic complainer.   They would complain if they were the only singer.   Someone would still be in front of them and still singing before them.    If the rotation is fair for everybody else and noone else is complaining, who's right?    Tell loser to shut up or fly.    :wave:   If he was that good, we'd be singing his hit songs.    

If Bob puts a song in and he want 20 people (20 different singers) to sing with him, I don't care, it's Bob's song and Bob's choice and it came off of Bob's pile of requests.      

If Mary wants Bob to sing a duet with her, I don't care, it's Mary's song and her choice and it came off of her pile of requests.     Bob sang his song and Mary sang her song.    Nobody sang twice.     Nobody got skipped.   If you want 20 drunks screwing up your song, it's not my decision.   I don't care if Mary and Bob are married.   Why does it matter if they are together or not?    They have two individual brains.   Two piles of requests.    They are two individual singers.    And should be treated as such.    What if they were Siamese twins?    LMAO    Maybe Mary lacks the confidence to sing by herself.   And her taste in music isn't the same as Bobs.    SO WHAT.    They are spending money together.   And maybe they come every week.     Even if they don't, I don't care.    Everyone is equal to me.   Every person in that bar is an individual, one separate being.    You can't play God and tell them who to sing with.    And penalise them for it if they do.    It's not up to me to tell someone who they can or cannot sing with.   This is where some of you drop the ball.    :yes:    Your rotation does suck.    

If the 20 people all have slips in the rotation (20 different singers), when it's their turn to sing, the song will come off of their individual pile of slips.    One slip per singer and I don't care how many others they wanted to sing with them, it was their song, their choice and it came from their pile of requests.    Noone sang twice and nobody was skipped.

I start spacing new singers in between the old ones, depending on how fast they start coming in.    It may end up new, old, new, old, etc.    It may be 2-3 more.     Some times the last new singer may still be 45 min. to 1 hour away from singing.    It's the same for you, when you walk in late.     It's always as fair as I can make it.     Nobody ever sings two songs in the rotation.    Not my wife, kids, me or the bar owner.   I don't play favorites with anybody.   I do try to get everyone in to sing at least one song.   But I'll shut them off and tell them they were lucky to get one.    You're not going to spend your money somewhere else and come in very late and expect the same or more than everyone else.

I had to shut off some new singers tonight, never saw them before.    You want them to come back, but they wasted their night somewhere else, not me.    They came up after the books were picked up 1 hour and 15 min. before quitting time.     Too many singers to get them in.   They came too late.

I very seldom have people complain.    Because of new singers, you may not follow the same person all night, but you will sing once in every rotation.    Just like everyone else.    You are not skipped if you don't follow Bob all night.    And Bob will not sing more than you.

EVERY KARAOKE JUNKY KNOWS THIS.    The bottom line is, if you get there early you have a better chance of singing more songs than someone that comes later.   I cannot control the number of singers.   I can make absolutely sure that you and everyone else will sing once in every rotation.   No more, no less.    If you have a problem with this..... You are the problem.    

One more thing.     I don't care what song you want to sing.     If the rotation plays like this all night, oh well I guess it does.    Who cares?    Slow country, hard rock, oldie, ballad, fast country, gospel, pop, rockabilly, soul, southern rock, whatever.   No set pattern is OK with me.   I won't switch anyones position to try to play a set.   They get played as they come.   What mood is it going to ruin?    It's karaoke not a national radio broadcast where you're selling air time for thousands of dollars based on your play list demographics.    It's based on the singers request play list.   It's karaoke, that's the mood.   Dance when you can.   Sit and drink the rest of the time.    If you just want to dance and you don't sing, what the $#%&% are you doing there in the first place.   That's why God invented DJs and dance clubs.   People are coming to meet other people, because karaoke draws a crowd of usually non rowdy types.   Everyone will choose the place they want to go to meet people, whether a dance club, karaoke, live band, square dance.   But why do you expect or try to be all of these.   It's karaoke and you just can't do it.

For the first premadonna, I would find a woman in the club who would gladly kick HER (@$%&#!), then buy her a drink afterwards.
For the second premadonna, I would gladly kick HIS skinny (@$%&#!), then buy myself a drink (preferably vodka straight up).  Then possibly demand a ride home from the same (@$%&#!) since he helps out the bar in that way.  To be sure I got my point across, I may choose to sing loudly in the car the whole way home to the radio without taking a break.  :dancin:

For the first premadonna, I would find a woman in the club who would gladly kick HER (@$%&#!), then buy her a drink afterwards.
For the second premadonna, I would gladly kick HIS skinny (@$%&#!), then buy myself a drink *preferably vodka straight up*.  Then possibly demand a ride home from the same (@$%&#!) since he helps out the bar in that way.  To be sure I got my point across, I may choose to sing loudly in the car the whole way home to the radio without taking a break.  :dancin:

tell them to do what I did - go out and buy their own system and they can  be a star in their own living room!! Just teasing!! Drea

They will do exactly that.   They will be out undercutting you with their livingroom system.

I'm new to all of this but it brings up something I've come up against and I have never been entirely sure that what I did was right.

There seems to be some disagreement as to what constitutes a "fair rotation".  I had thought that maybe this was pretty cut and dried.  Apparently not.

The way I've been doing it is to try to keep everybody in the same order.  If someone new comes in they become the next person to sing after the last person in the rotation and that becomes their place.  I have heard some grumbling that it takes too long for the new people to get into the rotation.

Is there any kind of consensus on this?  Or does everyone have their own rule and it's okay as long as its applied consistently?

Larry

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"Life is too short for diet soda and lite beer"

Larry - that is a can of worms, but is a highly discussed topic on this forum from time to time. You can do a search of "Rotations" and find a wealth of info.

For me it really depends on the evening. Less than say 15 singers I put them in at the end of the rotation and they stay there. If I have say 20 or more then I work them in about every 3rd singer. throughout the rotation and they stay there.

Again it depends on the gig. One of my gigs has high traffic due to multiple bars in the area and they all offer karaoke. I use the above method and nobody complains.

Except of course the primadonnas

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

No real right or wrong way.  I don't like to stick all at the end because then you get a huge group of new singers that can get rather large & the people that have been there all night would have to wait that much longer through all the newbies.  I intermix them in with the old, the wait is still there regardless, but this way gets the singers that have been there at least coming up rather than waiting through a bunch of singers that haven't been there.  Others don't see it that way & that's ok, however you run your rotation, make sure you are consistant & don't break the rules you set.  
Like duets, I allow 1 person per rotation, if they sing in a duet - that's both of their turn.  Some see it as it's 2 separate spots & while that is true, I believe customer perception is strong enough that they would see it as 1 person getting up at least twice (maybe more depending on who they sing with) & possibly twice (or more) before their spot.  I used to allow it when I started but people would abuse it
Bob
Tom - Mary
John - Mary
Mary - Bob
Etc... yes this could be an exageration, but i've seen this happen before which is why I eliminated the option.  1 time per person per round.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Ibistir, you hit it on the nail when you say consistancy.  Whether "at the end" method as some do or the "insert" method, as long as it is consistant, it is what you prefer to do.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Have had a chance to read everone's replies this evening.  You all have a different idea of what Karaoke should be, or what a primadonna singer actually is.
In my own experiences, people, whether they come to sing or not, are a part of your clientele, or following, what have you.  Over the last 10 years, I have had many couples, middle age, older, what ever you want to call them attend my jobs.  Not just once in a while, but sometimes more regular than the junkies that follow.  They make it a point to show up to LISTEN to the singers,  and to give positive feedback to the ones they really enjoy hearing.  In some of these posts for this particular topic you have, (some of you) talked about playing Karaoke songs, DJ'ing.
Also playing dance music.  I really have always tried to stick to Karaoke music, because it is advertised as such on marquis.  (Another great post to discuss, in my opinion!  How many of your jobs are advertised?)  Anyway, one thing I have found when I don't have a lot of singers and some people have a music request, is to put in a multiplex disc, we all know what they are!   By using these occasionally when someone wants a song, but doesn't want to sing, ends up getting someone up there to sing because they see the vocals and then "bingo"  "I could sing that song", and before you know it, you created another junkie.  It was their first time and I always make sure I let them know they did a great job.  It adds to that following.  As far as those older folks, just throw in a nice dance song for them every once in a while IF there are no singers, and you also made them happy.  I work hard at keeping those familiar faces happy without jeopardizing my reputation or fair Karaoke.
And as for the Primadonna singers - Well, you will never get rid of them.  Face it - it is because of them we all are still doing Karaoke.  If our following didn't think they were who they are singing, we probably wouldn't have any singers at all.  I think 90% of singers think they are better than anyone else in the bar.

Wooooooohoooooooooo!!  I'm unique!!!!!  I know there are tons of folks who sing better than me...  Wait a minute...maybe I'm just WEIRD

Either way I just sing to have FUN...and having the small town advantage when I actually used to get to sing karaoke...I never had to fight a huge crowd rotation.  After reading the posts on this thread I now have even more respect for KJ's!   It would be tough to try to please everyone...sheesh..

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[glow=violet] **Sing like nobody's listening...live like there's no tomorrow**[/glow]

It is hard to please everyone.  I never said I was great either, and with  20 plus singers, your right.  You don't get much singing.  But I sure enjoy getting new people involved.