Karaoke Forums

  Well, it's been awhile since I started a topic, ( actually, I think this is my first time....senior moment) But I encountered a "situation" where I just know all of you will have some "sound" advice, so.... here goes.
  A very close friend of mine ( over 16 years ) does a karaoke show every Sunday at a local bar. Just about every Sunday, I go to catch his show, and of course I sing in rotation like everyone else. Here's the problem. The owners, always bug my friend to let me sing another song....like right after the one I just finished. On a few occasions, he asked me if I would, I told him to ask the people who were waiting to sing ( I know them too....all of them ) and they were happy to have me sing another song, I thanked them, sang the song, bought them all a round, and enjoyed the rest of the show, nixing my next turn in the rotation. Here's where it gets "interesting".
   The owners know I also do a karaoke show. They asked if I would be interested in doing a show for them, and said; "any night that you want, we'll hire you". I was flabbergasted!!!!  I suggested that if they wanted another Karaoke Night, they should ask the Sunday Night KJ. They said they had, but he wasn't interested. I told them I'd think about it, walked away, and went to talk to my KJ friend. I told him what had just transpired, he told me he was NEVER asked and asked me if I was going to accept their offer. I told him "as long as you're working ANY night in this bar, the only time you'll see me is at YOUR show. I then went back to the owners, told them that I didn't appreciate their business practices ( I HATE LIARS )
told them there is no way I'd work for them because of what they just tried to do to my friend, they'd do it to me sooner or later, plus, I'm not that destitute where I have to go taking jobs from my friends. A few other KJ's go there also, ( like KJ nite out) and I told them ALL what had just transpired. Now....the owners are mud as far as we are all concerned. Plus one of the other KJ's told the owners that if they ever fired our friend, they'd have to go "out of state" for their next KJ !!
    That whole scenario really ticked me off. My friend has an incredible following, is the best KJ host I've ever seen, been doing KJ & DJ since the 70's, gives these owners more time than they pay for ( way more time ), he's worked for them for at least 10-12 years, and they've been told on numerous occasions, by regulars and newbies, he's the best thing in this bar on Sundays. I told my wife what happened and she was shocked. ( yeah...sometimes we actually go out together ) Oh, BTW,
NOBODY...and I mean NOBODY.....does the PUSSYCAT song like this guy. ( it must be a bald thing) Anyway...that's it in a nutshell. Have any of you experienced simular "situations" ?
     Thanks in advance for allowing me the opportunity to vent to people who understand the business.

                                            Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

No additional advice Donny,  You took the high road.  Those particular businessmen aren't worth expending positive energy on, and if I were your friend, I'd be looking for other work, with the objective of blowing that bar off last minute (no notice), if possible he might ponder pulling a no show. (It's not as if I'd wish to use such low-lifes' for a referral,  reference or ANY type recommendation, people like that aren't loyal, or honorable), just leave them high and dry. The fact that they know you two are friends, and would even think of doing something that despicable show's where their heads are lodged.  

Good work,  you did the right thing.  Now it's time for your friend to get angry enough, and realize that at anytime he might walk into that job and be without work, this is how they operate. I doubt they'd give him notice, they are looking to replace him anyway. People like those two "bosses" will likely burn him.  He should walk, prepare his following, and blow the place off. It's an issue of principle, and those owners are "cheap" people. They don't deserve the standard tact or graces of the boss/employee relationship.  They violated a biggie.  So either they are very stupid and dispassionate, or indirectly letting your friend know that he's going to be history soon. They certainly showed how little they value him. They never told you NOT to tell him this.  Hence,  they didn't care if he found out.  What type statement does that make ?

Perhaps a more appropro title would be "Owner's that don't deserve honest employee's",  All too many owners are that crass and low.


OR;  You can take the "Steven Kaplan" approach.  Form different Screennames, go into Citysearch and trash their business !  also include a little paragraph in Yahoo business review site, and Netscape (AOL reviews)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steve,
 Can you imagine the unmittigated gall of these two??!! I get VERY "annoyed" everytime I think about it. Believe it or not, they DON'T wat to replace him on Sunday's, but are looking for another night from...."whomever"....probably someone from "OUT OF STATE"!!!!  :rofl4:
    Thanks for the reply,

                    Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

Donny,  the problem is I *CAN* believe the gall of those two.  I wish this type behaviour was less common in business, but this type scenerio abounds. I wonder if they want to keep him saturdays, or keep him *for now* until they can cut some other deal with another individual.  Just as a means of protecting themselves during transition. It's hard to know.

Three years ago I was offered work with a blues trio, that I refused, they wanted to pay little, and the KJ I'd have been replacing with live music was supposedly *THEIR* friend.  They did in fact say, "Please say NOTHING to Brian".  I never did, I figured what goes on in their circle of friends (I use the term loosely) is their business.  I believe in "do unto others" however.  It's nice to feel wanted, and comfortable, even nicer taking pride in a job... How can a person take pride in their job, if the job is working for people that would cut an employee's throat in a heartbeat ?  I couldn't.  Although I realize "it's a job",  the work environment need not be black or white... The bosses can at least be half-decent folk. If it's a matter of saving money, I can understand their desire to do-so, but shouldn't they at least give HIM the first right of refusal ? Let him know that they don't wish to pay as much weekdays ?  No need to be dishonest like that.

As bars get tighter with their funds, we are going to see more, not less of this type action I'm afraid.  Bar businesses aren't having the easiest time these days.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I have seen some really underhanded business practices from bar owners over the last 8 years. This type of thing happens all the time. You did exactly what I would have done in the situation and it is great that you work so well with other KJ's in your area and are able to deal with this guy.

Maybe now is the time for your friend to ask for more money  Seeing as how it will probably be difficult for the bar owner to book someone else under the circumstances. Sounds like the bar has way more to lose than your friend.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

Steve,
 The weirdest part of the whole thing is they know I charge more than my friend but were still willing to pay.....I told my friend that also.....I heard he got a raise....so he wouldn't leave  :clapper:  :nana:  :rofl4:  :grouphug:

                  Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

Here's what happened to me---I was filling in at a Mexican restauant a few times(Charmin has been to this one). And the guy i filled in for had wedding and private party gigs. So I filled in. So what do you know but the owner (whom I'd never met before) comes up to me and starts sweet talking me and whining about how the other guy is too hard headed blah blah blah. Then he asks me if I would like to do Karoake there. Well smelling an underhanded rat-like creature I smoothly deflected his overture and told him I would have to consult with the other KJ(whom hired me) about any other type of karaoke activities there. Needless to say he made a face like I had jsut farted and he never bothered me again. Of course I let the other guy know and told him to watch his back. Needless to say, declining was the correct decision and I still do fill-ins occaisionaly for him at another gig(nicely paid too, I might add).

So this sort of behavior is pretty typical with bar owners. KJ's are a dime a dozen to them and there's always another undercutter ready to step in. Consider yourselves VERY FORTUNATE if you have an actual LOYAL and FAIR BAR OWNER who is reliable and doesnt take every opportunity to take advantage of you. Be professional at all times, but keep your eyes open and your ears open wider!  And never forget to watch your back!!

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

The problem is, none of the idiot bar owners should be owners.     Most of them don't know good from bad.     They don't have any loyalty, except for the $.   They don't know how to make all of the money they could make.     I really don't see why anything they do would suprise you.      They'll lie and say they don't want to do karaoke anymore and tell you you're done, turn around and have a new guy next week.     One of my gigs just got busted for operating without a liqour license for a year.

Around here karaoke is a very cut throat business.   KJs are like cockroaches running around everywhere.   They're wannabes that can't find work.     The will work for food crowd.    I've found flyers, business cards, slips and posters in almost all of my gigs.      I've had KJs walk in and talk to the owners, while I'm playing.    I've had owners come in to talk to me while I'm playing.    How is it around you, in general?

Cockroach is an accurate descprition. Slit your throat for a dime and suck up the blood as you die! There are a number of long-term reputable stand-up KJ's around here. But unfortunately there are WAY TOOOOO MANY throat cutters and backstabbers. Add in the cut-you-down gossipers and peyton place drama queen dwellers and you get the picture. It aint pretty.

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

the problem is that the owners you're talking about are uneducated to the business end of karaoke. To them, the name implies 'the same" as if everyone is going to be a good kj, everyone buys the same equipment, uses the same setup, etc...

to them, they want "karaoke" to fill in a night, and see how it works out.

I will say that sometimes having a different kj after a long time of having a show can mix it up for the bar... allowing "fresh blood" to come in and liven it up a bit. Sometimes having a long running gig can be hurtful as the owners see "stagnation"... not the success that we know happens from longtime gigs from GOOD hosts.

I applaud you sticking by your guns guys. It's rare in this business!

and congrats to the long time kj getting the raise.

Donny,  That's excellent.  That's actually another way to deal with this situation, a way I'd not have thought of, personally.  This type of situation is actually a learning experience for me. If I were in his shoes, I'd likely have gotten upset "bummed" and left. Perhaps immaturity, yet I'd have had a tough time transcending my ego, which isn't the "mature or correct" approach to take. Although very logical and practical, this is an interesting and VERY different concept for me, yet not sure why, I suppose because I'm more emotionally driven.  I'm not "tough" in the business setting. I'd have taken this quite personally.  Yet your friend had the ability, and self-worth to not only deal with this, but turn it around and make it into something positive for himself. Kuddo's to him...

This is something I need to ponder, hopefully be able to transcend myself (ego bruise), and try NOT taking things like this (when they happen tp me) which they have in the past, as a personal affront. It's easy to internalize this type anger, take it acutely personally.  Yet this is also one of the ways our ego can be *our own* worst enemy, it often doesn't enable us to think things thru pragmatically. I like the approach he took however. I suppose in a sense, he squeezed lemonade out've those two lemons  LOL

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

  Many thanks to all who offererd their support and advice ! As far as "cut-throats" there's really only one KJ in the area that the rest of us would squash in a heartbeat. Wouldn't even break a sweat, lose a minute of sleep, or give him the sweat off my b****s if he was in the desert dying of thirst, due to his "cut-throat mentality"! That's another story entirely.....not worth the time or effort. The rest of us ( about 10 as a group) go to each others shows when we can and promote their shows at our own shows. So basically, a bunch of people follow us around, bar to bar, city to city, because they like US, not the bar owners, and now the owners are starting to realize that because the word has spread due to the situation I described earlier. So.......who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks !!

                    Thanks again everyone,


                                     Donny "B"

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It's a wonderful life!!

Woo hoo You have excellent character in how you dealt with the situation!
I still feel bad for your friend even though he did receive a raise. I would hate to work at a place that I wasn't appreciated - especially after so many years of service.

Bar owners for the most part are out for themselves. My bar owner says things like we are all family here. It bothers me because I don't feel that way. I feel like he says it, so I won't go any where else. When he bought the bar I was doing karaoke. He appeared to want to faze me out and have bands all the time. He figured out after a year I was the one bringing in the crowds not the bands. He added me on another night. I feel like he appreciates the fact I make him money not the bands, but it ends there - the all mighty buck.

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Woo hoo You have excellent character in how you dealt with the situation!
I still feel bad for your friend even though he did receive a raise. I would hate to work at a place that I wasn't appreciated - especially after so many years of service.

Bar owners for the most part are out for themselves. My bar owner says things like we are all family here. It bothers me because I don't feel that way. I feel like he says it, so I won't go any where else. When he bought the bar I was doing karaoke. He appeared to want to faze me out and have bands all the time. He figured out after a year I was the one bringing in the crowds not the bands. He added me on another night. I feel like he appreciates the fact I make him money not the bands, but it ends there - the all mighty buck.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]