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What are your thoughts?  Just CURIOUS!!!!
When you have individuals that work for you, and a Bar Owner, or perhaps clientele that insist on a certain individual to do shows.
This has happened too many times to count.   Had a few guys that were good in different ways work for me.  One had a great personality, another mixed stupendously, (according to singers) another just plain had fun with the crowd.  
A bar owner asked one time if I could just send a particular KJ to do a job.  It wasn't feasible.  And of course I asked why!  I was told that this particular person who filled in really kept the crowd entertained.  But on the other hand when I attended the job and over saw what was going on, the KJ in question had more singers, better singers, and a great following.
So tell me! (Trying to keep this short!) Wouldn't more singers, more spent money, and a following that stays ALL evening be more important, then just the few of what I could see (the bar owners friends).  These are the ones that wanted a certain KJ, but at the same time didn't patronize the bar as often as the regulars.
If I didn't think the KJ was good enough, he would not have been there in the first place.  I certainly would not jeopardize a job out of spite.

It would be best to pose this question to the bar owner and see what his opinion is. Give him both scenarios and then let him choose from there. They all tend to lean towards what his or her favorite customers wishes are and rarely look beyond the end of their nose in these situations. But it's worth a try.

Try to get him to see it from another perspective than his favorite customers see it and see if he agrees with you.

Some of the guys that run multiple KJ's here may be able to assist you better as I have only had just a handful of people fill in or run my shows over the years.

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Scott

My ex wife told a bar owner exactly that.   She told them we could send a trained monkey.

Back to the real world.     They pay the money.     If you went to get the job and they thought they were paying for a really hot looking babe and ugly kid joe shows up, it could tend to be bait and switch.     We usually tried to send the same people with the same system, to each gig.   I have 2 gigs now and the owners flat out told me if I can't be there they don't even want karaoke.    It's their money, don't they have a say in the matter?    If it was your money, what would you say?     I know how you feel, but what would you do?    Bottom line is, do you want the money or not?

it's a problem! I USED to charge differently depending on WHO ran the gig. One of my ex-local competitors had a bad habit of starting the gig off, running it great and making the place just soar above the clouds...

then he'd bring in someone else while he was pursuing his own private fun. The show suffered because everyone was expecting THAT show. Now his replacement did an okay job, but you could feel the difference. I personally felt that the owner had EVERY right to be upset over this. Why should the owner pay the exact same rate to have someone else run it... especially someone that wasn't as talented in running a well-ran show.

It is hard to find good employees that you can trust with the equipment and
be loyal enough to show up to all the gigs and not quit after a few months. I know it is
hard to hire a good employee you know will stick with you and do the same gig forvever. So I think it is great you have found more than one.

If possible I would not switch up your KJs. People get attached to their KJs and don't want a different one all the time. Is there a reason you'd have more than one person
working this venue? I know everyone needs a sub once in a while - vacations etc...
But why would you have 3 different KJs working the same job? Are you trying to keep them all working equally?

I'm taking a vacation soon and will miss 5 gigs at the same place. In 4 years I think I've only missed 2 gigs in total. I know the regulars are going to give this guy a hard time even though he is more than qualified and is very entertaining. people get attached and don't like change.

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You know what is funny. A bar owner doesn't like people telling him how to run his business, why do they think they know how to run ours? Most of the time we have more contact with the patrons than they do. You would think they would understand we have insight on what is going on.

This is kind of off topic, but this is how stubborn my bar owner is. I drink water and coffee when I work. I have been doing this for years in this same bar. One week the water tasted like pee. This went on for about 2 weeks. I wouldn't drink it nor would anyone else. I drank pop instead. I told the bar owner about it. He agrued with me that there was nothing wrong with the taste of the water and no one had complained to him. I told them they complained to me, with a smile. The funny part is when he saw I wouldn't drink it and went for pop instead he suggested I take water from the back sink to see if it was any better. God forbid he have to spend an extra few cents for me to drink his pop because I get my drinks free.  LMAO

I also suggested he sell bottled water for the non drinkers to make an extra buck. Of
course it wasn't his idea, so he wouldn't listen. Give it a couple months and will start selling it and it will become his idea.  LMAO

My point being - it seems most bar owners have this I know everything mentality.

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But they do have a right to say who can or cannot work in their bar.  If they don't like a particular host you put in, they have they right to either have you replace them or replace your company altogether.  I've had to get rid of a couple hosts due to the fact that the bar manager & sometimes the owner would 'strongly recommend' it - basically meaning if you want to keep the gig, you better do it.
A club has a certain right to an extent to expect a certain way for their 'hired' help - be it their own people or their entertainment...to perform.  If they want you to disallow songs with profanity - you do it, it goes for other things as well.  If they are being too unreasonable, then you have the right to say yea or nay & continue doing the show they way you want & risk being fired or you comply & continue the gig or you quit.  As long as what they request doesn't hurt MY reputation, then I have no problems working with the bar on certain things.

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I got a phone call tonight.     They play this bar two nights week.    The 20 year old daughter of the owner wants to run the bar.   With all of her no nothing business experience.    She's home from college for the summer, I think.    If she didn't quit.   She wants to get rid of the karaoke one of the nights.    She went to a bar that had a young kid 23, (I think she has the hots for him), entertaining the crowd with his act (not karaoke).    She says the place was packed.    So she wants to bring him in once a month.    Eliminate 4 steady nights of (bread & butter) entertainment to have him one night a month of (cake icing).   Daddy can't hurt her feelings.     When she kills the crowd and all of the hired help, can daddy pull money out of her butt, when the bar is ready to belly up?    Most of his help told him if she is going to make the decisions, they are leaving.   I smell a bar for sale very soon.      All the skill in the world won't help a single KJ, when you go up against no brainers.    I can guarantee the only business experience she has is making money for the cell phone company.   She's not even old enough to legally be in a bar, yet.

This is a VERY problematic issue.  The other day I was bemoaning my perception that there are very few professional bar owner/operators anymore and this discussion confirms that.

My duo plays in regularly (once a month, 9 months out of the year) at a local bar.  This is a place that used to have bands every Friday and Saturday night. It was always packed.  The owner ran into some problems with a crabby neighbor, lost her caberet license and finally got it back after two years of very hard work.  While she was trying to get her license back a lot of the regular crowd, people who wanted live enterainment, went elsewhere.  Now she's got the license back but she's afraid she'll lose it again so she only books music sporadically.

She books us for a monthly gig about 4 months ahead of time.  She also books a karaoke show once in a while and another band once in awhile.  But she doesn't do it on any kind of regular schedule.

The owner is a very good business woman but is blind on the issue of booking her entertainment.  I have been telling her that if she doesn't want enterainment every week that's okay but she ought to have a plan and she ought to be consistent so that her patrons that are looking for live enterainment know that they should show up on the first Saturday night of the month or whatever schedule she chooses.

My point has been that she can't expect people to come in for the live music if no one knows it's there.  And that's the other problem.  She refuses to publicize the fact that a band or karaoke show will be there on a particular date.  We always put up posters but that only reaches the regulars.  We also put a notice in the newspaper and our schedule is always on our website.  That reaches our regular fans but really doesn't do as much as it should to let her former regulars know that she has entertainment again and when it will be.

Now we have another issue.  One night when my duo wasn't booked anywhere my KJ partner and I did a karaoke show there.  It was our first show and we did it for free just to get a feel for whether we thought we wanted to continue.

We are both regulars at the bar and we really talked up the show to every one.  The result was that the place was packed for the first time in quite a while.  Everyone had a great time.  And the owner got a lot of terrific comments about our show.  I was there when a number of the comments were made.

So we talked to her about another show.  She won't hear of it and doesn't care how well we did.  She has friends, a married couple, who KJ.  She books them in there several times a year.  She does it for two reasons: 1)they are cheap; and 2)about 30% of the time they bring with them a group of their 30 something friends who spend a lot of money.  On those occasions they take over the bar.  All the regulars stay home because it's too loud, they don't like the songs these people are singing and the "followers" themselves are very loud and obnoxious when they have been overserved.

So for about 4 or 5 really good paydays a year, this owner is willing to sacrifice the business of her regulars (the people who are really paying the bills) and potential loss of that regular business of those people decide they are fed up with having to give up "their place" every couple of months or so.

In my opinion she's sacrificing the long-term health of her business for some short-term gains.  But she's the boss and it's her decision.

Now I've taken a very long time to get to the salient point here; the boss is always the boss.  If she wants us to play a certain song 6 times a night we do.  If she demands that we play "her" song RIGHT NOW we do.  If she decides to cancel because it's snowing outside and she's hung over from the night before, we're out a gig and a payday.

It's always been interesting to me that bar owners who know nothing about music or enterainment suddenly become empressarios the first time they book a band or KJ.  They can't or won't trust the pros (us) to do what we do best.  But the boss is always the boss and if we want to work we just have to accept it.  So we do.  Sometimes it's not easy but we do.  It may not be right, but it's reality so we can discuss it until the cows come home and it won't change.

As Bob Dylan said a long time ago, "You gotta serve somebody."

Larry

Yes it can be a can of worms, but I have found that it may actually help the bar to switch up KJs.  The wife and I have another couplke that works shows for us, they are 10 years younger and draw a different crowd.  We each have a following of some different people.  The older more subdued crownd like the wife and I, and the young 20 somethings, like our other hosts.

As for dealing with bar owners, I make SURE that they know you have the right to substuite a host when needded.  In fact there is a clause in my contract that states that.  NOw if you are going to loose a gig becasue the bar owner wants a certain KJ, I would try my best to please bar owner, rather than loose the gig.  Perhaps have him pay a premium for that certain KJ

How can so many young people be working in these bars?  I know of a place who's business also went  down the toilet letting young kids run it.  They tend bar, wait tables etc, (if that is what you want to call it).  Actually you can't get waited on at all. That is what killed them.  These kids are too busy flirting, or taking care of their friends to take care of the real customers.  The ones there for Karaoke, eating and drinking the entire night.  Spending way more money.  Have watched so many people get up and walk out.  Couldn't get waited on.  Came back a couple times but eventually were gone for good.  There goes your crowd.  Then your left with the kids
who only act up, and really don't care about the Karaoke except to choose funky songs and scream into the mics.  The clientele you had went somewhere else.
I believe once you lose your crowd, you don't get them back.  They will follow you to other places you play, but not that one.  Have seen it way too many times.

You R 100% correct about the hired help.     We have had many people complain to us over the years, about everything that can go wrong in a bar.    Paying customers and I don't care what they are shopping for.   Whether it's food, clothes, alcohol, etc.   Nobody wants to wait anymore for anything.    People are there "shopping"  and they want to give you their money as fast as they can.    You need to have hired help there to take the money as fast as they want to give it.     I don't want to be in a long line at a grocery store, Walmart or a bar/restaurant.   We played at a bar that was always pretty busy.   The bartender wanted to be the only one on duty so she could get all of the tips.    She would be flirting, yacking on the phone and not waiting on the customers.   My ex and her daughter use to bus the tables around us, just to get the stuff out of the way.    People came up and told us they couldn't get waited on.    20 minutes is way tooo long to leave anyone hanging.   For anything.     We eventually quit them.   Within a month of quitting, her boyfriend stabbed someone.      Glad my name wasn't associated with that bar.    

[highlight=crimson]EVERYTHING[/highlight] that goes wrong in that bar has a direct impact on [highlight=crimson]your[/highlight] reputation.   And [highlight=crimson]your[/highlight] INCOME.  These bar owners lose a lot of money by having p**S poor help.    Your lose gigs because bar owners are Friggin' IDIOTS.     I have seen many people leave bars because of no service.    If I see it's going to happen, I tell somebody to get crackin'.    Most business owners, not just bars, don't know how to make all the money they could be making.

I just lost my Friday gig to a DJ.   The owner wants to try 80's Music.    First of all you need a dance floor.     He has a 10 by 10 floor, but it has 12 tables on it.   There is no place to put the 12 tables so the dance floor can be used.    I give it 3 weeks.    We will see if I'm right.    I don't think he wanted to pay me $350 a week for two nights.     He would rather pay two different people and not make as much.   Bar owner logic at it's finest.   I'm starting a new place on Thursday.   This owner seems to be a little ahead of the curve.   So we'll see.

Back to a particular KJ.    I didn't name my business KARAOKE by RALPH, for one very good reason.    I was thinking big.    If it's K by R, nobody else can be Ralph.    Right?     So if Ralph takes on more jobs with 2 systems, it's not K by R, anymore.    It's K by R and some other ying yang(s).  Ralph, even though he is very good at his craft, cannot be in two different places at once.     So my business name sounds like it's a company, not an individual.     Companies have more than one employee.    More than one qualified employee.    

The Bar owner can not be behind the bar 24/7, can he?    He has employees, too.    Can you tell him who you want bartending on the night you will be there?    I highly doubt it.    So now what?    If the bartender on duty is a jerk and hurting the business income, yours and theirs.... then we should be able to demand a change, right?   I don't think it will happen.     I don't tell you who to have bartending and cooking and waitressing, do I?    Don't tell me who you want for a KJ.    Especially, if I think they are more than qualified to handle your dump, unlike your pitiful staff.    

Will this help you handle the situation?    

That is so true.  We as KJ's have a lot of obstacles to face.  But yet why is it so important for us to make sure we please all.  If a bar owner complains to me about a certain singer who has complained about not singing enough, (and it usually one of their own friends) I have to feel obligated to explain a rotation to them.  And why can't they understand that I do everything in my power to keep that crowd coming again and again.  That is how I kept the jobs I have had.  By catering to the individuals that are constant.  Not the ones who went to a shot and beer bar first (because it was cheap) then come in to patronize their friends bar and think they can steal the show.  And why can't they understand that a lot of the losses of a crowd was because of their own employees, worse yet, themselves because of the service.  You are soooo- right!  They are idiots.  

I think they should have a forum just for bar owners to read.  Maybe if they heard all of our stories about how to run their business they might get a clue.  Then again not!!!

I don't think they are as observant as we are.  And someone else said on here, they don't believe you when you tell them someone came to YOU to complain.

My fair rotation is what's keeping the paying customers coming back.    It is good for my reputation and yours.   If you do not care about your reputation, don't help to screw up mine.    Dispite what you may think, we both make a living from our reputations.      


If they still insist on bumping their buds, now is the time you need to have the phone number for the crappiest, most rotton KJ you know and give it to the bar owner and tell him, he will gladly substitute for you.   Then get a job at the closest bar to him on the same night.   Even if you have to do it for less money.

The bar owners would need someone to read the bartender/owner post to them.

Good One!!!! I bet your right!

kjsrbest,

About the "kids running things" question; a great observation!

A couple of months ago my duo played a place for the first time.  When our manager set up the gig she gave them a copy of our CD and our bio sheet which tells a lot about who we are and what we do (classic rock & roll, 50s through 80s)  The gig was set up by an employee who had the responsibility for hiring the entertainment.

Toward the end of the first set our manager was approached by a guy who was a bit shy of 30.  He told her that he was the owner and that we needed to start playing a lot newer stuff.  She then repeated that to me.  Well, our first set is pretty mellow.  We keep it that way because it's early and we like to build our momentum.  So I wasn't worried because I knew the next set was more up tempo and energetic.  We did one more song which was "Happy Birthday" for one of the patrons who was celebrating.

Despite the low-key tone of the first set everyone seemed to be having a good time.  It was a mostly younger crowd but I could see a lot of them singing along or tapping their feet, etc.  There were 3 people nearer my age at the other end of the bar who were obviously enjoying themselves.

While we were on our break, our manager discovered that the owner was actually a manager.  We were dicussing how to handle things when this manager again approached her and rudely ordered him to join him and two bartenders in the office.  He also ordered her to bring our set list with her.

The conclusion of that meeting was that the manager determined we were all wrong for that club and that we should pack up and leave.  He did agree to pay us for the full gig.  

No one had left, no one appeared to be having a bad time, as far as I could determine no one complained.  In fact some people were having a good time.  The manager simply looked at our set list and said that he didn't want to hear any of those songs and that we had to leave.

So we did.  Before we had even finished packing up the resident DJ was in his booth cranking out whatever loud toneless stuff people under 30 listen to these days.  

I went around to several tables of people who seemed to be enjoying themselves and told them we had been asked to leave.  I wanted to explain why we were packing up.  I didn't say anything more.  In answer to a couple of questions I referred them to the manger.  By the time we had gone only one table of people I had talked to were still there.

I still don't know exactly what happened.  From our vantage point it appeared that the manager simply decided he didn't like us.  Our performance should not have come as a surprise to anyone.  After all they had our CD and our bio sheet.  The songs on the CD are songs we do regularly.

I have never had that happen before and I hope it will not happen again.  But my impression was that the not-yet-30 manager decided to throw his weight around.  It wasn't because it was necessary.  It wasn't because it needed to be done.  It was just because he could.

Larry

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If she doesn't want regular - steady nights of entertainmet & won't advertise, I wouldn't bother trying to convince her.  Look for another club!

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