Karaoke Forums

Seriously,  I'm going to shutup and listen,  I promise (I think)

Dealing with Ego I suppose is going to be the topic here.. Most performer's have an ego, and we hate losing.... or am I wrong ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I whine, I cry, I stomp my feet and yell "It's not fair" repeatedly until they give me a prize anyhow.

If that doesn't work, I pout quietly while batting my eyes, maybe wink at the judge.

One of those usually seem to do the trick, depends on the judge.  :D

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I used to build myself to win before the competition... then when it came time to announce the winner I would expect to NOT hear my name. That way I was, in some aspect, ready for the loss and of course excited if I won. Nowadays I try to be completely honest with myself at competitions, completely unbiased (hard to do.) I usually review a tape of the competition a number of times and pick apart my performance, for some reason it helps me understand and cope with why I didn't win (assuming I really wasn't the best.) If I was the best, and should have won (because let's face it, there are times when the best doesn't finish on top) then I chalk it up to "that's life" and it was good experience and exposure.

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I learned something this year.  If I truly let go, and not care I'm in competition and just SING - I win.  Great googly moogly who'd a thunk.  I just clear my mind of the whole competition, and don't hype myself up to win/advance.  There are strong opinions in Puget Sound that a couple of the major contests are rigged (I've heard gripes every year universally about Evergreen) and I've heard gripes about a couple of specific KJ's and how they run their contests.  So - I don't give it a lot of thought.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Most competitions are already fixed, and ringers who I haven't sing in that club are competing, I'm just up to get in a song because I was going to go sing anyways.   And mostly I'm already saying who's going to win and how, maybe people hear me talk and also get a chuckle when the outcome was what I said.

Maybe if it was for a bigger prize, I might give a rat's hind quarter, but its usually politics anyhow.

One of the best ways to cope with defeat --Is don't expect to win.
Confidence is good in all aspects of life but when people EXPECT to be the best at something ..Thats where the problems start.  Sing your heart out and hope for the best.  Besides realizing there is ALWAYS someone better you have to deal with all the outside influences of JUDGING ETC ETC .

I have never been defeated in any competition














so far















because I never enter any

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I was raised to be gracious.....it sucks to lose but if you were outperformed, so be it, give the other guy/gal their due and move onto the next competition!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

I don't enter contests anymore - I'm assuming you mean singing contests.
I kind of do what strmbreez does. I assume I'm not going to win, so if I do
I'm excited - If I don't I'm not disappointed. I've only lost once and to be honest
I started thinking the contest wasn't fair etc... Then stopped myself and thought grow up, it is just for fun anyway. I'm not getting rich with this. I stopped going to contests
after that. I guess I went to contests to prove to myself I was good because my ego was low. I never entered a big money contest. I think the most I won was $100.

One time it was a cell phone. The funny part was to get the phone I had to sign up for that companies service. Some prize.  LMAO

Most of these contests you have to stay all night to see if you've won. That gets old
just to win a drink coupon or a t-shirt and ball cap. And for what? To make me feel better about the fact I can sing? The reason I asked the question do you rate yourself by how you think others perseive you - is because I don't think my voice is anything special. Sure I have range and can sing in tune, but I don't think my voice has character. I rated myself higher because I know others enjoy my singing. Does that sound crazy?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Some helpful tips people.

I'm referring to handling ANY competition, beit the try-out that's important to you, leading role as an actor.  It can be sport's, ANY art,  audition, etc.  Even a relationship, ANYTHING where rejection or not placing is made obvious. Do you accept that ?  Some seem to deny it, yet maybe that's good and a means of coping.. How do you console yourself ?  Are people taught how to deal with losing at a young age today ? It wasn't discussed.  Seem's when I was growing up everything was geared towards "win" "getting the A grade", the "10 score", If you didn't, well, "maybe next time" were words you'd hear... but that doesn't help us deal with the acuteness of the here and now when these things happen, It wasn't fun, it felt horrible, because everything in competition was "compete to place 1st". Yet it was  never discussed how those that DON'T place "deal with it", I never understood why..   How do you deal with YOUR OWN head, what enables some people to "get back on the horse", after feeling acutely beat to (@$%&#!); OR, when one get's "back on the horse" after being thrown off a few times (so-to-speak),  isn't it MINDSET that's ultimately more important than action ?  What makes it worth it to you to reenter competitive settings assuming you feel abit beat up  ?  Or perhaps,  Why do people enjoy competition in the first place ?  Some people are told to never accept failure. Isn't an example the upbringing the Kennedy males had ? You don't lose ? I don't understand how that's possible. Yet for some it seem's to be. Is a person NOT supposed to accept "losing" ?

Look at the S. American soccer players years back, some people take competition so seriously, they do what we consider "crazy stuff"...

I wonder if our developed mindset during competition is something we develop personally, or if it's a conditioning that's instilled in us as children VERY early in life, perhaps even experiences we had early on.  I recall in some little league games even recently, the kid's WERE the good sports, but it's the parents that are beating on one-another acting like kindergartners,  In such a case regardless of what the kid is told, the kid still see's the affects his/her losing has on the parents, how is such a kid supposed to enjoy competitive settings during the later years ?

It's evident that sportsmanship and mindset in MANY cases took, or perhaps still takes a backseat to the attitude "just win" or "focus on winning" and nothing else..

Is there such a thing as "the true competitor" ?   If-so is this a natural skill such as the "fight or flight" mechanism ?   or is it learned behaviour ?  If-so, is there often burn-out later on ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Sorry Kappy - I need to pay attention more.
I am very competitive and hate to lose. I think it is because I had 3 older brothers.
If I lose I take it as a challenge usually to do better. I think at most things the more you practice the better you get. I admire the person who can beat me and try harder.
Everyone can't be the best at everything. If I won at everything I tried it wouldn't be fun anymore. I love the getting there part.

When I was in college we used to play the game quarters. I practiced so much I could roll a quarter off my nose into a cup 100 times or more. I got so good no one wanted to play with me anymore. Stupid I know now, but being the best at something
isn't always that important. The fun part was getting there.

I was in a lot of sports also. I enjoyed playing so much the losing part didn't bother me as much. But of course winning is always more fun.

I guess what I am saying is - I take losing as a challenge to better myself. Have you ever seen the movie "Rudy".

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

It probably does have something to do with experiences growing up too.
I had the type of parents that always assumed I'd lose or at least that is the way it felt. I think they were trying to soften the blow in case I didn't win. You know the speach - it is okay if you don't win you can try again next year blah blah blah. I hated that - it made me want to win more just to prove I could win. I look back at it now and I was rediculous - I was a cheer leader, first chair tuba player, drum majorette(this was more so I didn't have to carry the darn tuba when we'd do parades), volleyball player, and softball player.

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

OIC...

I believe my competitiveness comes from within myself given my environment and family influences growing up. I played t-ball as a child. You can watch the video and hear the parents screaming at their children. I see how the competitive thing starts very young. But I don't feel that my mom (my primary parent) ever pushed me to be "better" than anyone else. She was always happy with me as long as I did my best. If my best was a C (as in Math) she was proud of that C. But if I got a C in English she was po'd because she knew that I was excellent at English. An A was all she would take. I believe I decided to push myself harder.

I was (as I've said before) raised in a "bad" neighborhood and was basically "white trash." It wasn't until I moved to a different, and somewhat larger, city that I understood the stigma attached to "white trash." Of course, because I wore hand-me down clothes and my mom was a struggling single parent I was ignorant, stupid, not talented, etc... or at least that's how I appeared and was treated by my peers and some of my teachers. Also, as I got older I was one of those girls who developed quickly and was pudgy and disliked because being the fat girl's friend was not the popular thing to do! This became a challenge in that I was going to prove to all of them and to myself that I was smarter and more talented than they had ever dreamed I could be.  

My real father has been in and out of prison my whole life. My grandfather (his father) killed my grandmother back in 2000. His whole family has wasted their lives on drugs. I always felt that I needed to prove that I was "breaking the cycle." This ties into my competitiveness because it makes me push myself harder (almost like competing with myself); it makes me feel that the more I achieve, the more I move away from the type of people this family is.

I was raised by my step-father from the age of 7 on. Without going into too much detail, I feel that this has been a huge factor in why I am so competitive. A lot of people probably understand what I mean when I say, for example, if I said over and over again every day for ten years or so that you aren't good enough... what would your reaction be? It's largely because of my step-dad I try to prove I'm good enough almost every day. I feel like I have a competitive spirit, not only towards myself but towards others during any type of competition. And if it's not a competition I'm one of the ones that will turn it into a competition.

Before I stop writing this little novel let me input that when your born at the bottom (or what you percieve to be the bottom) there really is no place to go but up. Once I realized that I was in the lower class, and that it made me "different" I decided that I wasn't happy with others assuming that I was unskilled simply because I was poor. My family's pretty much middle class now, but since I've had that "I'm gonna show them" mindset, I can't just turn it off. And frankly, I don't want to.

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Strmbreez - it is tough to poor your heart out like that. I think you've come
a long way girl. That didn't sound like white trash talking to me. It sounded like a
wize beyond her years young lady.  :worship:

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

To clear thing up, Yes I compete, but against myself. 'Head I win tail you loose' kind of situation.  LOL

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Exactly Jian.  It's never really about the "competition", It's about how WE deal with our thought process before, during, and after the competition ! Some of us are extremely tough on ourselves. While I'm aware that the terms winning and losing are "perspectives", and nothing more. Maybe even "attitudes", I'm trying to figure out a healthy perspective that an extremely self competitive person can enter a contest with.  This is why I phrased this "How do different individuals learn to COPE with defeat" (assuming they perceive losing or not placing as defeat).

After the competition is over, it's OUR head we have to live with. How WE feel about ourselves. How we deal with Ego aspects.  Or as Jamkaraoke wisely mentioned, perhaps that's the problem..

"When people expect to be the best at something, that's when the problems start".

It's true !

So I begin to wonder, What actually is the purpose, or even importance of "Competition" ?  What are we expected to walk away from competition feeling ?
"False pride" ?  Someone sometime in the future will only mop the floor with our "fat head" down the road.  Yet maybe THAT'S something we should never lose site of ?

It's JUST a game ?  I'm aware it's OUR OWN ego we trip over, assuming we've allowed it to inflate to a point where we do in time feel our esteem has been severely deflated by someone elses performance "winning" in the perspective of other's over our own performance which we now deem as "sub-par". Yet is it possible for artists, or athletes that enter a competition NOT to have inflated ego's ?  What is it that drives a person to "compete"  anyway ?

Personally, I don't know.  I'm mulling this over as we discuss this. Trying to bounce this around because a question I have is, If the objective isn't to place or win, than why are we "competing" ?  What is the purpose of competition, what's the actual objective ?  What do we learn from it ? Perhap's the answer to "How do we cope with losing", lie's in learning what the actual purpose of competition is..

Is it to win ?  or develop character ?   I'm not a parent, but those of you that are.  What is it that you hope your children get out've "competitive events" when you enter them in this type of event ?  What are we supposed to experience ? I assume there MUST be something beyond what *I* view competition as which is kick someones butt, or get your butt kicked...  There's just something I must be missing.  Something I'm sure MANY are missing regarding the concept and psychology of competitive events, and the healthiest perspectives when involved in competition.  Isn't our WHOLE system in a sense conditioning us to compete from early on ?  The grading system ?  Pay scale ?  etc.    Seems we might get mixed messages.  While the goal is to get an "A"  (everyone dreads the C or C- at least as I recall)  We also learn that in life most of us will only place somewhere around "average"... Which is the "C".

A possible source of conflict is that while MANY of us pay lip service to the fact that in a given area (that we enjoy) we might on average place "4-8" rank, and we might think we accept that, (therefore receiving an 8.5 SHOULD for the most part leave us MORE than happy) when report card's come out MANY (as in the case of Singer's Showcase) although they "ask" for an honest rank, AREN'T honest enough with themselves to accept that they ever score beneath the B+ or A grade. IOW, they ARE saying (at least MANY, not all)... "If I compete at least give me an 8..otherwise you've bruised my ego"..  So like the school kid that throws the tantrum, they lose site of what's realistic and the grading party ends up throwing up their arms as if to say,  

"Look, If getting the A is what's important to you, HERE'S your A... Now are you happy ?  Because if this is what you really want out've the experience, it's easy enough to be dishonest and appease you giving you what you want, which is NOT a Critique, or honesty"....

In a sense, this is all OUR OWN self-competitive nature which we project.. When we compete, We HATE being average at something, don't we ?  I know I do.

While I analyze what it is that seem's to happen, it doesn't quell the "inner kid" in me that starts to pout and whine that, "You liked him more than you liked me, You don't like me anymore, How can I feel important unless it's about ME", *I* need to win, the hell with HIM".  Sure it's jeuvenile, yet *I* still feel it..  Therefore I want to make some changes... Learn not to be so egocentric that it's painful to even perform in any setting.  I wish I learned this stuff early on. It really at times hindered my love for music, and the arts...and what's worse, myself.

Maybe it's this simple, and I've missed the whole point.

"It's NOT whether you win or lose.  But how you play the game." I suppose I took my ball, and ran home. I didn't want to play any longer. I felt bullied. I missed the whole point.  If the point WASN'T to win. Why was I there anyway ?  I didn't want to be there, I didn't want to be reminded that I wasn't the best, I felt it served no productive purpose.

Sometimes it *OUR OWN* attitude, that needs to adjust.  This is what I'm attempting to do.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I like to do my best at every thing that I try my hand at. Years ago, back in university days I decided to take up swimming. When I started I can't even swim one lap. but I ended as the captain of the U swimming team. That was not enough so I took up an instructor course and become a swimming instructor and coach. Got myself qualified as a life guard and then as an Examiner for The Royal Life Saving Soc. Then I took up SCUBA diving and end up as an instructor.

Its the same when I started working. I wanted to be the best in my line of work. And in certain area of my specialization I am the best. Yet I know my limitation. No one can be good in all things even in their area of specialization. I can easily identify an animal track and tell you how old the track is, yet I can't identify some of the common forest birds visually. I have an almost photographic memory of place but I can remember song lyric and took me years to remember my house phone number.

I took up singing about 7 years ago. I started with a bad handicap; tone deaf. When I started my pitch was all over the place. Now I can at least know when I hit the note flat, Not good enough but that to me is progress. Give me 5 more years I will be able to sing with an almost perfect pitch; in the genre that I sing.

I have improved; thus I am a winner. I won over my last performance.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Very good Jian.  What I like about this is although you are self competitive, you allow yourself to win !  So there's reward for you, because you DO in fact win. You are able to recognize improvement, award yourself accordingly as opposed to beating yourself up for what you aren't.  In this respect, it seems it's hard NOT to win.  I never thought of competition as a means to see growth in YOU.. I focus too much on that which I have no control of..  The other person.  Problem I have Jian, is I'm the type of person who's never satisfied with where I am. I always feel there's someplace else I should be (yet I don't know where that is), I also feel that no matter what I do, it's not enough, or good enough.  I'm never satisfied.  It's maddening..

Incidently, although Scuba is something I know VERY little about, I found the following read absolutely fascinated.  When we talk about insatiable drive, read about the rebreather's..  The Dave Shaw story down in S. Africa.  Fascinating story about competition diving.. Boesmangat... 2nd deepest sinkhole in the world known and the 3rd deepest waterfilled cave... I guess there's a really deep one in Mexico called Zacation..

http://outside.away.com/outside/feature ... haw-1.html

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Right after Kenny Rogers made it big he was on a talk show.  He admitted he knew he wasn't the best singer out there.  He just happened to be in the right place at the right time.   There will always be someone better than you.   Just hope they don't show at your "whatever" audition that day.

Kenny Roger's also had some help.  The New Christy Minstrel's were a favorite of Kennedy's and LBJ...Made several White House appearances and consisted of excellent musicians such as Ramos of the association, Karen Carpenter even auditioned..Kim Karnes I think later joined in 1966 (which I find is kind've strange) but when he was with the First edition they had a few monster hits such as "I Just dropped in to see what condition my condition was in", and "Ruby, Don't take your love to Town"... Kenny Roger's likely made it because as you say, (in his particular case, being at the right place meant) he got in with a good group of artists, and wrote a few good hit's, was popular with the White House too....NOT because of his singing ability.. To write an emotionally charged song during the Viet Nam era like "Ruby, Don't take your love to town"(about the emotional pain of a paralyzed Vet) had alot to do with timing too, that song touched ALOT of people...

Didn't all of "The New Christy Minstrel's" end up making it big afterwards ?  Heck, Larry Ramos was the lead singer and guitarist for the Association (he still is in fact)... Windy, Cherish, Never my Love...

http://hometown.aol.com/hoodihoo/BIO.html

What I find humorous about this site, is it's "The Associations" home page, and it only has 370 hits (Of which I've been to it about 80)..

Not to mention, it's also on AOL  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".