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Very few songs are recorded without reverb or an effect of some kind - MOST have some amount, no matter how much you may not hear it, it's there.  Again, the best effects are the ones that you can't hear, but would notice if it wasn't there.

Alot of karaoke shows DO use too much.  Some singers think they like more - it only muddies & covers their voice to a point that they can't really hear what they really sound like & think they sound better than they really do.

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That depends on MANY things ! ,  you can't generalize ever like this. It also
depends on type of reverb, level of reverb, quality of FX, and how you equalize your voice after adding it in to compensate for what it ruins.. This is a whole science within itself.. Reverb is NOT a bandaid.


Instances where *I* feel it really impedes overall sound quality:

Higher levels of reverberation detract from many ballads, and many other genre's if you have a natural warm persence, and gorgeous ethereal fade to your vibrato that has an almost Karen Carpenteresque type warmth, (and yes the Carpenter's DID use certain amounts of reverb), yet it's HOW reverb is used that's important, how much, and NOT at the expense of ruining your strengths. Too much reverberation adds noise, and changes your balance... WAY too much makes you sound trebly, and tinny... Warm mid's and low's are often lost in an individuals voice..Certain ballads IMHO sound really nice because more detail and natural vocal quality and presence are heard; In many cases What you DO NOT want, is the listener to hear frequencies all running together, your presence killed, and in addition the extraneous reverberation noise (tin, and treble noise) detracting from the individuals natural knack for dynamics ( a composition isn't as "tight" with the runny quality of excessive reverberation) There are also MANY types of reverb.  Yet very few really good quality reverb units heard these days, which is part of the problem too in some cases..

A LITTLE reverberation, and even mod effects if mixed lightly and tastefully can help,  yet that also depends on the quality of the unit's reverb FX, and MANY other tweaks you make along with the addition of reverb. Assuming all else is balanced accordingly,, it MIGHT at times help in moderation BUT when you go overboard on your reverb, It really hurts song dynamics, ruins attack, cadence, and how "tight" you sound.. you sound more distant, tinny, and might as well be singing in a cave (sometimes) or large tin can, reverb simulates the bouncing around of sound, it disorganizes certain things. There are a few of you that do yourselves an injustice with reverb because what you are doing is masking your natural gifts, (often the very traits that enabled you to produce the highest ranking ballads in SS).  When you try to hide certain aspects due to insecurities unfortuneately it not only sounds like you are doing just that, but it also detracts from the quality of your mix.


Jeanne, PLEASE do away with anything more than the smallest amount of reverberation. POSSIBLY using delay if it's properly set at a proper BPM rate might work better without harming your dynamics and talents yet I don't know, Delay's aren't an area I'm personally skilled with..FX are an area of study within themselves, and I'm not caught up on the newer digital FX...(which I stay away from for the most part anyway because they are VERY dry, compared to the wetter analog FX on the better units years back) I know a few of us have certain disagreements in this area , and I can respect that, yet too much reverberation not only doesn't do what you believe it might be doing, in addition it ruins your mix, it hurts your brilliant use of vibrato, distances your presence, detracts from the rhythmic and cadence structure of your  songs much of the time by making your use of phrasing and dynamics run together, and it adds a natural treble (tinny quality) to an otherwise beautiful natural warmth by affecting your lower frequency area, and making you sound more distant. For that really nice "Candlelight" cocktail genre you do so well (really excel in) too much reverb is really hurting you..... Just my honest opinion...

Why a few of you suddenly feel as though you actually have certain things to hide confuses me.  Certainly it's not aspects of your singing that need to be hidden...Yet I know all about how self-image can screw us up badly..... Yet how you perceive the result of your mix to come across, might not actually be as other's hear the mix...

That's the interesting thing about psychology... Sometimes WE do the worst number on ourselves in not being able to see things somewhat objectively...

Two of the most talented vocalists in here SHOULD NOT be hiding behind excessive levels of reverberation, it add's NOTHING... except extraneous FX noise.

JMHO...Yet I'm somewhat confident in this case I'm giving extremely constructive feedback to two of my KS buddies...

LIGHTEN UP on the reverberation !!!!


Although there are times when more reverb might be called for.  There are plenty of times when less is best. Depends on the individual song, why, and how the reverb is used. Using it to hide is a no-no. I used to do the same thing with mod type FX..  My big combo with guitar was phase shifting (sometimes flanging) with reverb and stereo chorus... I thought I was creating a "leslie"-rotating speaker type effect... I didn't realize I wasn't... There's a better way to do that with just chorus, and some other less psychedelic effect...  I sort've ended up stuck back in the Abbey Road, Sgt Pepper period of music...  It's easy to get into certain patterns and not easily know how this sounds to others... We get an idea in our head... and although technically what WE hear isn't wrong.  It's not an accurate representation of what others are hearing,  we aren't actually achieving the results we are setting out to achieve.

Problems with digital doubling, doubling, if not time involved is how it's done, rerecorded assuming a person has capability to do this... but lower end digital reverb units DON'T always add favorably..I think most are better off just singing further away from the microphone if they want to sound a little distant, it's what was done in the old days... You have to be careful when playing with FX..  They can backfire.. Quite honestly, many when they feel insecure tend to sing further from the microphone,  doing that simulates a type of reverb, in addition to the room you sing in (which often has a certain amount of natural reverb too), quality of equipment you use, etc.....Certain types of equipment add a certain element of reverb, and when you in addition crank up reverb....you lose so much ! Live use of reverb is also different than recording reverb.. When you record with FX the use of FX becomes more critical..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Should we start a poll ?


1- Turn down reverb
2-you use just the right amount of reverb
3- I can't tell, it's still rock and roll to me.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Oh oh.....Billy's here now.... He's going to kick my (@$%&#!)..


<running like the cowardly yankee I am>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Adding effex is work for a kj....gotta stay with it, watch for feedback....real easy to set it dry, go by the bar, get a drink and talk with friends.....I see this often......also think reverb is in the ear of the beholder......."oh, he/she wouldn't sound so good, if he didn't have all that effex......you should give the singer what he wants....you're suppose to please him/her....not yourself....maybe some of us, don't have as good of an ear as we think we do

Johnny,

   In the case a few of us were thinking (at least I believe) we were discussing recording's in Singer's Showcase.  Certain people are professional ability vocalists that request constructive feedback.  A few (at least to my ear) sounded better, and still sound better when I can hear MORE of their ability... Not (at least the current) FX units, set at somewhat excessive level's.

I think at the bar, yeah, you give them what they want, because for that several minute period it's just "about them" having fun... In this case I'm scrutinizing talent that at times IS "10" level ability.  It's just the kind of sidewalk foreman I am

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

llll, i heard that...hi my use to be friend....yes i know i use to much verb....seems the more u use the more u want,  and it does make hitting notes easier, but i should use less when mixing,  so see steven u live another day...

Thanks Billy,  It's a tough love thing... I had to let it out... I couldn't help myself... I was thinking more in terms of Jeannes use however.. I think it's obvious that at least *I* don't feel you have any purpose in covering up, yet I've heard Jeanne do ballad before, and after the addition of reverb... She really has a warm beautiful presence, and she has that knack for nailing her dynamics WITHOUT reverb, and to begin with..

She does what she does fabulously..  Reverb isn't the answer in her case...  (At least I don't think)...It's her presence and natural detail, and that amazing use of natural fade out during vibrato that made the difference between a few "10's" and what otherwise might've been an "8" ONLY because of what it was I WAS NOT able to hear detracting from her highest score..Reverb covers up what she excels at too, and in her case what she can do far outweighs the certain area's she might feel less comfident in..  In this case ... Problem being while reverb does help in specific areas, to limited degree's, it also does it's damage in other areas. (again according to MY particular listening ability).. Thing is, YOU have ALOT of power, and can push thru certain reverb still attacking notes, and compensating for it... Jeanne has a softer quality voice, and IMHO the reverberation washes out too much at higher setting levels...

So again, this is no reflection on singing.. Just the addition of reverb level to excellent vocalists..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I recall Carly Simon used to use pretty high level's of reverb, especially early on.. On the Album "spy" specifically the song "It seem's like you've never been gone" she used a REALLY high level of reverb, yet for that certain liturgical effect, and choir church sound people like Tull can get away with it... In some cases higher settings add, but from my experiences this use really is trying to sound spacey, and distant... or produce the cathedral type effect... I guess if a person is doing the older rock type :headier: music such as comfortably numb, or Wond'ring Aloud reverb gives that "head" music type effect... IE....  Night's in White Satin, etc.. but not sure it's ever used steadily at higher level's throughout a song... Sort've thrown in during various parts of composition...Yet also tweaked throughout..

And to be honest,  I don't know how even those songs would sound thru newer consumer grade digital mixer reverberation FX... I think alot of that utilized the older Hammond Spring reverb type unit... and additional FX mixed in...Even the echoplex units.. and Rotovibes/univibes and Leslies...

To be honest, I don't know how much of Tull and Floyd are in fact "reverb", vs delay, light flange, or just phase shifting or even studio doubling..  etc.

Anyway, I found this interesting... I think if there's a room a person likes the sound of in their home, if it's possible to sing from that room, the result might be preferable to some of the mixer reverbs... All room's offer different amounts of reverb...

http://homerecording.about.com/od/basic ... heet+music

This guy doesn't like the spring reverb... .   What does he know <shrug>..HEHEHE

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

A question, speaking of FX for anyone that might have an idea...


Police song "Canary in a Coalmine",  Is Andy Summer actually playing that synchopated guitar part, or is he using a slapback delay type guitar FX, or is that tight rhythmic slapback type sound just studio dubbing, or even a sequencer ?   It's been ages since I've heard that song, yet I was always curious as to what type FX he was using.. Although I never saw the police live, they pulled off some tricky rythmic stuff..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I always give the singer more if they ask for it, but only in their monitor so they can only hear it, the main mix is still mixed where it sounds good.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I occasionally have had to get the KJ to drop the echo down because it was too high, particularly on those songs where you want to give it a lot of power.  Either that or I've held the mic further from my mouth and that seems to reduce the echoing.

I wonder if it's a matter of accoustics, the bars I go in the KJ is stuck in a corner and with wireless mics you can sing from wherever you're comfortable.  Inevitably it's going to sound different wherever you are in the bar.

It seems to me when I covert MP3 I actually lose some reverb. I generally try not to overdo on mine. I usually record my junk and then open it in video editing program I have called "Vegas 5.0", which affords me different reverb settings; I generally select the "large studio" setting.  Then again, I sound like I should have a record contract, so not to much for me (just kidding folks).

I agree, sometimes the reverb is soooooooooooooo high on some submissions it sounds like they are doing duets with their twin or something.  I've actually gotten vertigo listening to it through headphones.

Michael

Athena Marie, you know who you are.....Ran

That's exactly what I do!

I have an old Midiverb II with 99 built-in effects. Sometimes I use reverb, sometimes echo and sometimes just the "large room" setting.

Some singers request their song be "dry" and I'm fine with that if they have the pipes to pull it off. If not, I always add a touch of reverb...I think it makes everyone sound just a bit better.