Karaoke Forums

There has been so much discussion on this site about piracy issues. I came across some information on another site, that got me thinking. The person on this other site said that many karaoke disc's are not even copyrighted. I thought that can't be. So I looked at several of my discs. DKK copyrighted as well as Chartbuster. Then I got to Music Maestro..... no copyright warning or logo on disc. The entire Gold Master Edition...nothing. Did I get a pirated set? Does Music Maestro copyright? If they don't is it pirating? If you own Music Maestro CDG's take a look to see if they are copyrighted. Let me know what you guys think.

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

This appears to be a number you can call them at.  Ask THEM what their policy is. To cut out speculation, and improper guessing ask the actual company your question. If you don't feel comfortable about your telephone number appearing on someone's caller ID unit, this isn't a toll free number.  You can block your phone number prior to dialing the 310 prefix. IOW ask the actual business questions regarding their business policy.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Please don't mis understand my questions. I have no interest in pirating someone elses work. I was under the impression the company went under. I don't care if they see my number. My interest is in what the other site had said. I worked for a company that had pirated discs. I quit that company. I want nothing more than to see the karaoke industry grow, but legally. After working in the retail side of karaoke for some time, I can tell you that a lot of companies are copying discs. Even what appear to be legit companies. I am currently helping a company in Arizona who is suing another company out here in Ca. That company tried to use a program to automatically click on thier compititions sponsored links. In turn it would create a huge bill for the compititors, but no sales. Effectivly putting a company out of buisness. My other concern was if I have a pirated edition it is evidence that where I purchased it from was copying illegally. Sorry if it seemed like I was trying to do something illegal, not my thing. Thanks for the number, I will call because I'm curious.

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

Can't rember if I read it on this forum, or some other place.  But I belive that there was a crackdown on pirated/illegal discs, and someone had a bunch of MM disc that were illegal (MM never got permission to use them, either fomr the origional song owner, or the company that they copied the karaoke tracks from.  Anywho the person that had the MM disc did not get into any trouble.

Weather this was true or no, I have no Idea.

all of my music maestros are originals and none of them have copyright info on them.

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The Line Array Experiment is over. Nothing to see here. Move along.

Music Maestro isn't really in business anymore, they said it was due to piracy - maybe it was due to they were the pirates???  Dunno!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

IfIcouldonlysing,

Still, for the bottomline regarding your questions:


  You are asking NUMEROUS questions regarding "Legality".
  What strangers in a chatroom "think" doesn't get to the bottom of your specific question(s), nor will you likely come away with facts regarding your questions. Answer's are just speculative, and likely from sources as or less knowledgeable about specifics than yourself. When you ask non-experts for conjecture, what strangers to you "think" appeases your desire for "facts" how ?

  All I'm suggesting, is that for this type intricate FACTUAL info it's best to attempt to try to get as close to the source you are inquiring about as possible. What you get in rooms such as this is usually speculative at best.  Here is a site for instance that seems to sell ALOT of Music Maestro products as well. My guess is they might be able to at least steer you to a better source dealing with area's of "Music Maestro" business law currently.  (I just did a random internet search for someone possibly closer to providing you with sources closer to a means that can answer your specific questions more knowledgeably)

Karaoke Warehouse
4401 Lyman Dr.
Hilliard, OH 43026
614-527-2916
1-800-645-8401  

You can perhaps start by calling them, and asking them who you can call for more technical legal information regarding the products they sell (just as a means of finding out who can furnish you with accurate not speculative info on the specific business aspects of that company)

My point being, if you want FACTUAL information regarding areas of "legality",  or factual advice regarding anything this specific, get a better idea as to the source of the info you receive. While Pirating get's discussed here, Very few if any here (but even regarding THIS I'm not certain) have legal qualifications to answer specifics as they might relate to certain businesses AND your own application). We are strangers that are anonymous to you. If I give you inaccurate advice about something, you essentially got what you paid for which is legal info care of the practices of "Chatroom Esq". For specific FACTS, try to hit closer to a source than a general internet room, (regardless of whether or not those in the room share a general interest in a comparable area, few can or should give you very specific legal advice).  While there ARE people that will give you close to accurate or sound info.  Other's that haven't a clue will also interject their wannabe "Atty" expertise at your expense (they haven't the invested interest or credentials to back up their assertion).
   Since I'm not an Atty dealing with intricacies of pirating, or an expert at anything except gabbing, and for all you know I might be a professional Con Artist, but that aside, since *YOU* don't know whether Copyright Atty's in here exist, or those that are giving you information have a clue as to what they are talking about or not, I think the most honest advice someone can give you *IMHO* is that for accurate advice regarding Music Maestro's legality issues pertaining to "Piracy" of their products, or even just how to identify legitimate products OF THEIRS, try to find a closer source to "Music Maestro" that has more invested interest in "Music Maestro", and a source THAT YOU can have a better idea is "In the know". You don't know who we are, and your question is a valid one, you deserve a legitimate answer.

JMO (but it's honest advice). You ARE asking for legal information or advice.
       I think your questions are QUITE valid, they deserve factual answers, and
       this is a good "heads up" for other's with comparable concerns. Try to find
       out about the status of this business from legitimate real sources, and a large
       retailer selling ALOT of their product might be a good resource to start.
       Naturally they will likely tell you "Our copies are ALL legit", yet that's not what
       you are asking them about.  You may need to be resourceful and call up
       several large retailers to locate someone who can help you with particulars.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I'm a little confused,  6 weeks ago you posted the following in a different thread.


What I don't understand is that what you are asking us, appears to be field you already have done some extensive "dabbling" in regarding research of "backdoor" copies of Music Maestro, you know "Music Maestro" has a duplicator, and apparently even know who they are. You stated a non-disclosed business name has had back door dealings with a duplicator of "the legit" Music Maestro, and you appear to already have a substantial amount of info regarding areas of this.

You've even followed thru with notifying the police and Music Maestro as stated:


So you've already been in touch with the "legit" Music Maestro regarding unethical matters you are aware aren't legal, and as of the last week in March you thought *THEY* (Music Maestro) cared, or you seem to feel they had in interest in the wrong-doing that you discussed with them. Today you ask *US* our opinion about an issue that appears to be a revelation to you.



  Sorry,  I'm confused (not that this is news to those that sort've know me)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I have several concerns when it comes to karaoke. The biggest is that some un named companies, continue to do this ( copying discs) as well as other illegal ventures.

I am personally involved with two companys lawsuits, as a witness. I asked here because most will give an opinion with out being a smart a!!. As I said earlier I thought Music Maestro was out of buisness. Thats why I didn't call.

My other concern, if you really love karaoke. Is if this industry keeps going the way its going with back door deals and pirating, it will not continue. I know of one place that wants to kill all compition, even if its done illegally.

Several people in high places know this and turn thier heads.

My goal in the future is to start my own karaoke store, but with legit items, and great customer service. I already have the finacial backing. We will be opening 4 stores at once in So Cal area. We are scouting locations.

This is why I'm concerned about what others are doing. I appreciate your attempting to help, but you seem to have a bit of an attitude. I was asking OPINIONS, I have legal counsel for my company.

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

I'm sorry you feel I have an attitude. You weren't being straightforward;  Some posts you come across as a person who has concerns and wants direction because you are an inexperienced buyer of this type merch. and are seeking factual info about YOUR purchases. You "fear" you are abetting the sale of, AND possibly at the receiving end of a Music Maestro Gold Series that you bought as a person *it turns out from earlier posts* with many years of Karaoke retail buying experience (which was when you purchased your library wholesale as stated January).  You made  purchases while managing (which was before the time period you called Music Maestro which was prompted by the awful experience yet to come), just lost your job and of course out've respect to this site, "wouldn't give names of those involved in the wrong-doing" (also, stated end of January), "The Police didn't care", you stated at that time "Music Maestro cared" (March 23rd)  you've been quite concerned that "what you are buying might not be legit", so you ask us whether or not "you" might be buying illegitimate discs.
    One day ago your interest was "sparked" as the result of "What somebody" in another site said, you appear in here as needing legal info (that conversation was what brought you here). "That can't be" you exclaim, a revelation to you (the experienced sales manager of such merchandise). When questioned you change your perspective to posing as an individual only wanting "opinions", suddenly you haven't had REAL legal concerns because given your established business, actual "legal resources". But, you come here questioning a day ago again, wanting answers from a room of people you don't know, reason being "you aren't experienced", and are concerned about once again "legalities", again Fluctuating between experienced in this area, and again flip-flopping reverting to the person who's someone (like myself with "MINIMAL karaoke industry knowledge") wanting advice to quell real concerns (because of what "someone" in a different internet area said). You leave stranger, coming to "strangers", because you are "surprised" about something "you heard".
    Had you just been "Obsessed" with an area, I could understand that.  I myself ruminate about issues.

Believe me,  with this most can commiserate.
    BUT, You ask particulars regarding intricate legalities, you appear at a loss. Same day, it turns out you DO have close sources to find legal particulars and have an Atty on retainer since a few months following being in dire financial straits after getting fired, "Your 4 scouted store locations are going to open at the same time, with set financial backing, and your business is beyond the initial planning phase. In fact you have spoken with people in high places". Now why in other posts are you vacillating between stating that you've been "managing the retail aspects of Karaoke for many years" (which also exists in your profile, 12 years I believe you stated someplace) experienced in the selling and buying of the VERY ITEM you yesterday were questioning strangers about claiming you "are concerned" ONCE AGAIN about authenticity in YOUR area of expertise ? BUT you have interesting contacts, Knowledge of business intricacies regarding Karaoke, and deal with KJ's.
Which retrospectively makes your initial question;
  "Can I KJ if I don't sing" ? ludicrous.Turns out you know alot about this area however. An area You were unfamiliar with (about your second post end of January 2006). Yesterday you were feigning that recently the revelation that "THAT CAN'T HAPPEN, they really do this in Karaoke"?  "How do I know if MINE aren't legit" ? was the catalyst for your inquiry here. "Something on the internet" said by a complete stranger started your quest. That wasn't being truthful. Earlier on, "It's your experience in management that has given you whole-sale buying capabilities to purchase a library, (15000 song selection) and has enabled you to become an experienced source who is assisting (as we speak) no longer a law suit, but now "law suits" as a credible witness. Other posts you "just want to know whether or not you can KJ if you can't sing well" and that's your concern.  End of January you stated you "recently lost a job as an experienced manager, an HONEST manager with a motive", yet you also recently "quit" a different business because of the SAME REASON. and you have consulted thru legal channels RECENTLY and as a result of your positive mission, you've accumulated sage regarding intricate aspects MOST of us don't know about - but not just limited to somewhat obscure company policy; it seems your vast wealth of experience makes you privy to industry ownership detail too (you state Ace Karaoke and some details). One post MM recently is the "good guy", yet for some STRANGE reason with YOUR wealth of knowledge, "assuming Music Maestro"wasn't around a few months following talking to them sent you to a room of strangers  :shock:
     I read you stating (late January) you are having a tough time finding a job and needed help JUST TO MAKE ENDS MEET, between an expecting pregnant wife, and dishonest boss firing you you were having a tough time but this was your own ethical construct that led to you being "let go" from Karaoke related management, YET at that time you wanted to know if a KJ "must sing"  Can you KJ without singing to make ends meet.. (Something ANYONE managing 12 years in that area has some idea about), Yet NOW you also need to know about "Burning backups", How can you do it ?  What do you need ? Another angle to elicit something from members in here but WHAT ?:(  You weren't sure, but were in financial straits so some here obviously felt you wanted to become a "KJ", and you played that chip. A few months later (today) you are a business owner with full backing, 4 stores opening  :shock:  while only a few months back you "eventually wish to open your own store in the future" proper ethics being the key. So you have a few questions,  and are just someone hoping you can find some employment to help making "ends meet" for your family. In that same period of time you mentioned we should "Stay tuned for a list of businesses that aren't dealing with legal merchandise" HMMM,  (now why that out've the blue "he mused").  (Congratulations about the 4 stores btw)
    24 hour ago you pose as the inexperienced buyer fearing your selection might not be legit, when questioned, you (a few months following your dream of opening your own store and your having hardships) "have had an Atty for your business", 4 sites picked out, full financial backing, and are an expert just asking opinions. You have no actual "concerns". Within a day of your flurry of concerns post. Did I mention this bizarre type wavering sequence all transpired within your first 12 posts to this site ?
    We don't know who you are. In fact less than a day ago you thanked me for a means as to how you can possibly reach "Music Maestro" ? You APPEARED to know little about them. Turns out You haven't attempted to reach them a few months after you KNEW they were in business (January) and spoke with them, you now assume they don't exist. So you ask here "ARE they legit" and inquire in here ? BUT you have more knowledge it turns out about them than MOST..Hmmm.. 24 hours ago you didn't appear to know how you could get in touch with them assuming you even wanted to try..hmmm.  You didn't say,
    "Thanks, but I know how to call them should I wish to".
     Yes,  I saw discrepencies
     Sorry you felt I "had an attitude", but I WAS skeptical. It felt as though you had a hidden agenda.  I didn't feel you were being direct. Turns out, you weren't direct. I was trying to help you, I liked the concept of "so honest you've become the underdog", because in MY OWN real life, and as a civil confrontationalist in political aspects involving board behaviour it turns out fighting city hall can be exhausting, (but I won't get into my own stuff here).  I had no hidden agenda, but questioned contradictory statements (given your first 12 posts aligned and read) my not understanding what you really wanted in here, and your motive wasn't clear.
My apologies. I misunderstood. You do in fact have the answers to your questions, in this area. What you really want, who knows ?

Had you stated:

    That would've been your recent "truth"
    You were fishing.  You weren't sincere.
    Guess I'll go back to my tent two forums down, and play some more.

a late night It musta been....... too bad they dont have a chat option here anymore. better yet to save Stevens Fingers ...Chat with Voice options.

great read and detective work

Hmm...by that rationale, I guess there will be no more music business soon...no more radio, no more MTV, no more Hollywood, no more inventions, no more Lockheed/Martin...

You know what, actually by that rationale there will soon be no more USA, as China pirates pretty much all of our intellectual property, reverse engineers it, and reproduces it to export for next to nothing...



Whew...that was a close one...at least I know now that Microsoft will make it out alive...

There are pirates and black markets in EVERY industry world-wide. Just because the music/karaoke pirates may be more publicised and their black market is friggin EBAY doesn't mean it is any more prevelent. It is just a pervasive market force that is always going to be there no matter what you try to do.

Welcome to free-market economics....it's actually not the end of the world (karaoke or otherwise).

Just don't be that guy that buys the stolen car at the chop shop and I promise you'll be able to sleep at night (unless, that is, you are in the market for a 2006 Mercedes SL600 for $12K....CALL ME!!)

Honestly, your posts make you sound like you have some crazy-azz agenda that you aren't telling us OR that you have something weighing on your conscious....

But if you are just on a life-long crusade to clean up the karaoke business, more power to you!!!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Way to go Kappy

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott

You are right! I do have an agenda. Thier is also a reason why I'm not telling you everything, actually a couple. One, because of said lawsuits I can't ask direct legal questions. Two the reason I really want to know about Music Maestro is a buisness matter, and as I said, I thought they were no longer in buisness.

As for my situation in the past, a lot of things have happened in my life since the original post. I since have had financial backing from friends and family, I have also lost my wife to cervical cancer, which left me as a single dad. I have a 3 year old and a 1 year old. My life has moved at an incredible pace. Unlike what you think you know. People do have good things as well as bad happen to them.

When I posted the first time life was really bad, my questions were out of anger. Now my questions are part curiosity, and part buisness...ie how to make money. Yes you are right I'm not going to tell you my motives when it comes to buisness. No real buisness man would. I have no illegal motives. As for inside info or resources, let me tell you.........Talking to people in the retail side/ manufacturing side is almost as interesting as talking to you.

example......Major karaoke retailer sells pirated discs, gets caught.  Karaoke retailer gets minor fines, and admits no wrong doing. Why? because manufacturer does not want to lose a major distributor of his products. Who loses.....you and me. I know of several really nice people who are KJ'S. Those people are running shows with sub standard equipment, and disc that may have missing songs. I realize in this venue some have an elitist attitude. Your shows are best or the little guys are taking from you. Maybe you should look at it diffrently. The more people get into karaoke(singers) the more shows you will be doing. As for the little guys that you think are taking your buisness with sub standard shows, if you advertised better and really offered a better product, then that is what matters.

example: you can go to walmart and buy a karaoke machine for home. So then why would someone go to a karaoke retailer to get a higher priced unit.....quality/service/selection.

I realize that you have a better show because you have a better selection of music, but does the consumer know that.

I am sorry you felt that you had to play sherlock, but as you said....I asked an opinion from some one who may not know. Instead of just saying that you instead wasted a lot of time trying to some how question my motives. Its been fun, and you are apparently some what intelligent. I hope you are happy trying to tear some one down, when they ask a question on this site. I'm not a KJ,  but retail management.
I don't really think the karaoke buisness will collapse, but its amazing that this site and the people associated with it seem to say they care about piracy, but I guess it just looks good on paper.

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If you don't love what you're doing for a living, then you're making a killing. (YOURS)

Just an FYI - Music Maestro has set up shop in England because the copyright laws  :read: are generally more loose than in the US.  If you look at www.proburn.com you can find Maestro tracks for purchase on a custom disk legally.  At least to last info I saw.

As to the other parts of the discussion, this industry eats it's own young - plain and simple.  Whether it is karaoke or the larger music industry.

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Terryoke
Krazy Kanuck Karaokeist

Karaoke is the only social disease that you can get in public and not get arrested.