Karaoke Forums

I guess I'm just in love with singing then, because I'd sing for free, anywhere, anytime, whether it's to a million NON paying concert goers or my family and friends. Actually, on my website I'm giving away cds just because I want people to hear my music. I'm asking for donations, but even if people don't donate, they can still get a cd. I'm not rich, but seriously, I'm not lying to people either and telling them that this is a studio produced, Celine Dion quality disc. If they like my voice and want to play it whenever they want then that's an honor.

Honestly, I think that sharing cds and being able to download music is probably to best way to spread the word about new singers and bands. And yeah, it would probably be nice to get paid every single time someone sings your song, or downloads your music, but with the million plus dollar contract that Mariah Carey has from her record label, should she really care? It doesn't hurt that most artist sell memorabilia at concerts that they profit from and that their concert tickets are in the hundreds of dollars nowadays.

_________________

So how long would you keep spending the money to go into the studio & giving away the final product - if you are doing it at home, then you aren't spending anything but your time & work, but still time=money?  I understand your view completely, giving away the product to "get it out there" is a way to quickly self promote your talent, but you can't sell yourself short either.  Just because you love to do something don't mean you shouldn't be compensated for your hard work - which many kj's fall into but that's another topic entirely.  
Metallica got their start by an underground network of "authorized" piracy (they used to give (and sell) their music away with the intent people would copy it & distribute to many to get it out in the very beginnings of their career) of their music, but then their hard work of promoting themselves paid off, record companies noticed & they got signed - making the real money - which was their intent all along.  Remember they were one of the MAIN reason Napster got shut down.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Unfortunately Matt every Copyright Act in the world is against you.  If it were for private or educational use, there is no problem, once you cross into the professional arena, there is.

Every country in the world has their version of BMI or ASCAP, here in Canada it is called SOCAN.

As Lonnie says it is a business, not a party or a free-for-all.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

that's true... but I wonder "why" that is? Why is it okay for home use, but not for commercial, merely because you're being paid does it no longer apply? What possible position were the lawmakers going by to take such a conseration into play?

Many of the discs I own are rare and discontinued. Even considering a guarantee, there's just no way I'm going to sacrifice these irreplacable products through normal wear and tear. The sheer amount of storage space is now reduced using computer files. Ease of operations...

The copyright law doesn't take these situations into account. When challenged, that's exactly what I'll say.

I hope you have a lot of money saved if you are ever hauled into court.   Defence is a very expensive proposition especially lawyers who charge $200/hr and up.  Now if you happen to lose or win in a lower court the next step upon appeal (and the recording companies have a heck of a lot more monry than you) is the next higher court and this could go on to the U.S Supreme Court in your case.

Why is it the way it is, is simple, it's a matter of compensation to the copyright holder.  By purchasing a disc once, the copyright holder is paid once.  You convert to another means then the copyright holder is not paid for that conversion.  As you know with maybe the exception of diamonds everything wears out or breaks.  When this happens the person hass to go out and buy a new one and this simply happens to be the way business is done, like it or not.  It is also assumed that a commercial venture is just that, commercial.  Ever see the wrapping on soap or other items that say "Not for resale" on them.  Why can't you sell them after buying them?

It's  not a matter of whether I agree with you or not (frankly I don't care as you don't affect me or my business), it is the law the way it stands now.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Better get rid of all your Garth Brooks karaoke cds too.......they are pirated

I was getting sick of friends in low places anywho

_________________
ROBDOG *WOOF WOOF*

No, they are NOT pirated.

He's changed his stance on his product... and retracted the permission he once gave out. I don't see HOW he can do this, when these companies paid out the ying-yang for it! But the copyright business IS a complicated thing.

I completely agree that one should be paid to do their job, even if they love it. You asked how long I would spend my time (because time equals money, right?) Singing's my life, so until it becomes a burden to me, I'd sing for free forever. The only reason I'd ask for money is because Joe Shmoe next door gets paid to sing and write songs, so why shouldn't I? But getting paid from record sales and getting paid from bar fees to have karaoke is two different methods of payments. Say I'm a Kenny Chesney and I just grossed 50.8 million in record sales (2004 stats). Do I really need that money from the bars?

_________________

hi iam new here my name is james brown as far as karaoke the cdg is not by the original artist so what do they have to gripe about .its in the style of

But why should a bar get to profit off of music be it karaoke, live band or dj just because they can play it.  How much the artist makes is not an issue, sure they make money - some LOTS of money, then some not so much.  That's where royalties come into play from radio, tv, bars, clubs, fairs, events, etc..  As far as a bar goes, they have to be licensed to play live music, dj, karaoke - these license fees go back to the artists.    
Again, if you would do it for free, i'm sure record companies would love that, they could market you to the hilt & collect all the money themselves.  
Got to figure touring takes alot of time & hard work.  Sometimes bands are out on the road half-3/4 of the year (sometimes more) - away from families & friends.    Having to do promotions sometimes at all hours available to do tv, radio & print interviews.  Very high stress making sure you do what you can to put on a good show night after night, keeping up strength in your vocals so you can continue to sing.  Bands/singers get taken for granted often with people thinking it's just a cushy job, the ones that "make it" know otherwise.  Hell even when I was doing shows with my band on the weekends (sometimes weeknights as well), it's alot more work than people think & these were small scale shows, but the practicing, mental & physical preperation for the shows are still basically the same.
I got into music because I loved it, I got into bands because I love making & playing music, I played nights for next to nothing in the hopes of getting a following so we could get better pay (which we eventually did).  Promoted ourselves, shopped our music to labels, I wouldn't go through all that trouble just because I love it, it's a job in which I would want to be paid once i'm there - including getting paid from the publishers I am affiliated with from the bars, clubs, radio, tv, bands, etc... I could do it for free, but if the potential for money is there, that is where I would be.

_________________
LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I believe we had a discussion regarding "legal" vs what's considered "Pirating" downloaded songs, or copying recorded music not too long ago in here, even for personal use (not to leave your home). Analog (cassette tape) format IS NOT subject to the same terms when it comes to making recordings even for home use, or personal backup (home recording laws using tape are more lax), etc as CD (more conditions) or computer drive digital downloading (pretty strict) since around 1992... Here's an interesting article that touches on the intricacies.

http://reviews.cnet.com/4520-10165_7-5798512-1.html

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Then why would the stores have to ship the cds back?....you'd think the manufacturer just couldn't make anymore.....not pull the ones already made off the shelves; furhtermore, if he entered into a contract, he can't just change his mind.....and that is precisely what you are saying........they don't take a stance.....they sign a binding piece of paper

I recall some rock stars, as well as a few others such as Garth Brooks were trying to get the used CD stores for RESELLING their music without paying additional royalties. The ruling from the courts was basically no go I think.  Is that what you were referring to about Garth Brooks ?  His attempt at getting resellers to pay royalties ?

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Just like ANYTHING that get recalled.  Something happened (usually something wrong, but sometimes a change of mind from the person that released the product) that made them want to pull their product.  Alanis Morrisette is another prime example as are any of the Seattle grunge bands.  They control the rights to what they own - contract or not, it can be changed!

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Blastfromthepast, it doesn't matter who originally recorded a song, it is the copyright holder of the song.  A copyright holder owns the song regardless of the arrangement or changes in it and therefore entitled to payment as such.

When anybody does a song either as an artist or a karaoke company laying down tracks only, they have to pay royalties to the copyright holder.

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

It seems to me the simple solution to all the debate is for ASCAP/BMI to come up with a token liscencing fee for KJ's, say maybe $200 a year(cost of doing business item), and as part of the fee agreement the KJ is allowed to either make 1 "WORKING COPY" of all thier CD's/lasers OR a single load of all their CD's/lasers onto a SINGLE laptop/computer as that "WORKING COPY. Any second reproductions could be a second fee. End of discussion.A  solution that would work for all. Perhaps the fee could be structured based on song catalog size.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

ASCAP/BMI do not have the authority to allow 1:1 cpoting or format shifting or anything else.  All they do is collect the fees.  If you want changes you'll have to go to your Representive or Senator in the US or Member of Parliament in Canada or Britain, to change the Copyright Act.

Canada has just revamped the Copyright Act and 1:1 or format shifting for commercial reasions are still illegal.

W.I.P.O World Intellectual Property Organization which is part of the UN also has a big say in this.  So it's not a matter of technology, rather a matter of protection of the copyright holder.  Here is their site:

http://www.wipo.int/portal/index.html.en

_________________
You can be strange but not a stranger

Well then whatever LEGISTLATIVE body responsible should gather the copyright agencies, karaoke representatives and manufacturers and hammer out a WORKABLE arrangement. Seems a simple enough proposition. But simply going on as it is will benefit NO ONE. Time to cut the crap and get an agrement that can satisfy all partys.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Well then whatever LEGISTLATIVE body responsible should gather the copyright agencies, karaoke representatives and manufacturers and hammer out a WORKABLE arrangement. Seems a simple enough proposition. But simply going on as it is will benefit NO ONE. Time to cut the crap and get an agrement that can satisfy all partys.

_________________
"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT