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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:59 am 
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Drinking is legal.  Being in public is legal.  Do you have the right to get drunk and act like an a$$.
 Not in public
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Sure you do as long as you don't "interfere" with other's peoples drunk.
What does that mean?
Quote:
Do you have the right to drive in that condition?  absolutely not.
Problem is that when people get drunk, they think they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Ask anyone who is drunk, and they will proudly claim that they can still drive. Why don't you spend some time reading MADD

ok What Now @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 9:08 am wrote:
not sure if ALL agree with me but i think we should hang up Shyguy by the B--s...
not sure who u r but man u suck the life out of people.....go get drunk r something, so i can sue ur A--......you take care now ya hear?
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I agree with ok what now. Why does shy guy have to be so vicious in his attacks on people's comments, yet when a comment is made about buy a sense of humor, he gets offended.
You want the truth, let's see how YOU feel when one of your kids get killed because he was struck by a drunken driver. You have no idea what that feels like, do you? May the good Lord be with you that it never happens either.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:03 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:59 pm wrote:
You want the truth, let's see how YOU feel when one of your kids get killed because he was struck by a drunken driver. You have no idea what that feels like, do you?


If that is the case, then I'm sorry for your loss, and can understand your upset.

However, NO MATTER HOW EMOTIONALLY you are personally involved in this issue, it still comes down to an abridgement of rights.  Rights...NOT privileges!!  This is NOT supposed to be a police state, but it is quickly turning into one!

Did I not remember this correctly from school?  "Government of the People, for the People, by the People..."?  We do NOT have to ask permission of the government to exercise our rights!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:09 am 
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Lil Mizz Attitude @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 10:02 am wrote:
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I agree with ok what now. Why does shy guy have to be so vicious in his attacks on people's comments, yet when a comment is made about buy a sense of humor, he gets offended.


To each his own, it's not the first time someone has stated their opinion so baldly, and certainly wont be the last.


"someone has stated their opinion so baldly"
 Well I think there's still a couple of hairs on his avatar's head.

Maybe the police should do an even earlier preemptive strike and set up "watchdogs"
at the liquor stores.  Anybody purchasing more than one bottle is probably going to be causing some trouble down the line.  And if you purchase Rum 151 or Wild Turkey, well, do not pass go, you're busted. :shock:

Where do you draw the line? Who has the final say on deciding these things?


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:10 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:59 pm wrote:
[
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Do you have the right to drive in that condition?  absolutely not.
Problem is that when people get drunk, they think they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Ask anyone who is drunk, and they will proudly claim that they can still drive. Why don't you spend some time reading MADD



I worked for MADD in Hurst Texas at their first world headquarters in the 80's.  I knew Candi Lightner then(the founder of MADD) I aggree with what she started..  She brought an awareness to Drunk Driving that was never seen before.

I can also tell you that Ms. Lightener was no angel back then...We would go out after the office closed and have adult beverages...She would have her fair share and be over the legal limit we have these days....But she never,nor did anyone who was with her, ever get behind the wheel of a car.  It would look like a Taxi Cab convention when we would all leave to go home.....

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:11 am 
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SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:03 am wrote:
However, NO MATTER HOW EMOTIONALLY you are personally involved in this issue, it still comes down to an abridgement of rights.  Rights...NOT privileges!!
Tell that to the person burying his kid.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:14 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:11 pm wrote:
SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:03 am wrote:
However, NO MATTER HOW EMOTIONALLY you are personally involved in this issue, it still comes down to an abridgement of rights.  Rights...NOT privileges!!
Tell that to the person burying his kid.


Yes, that is a horrible situation.....There is a thread here in this forum called "Bad thing happen in bars"  With a very good example of someone trying to help someone who had too much to drink....

I'll bump it to the top

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:15 am 
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Isis @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:10 pm wrote:
ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:59 pm wrote:
[
Quote:
Do you have the right to drive in that condition?  absolutely not.
Problem is that when people get drunk, they think they are 10 feet tall and bullet proof. Ask anyone who is drunk, and they will proudly claim that they can still drive. Why don't you spend some time reading MADD



I worked for MADD in Hurst Texas at their first world headquarters in the 80's.  I knew Candi Lightner then(the founder of MADD) I aggree with what she started..  She brought an awareness to Drunk Driving that was never seen before.

I can also tell you that Ms. Lightener was no angel back then...We would go out after the office closed and have adult beverages...She would have her fair share and be over the legal limit we have these days....But she never,nor did anyone who was with her, ever get behind the wheel of a car.  It would look like a Taxi Cab convention when we would all leave to go home.....


That's the ENTIRE problem I have with the "roundup" they've been doing around here!!

For 20-some years, we get "Use a Designated Driver" or "Take a Cab" or whatever...the message was always "Drink Responsibly".  But now, the government is stepping in and saying that we have to have our hands held...that we are incapable of acting in a responsible manner.  So, even if you've got a DD, or have called a cab, or if you're walking from the hotel bar upstairs to your room, you're not doing enough.  

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:22 am 
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Isis @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:14 am wrote:
Yes, that is a horrible situation.....There is a thread here in this forum called "Bad thing happen in bars"  With a very good example of someone trying to help someone who had too much to drink....
I'll bump it to the top
Thank you Isis. That is exactly what I mean. Sad, very sad, now let's see if we can replace his life with, hmmmmm let's say an abridgement of rights. I'm sure if he had a wife and kids they would feel much better knowing that!

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:25 am 
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If an officer of the law suspects you being intoxicated, he can take you in, you don’t have to be over the limit. On another note, what would the reason be for a lawsuit?


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Isis: Being in a bar does not exempt one from the state laws against public intoxication.
That’s the law, drunk in public, and it does not give the cops too much power, they just enforce the law. Why do you have to get drunk in the first place? Can’t you just enjoy a few drinks without getting stupidly drunk?


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Keith02: Now you guys understand why I built the disco/bar at home.....Yep, I got a dance pole, lights and sound all at home
A Disco? , that is sooooo 80’s!  I guess you have a lot of Cleanex tissues and hand lotion as well.


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Steven Kaplan: How do they determine "arrest-worthy intoxication" though Rich?
There are simple tests like the touch your nose or walk the line.


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Steven Kaplan: Assume I go out, have a limp, or perhaps a slight balance problem, have a speech impediment to begin with, yet have a designated driver, meaning I have NO intent on getting behind the wheel of a car?
Assumption is the mother of all F*ck-up’s. Most people don’t have all the symptoms you just mentioned.  You are just trying to justify 1% of the population. Why ask so many questions? Let the cops pick them up, and apologize later if you made a mistake.


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Steven Kaplan: Sobriety checkpoints are the way to go, not to invade the space...
It’s normally to late then.


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Steven Kaplan: I DO NOT want to blow into the breathalyzer. Assuming I must submit to a test, to me this is a CLEAR violation.
If I can save 1 life by “violating” you “rights” then I really don’t give a $hit about your bruised little ego.


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Isis: I can certainly see where he would be singled out if they even say hello to him.....And that would be a huge lawsuit waiting to happen....
ANOTHER f*cking lawsuit! What is up with the people just trying to sue someone?  What is up with using words like “lawsuit” and “unconstitutional”?



LMAO

    It's all fun and games, until one of us storms into a bar (undercover here, but in reality we are cops but Tony is striking nerves) SO we can now arrest Tony for being a pain-in-the-a$$ using the guise "I ASSUMED you were drunk, you couldn't recite the alphabet backwards in under 10 seconds", now of course we know in the United States police are always 100% honest and accurate, AND NEVER abuse authority so in this case Tony must be drunk because WE SAY SO, and worst case scenerio we will apologise afterward for breaking his arms and legs too, becuase naturally when we say "Tony tried to resist arrest and we only used a necessary amount of force to apprehend him" it's true !!!!  It's our perception that he tried to resist arrest (even though in reality he was never even intoxicated or resisted us, yet we will just apologise afterwards).. Because we are cops, and have been given the chance to abuse authority, we will because WE CAN. Heck, if I can save one Karaoke room from someone who's attempting to "disturb the peace" in my perception, who cares about his bruised little ego, broken legs, arms and instigatory comments where he pretends he's using standard debate tactics... We just apologise afterwards because we are cops, WE CAN OVERPOWER HIM, and will abuse him, and pretend it's a MISTAKE....

Sorry Tony !  YOU in this case have recourse, and can retort..  In your world you have no recourse, we were cops and decided to attack you... but OOPS,  we were wrong,  SORRY...  enjoy your studio now, if you can that is...it's a drag to play keyboards with broken wrists !!!  You will receive no compensatory damages, and there are no punitive damages for OUR poor judgement though.. We were using authority given to us by law.... The onus is now on you to show we were descriminating against you... GOOD LUCK..

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:28 am 
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SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:15 am wrote:
That's the ENTIRE problem I have with the "roundup" they've been doing around here!!

For 20-some years, we get "Use a Designated Driver" or "Take a Cab" or whatever...the message was always "Drink Responsibly".  But now, the government is stepping in and saying that we have to have our hands held...that we are incapable of acting in a responsible manner.  So, even if you've got a DD, or have called a cab, or if you're walking from the hotel bar upstairs to your room, you're not doing enough.  
SingingSquid , for a change you make sense and I can actually discuss something meaningful with you. How many people do you know that know the meaning of "Drink Responsibly"? It would not be necessary for the cops to go to those extremes of power-play. I for one cannot say what they do is right, but if it saves just 1 life, they have my support.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:30 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:22 pm wrote:
Isis @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:14 am wrote:
Yes, that is a horrible situation.....There is a thread here in this forum called "Bad thing happen in bars"  With a very good example of someone trying to help someone who had too much to drink....
I'll bump it to the top
Thank you Isis. That is exactly what I mean. Sad, very sad, now let's see if we can replace his life with, hmmmmm let's say an abridgement of rights. I'm sure if he had a wife and kids they would feel much better knowing that!


Once again, I say that yes, that IS a tragic situation.  HOWEVER, punish those responsible for those tragedies as individuals.  Don't punish those who ARE acting in a responsible manner for something they MIGHT do if they weren't acting in a responsible manner.

I really don't feel like we're arguing the same point at all, here ShyGuy.  I am by no means saying that anyone has the right to negligently take a life, which, by implication, is what you seem to think of me.

I DO understand the concept of a preemptive strike...I just happen to think that this one is going a bit far.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:32 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:22 pm wrote:
Isis @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:14 am wrote:
Yes, that is a horrible situation.....There is a thread here in this forum called "Bad thing happen in bars"  With a very good example of someone trying to help someone who had too much to drink....
I'll bump it to the top
Thank you Isis. That is exactly what I mean. Sad, very sad, now let's see if we can replace his life with, hmmmmm let's say an abridgement of rights. I'm sure if he had a wife and kids they would feel much better knowing that!


It is horrible however, with our judicial system the way it is, I'm sure that his family will be sueing the bar, the driver and everyone else to try and make them pay for this senseless death....And it doesnt really matter if or who they sue..that fact still reamins that a very good person lost his life to someone who was careless..And he will never be with his family again and cannot be brought back....And we could also look at it that he gave his life in an attempt to save others...However, It wasn't like he donated a kidney or something like that to save someone...

Perhaps this incident is one of the catalyst for the TABC doing what they are doing now...Who knows???

I don't know....There do need to be checks and balances with this whole public intoxication thing....

Just some wild ideas to help prevent this type of thing:

1. No parking lots at bars.

2. When you get to a bar you give them your keys when you order your first drink, take a breath test before you get your keys...over the limit you get a cab called and the driver gives you your keys when you get home...

3.  Responsible bartenders...They are bar tenders they see what is going on and they know how much you've drank...

Anyone else have any inovative ideas on how this could be improved????

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am 
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Steven Kaplan @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:25 am wrote:
It's all fun and games, until one of us storms into a bar (undercover here, but in reality we are cops but Tony is striking nerves) SO we can now arrest Tony for being a pain-in-the-a$$ using the guise "I ASSUMED you were drunk, you couldn't recite the alphabet backwards in under 10 seconds", now of course we know in the United States police are always 100% honest and accurate, AND NEVER abuse authority so in this case Tony must be drunk because WE SAY SO, and worst case scenerio we will apologise afterward for breaking his arms and legs too, becuase naturally when we say "Tony tried to resist arrest and we only used a necessary amount of force to apprehend him" it's true !!!!  It's our perception that he tried to resist arrest (even though in reality he was never even intoxicated or resisted us, yet we will just apologise afterwards).. Because we are cops, and have been given the chance to abuse authority, we will because WE CAN. Heck, if I can save one Karaoke room from someone who's attempting to "disturb the peace" in my perception, who cares about his bruised little ego, broken legs, arms and instigatory comments where he pretends he's using standard debate tactics... We just apologise afterwards because we are cops, WE CAN OVERPOWER HIM, and will abuse him, and pretend it's a MISTAKE....

Yes that's good Steven, let's have a good laugh at this  :wave: , but as I said before

You want the truth, let's see how YOU feel when one of your kids get killed because he was struck by a drunken driver. You have no idea what that feels like, do you? May the good Lord be with you that it never happens either. but if it does, and once again, may the Lord be with you that it never happens, let me know how you feel, will you?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:28 pm wrote:
SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:15 am wrote:
That's the ENTIRE problem I have with the "roundup" they've been doing around here!!

For 20-some years, we get "Use a Designated Driver" or "Take a Cab" or whatever...the message was always "Drink Responsibly".  But now, the government is stepping in and saying that we have to have our hands held...that we are incapable of acting in a responsible manner.  So, even if you've got a DD, or have called a cab, or if you're walking from the hotel bar upstairs to your room, you're not doing enough.  
SingingSquid , for a change you make sense and I can actually discuss something meaningful with you. How many people do you know that know the meaning of "Drink Responsibly"? It would not be necessary for the cops to go to those extremes of power-play. I for one cannot say what they do is right, but if it saves just 1 life, they have my support.


And THAT is where we part ways!  I AGREE with the goal and the ideal...but the tactics used are over the top!  A lot of these people arrested WERE following the message...there were people on the news this morning where their DD was trying to calm them down as the TABC and cops were busting them...a couple of people were going no further than down the hall...HOW ON EARTH does that constitute being "a danger to themselves or others"?  Why, suddenly, now is it not good enough to BE responsible?

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:41 am 
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SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am wrote:
And THAT is where we part ways!
I hate to say this, and don't quote me, but you might just be right. I am over-sensitive when it come to this matter.  :oops: for a good reason. Sorry.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:47 am 
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You want the truth, let's see how YOU feel when one of your kids get killed because he was struck by a drunken driver. You have no idea what that feels like, do you? May the good Lord be with you that it never happens either. but if it does, and once again, may the Lord be with you that it never happens, let me know how you feel, will you?


That is a tragedy. Noone EVER stated otherwise Tony. MANY that were arrested under this current new law were not driving, they didn't even have a car at THAT hotel bar area. At least one lady was an out of state person who didn't even drive, she had no car or license. She DIDN'T even need to walk stairs to get to the room she was staying at in the hotel who's bar she had a few drinks in !!  These people were arbitrarily targeted, and had NO say !   There's NOTHING funny about this circumstance either Tony !  How does this pertain to "driving and drinking" ?

If anyone understands the danger's of alcohol it's me.. Yet I also understand that the police should not be trusted with unlimited, and unconditional authority where they are allowed to use subjective means to arbitrarily "bust". Why should I as an adult in the United States become obsequious to abuse and corruption ?
Why should the police be allowed to "do as they please" with little to no accountability ?  

.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:48 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:41 pm wrote:
SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am wrote:
And THAT is where we part ways!
I hate to say this, and don't quote me, but you might just be right. I am over-sensitive when it come to this matter.  :oops: for a good reason. Sorry.


No need to apologize...I do understand your reasoning AND your vehemence on the issue of DWI...and agree with you.  My younger sister's best friend was killed by a drunk driver at age 10.  As her big brother, and knowing Jess too, it still hurts, almost 20 years later.

That's why in the post prior to that last one, I said I didn't think we were really arguing the same point.  

Like I said, I understand the goal of preemption to keep DWI accidents from happening.  There's GOT to be a better way, though, is my bottom line.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:52 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 1:41 pm wrote:
SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am wrote:
And THAT is where we part ways!
I hate to say this, and don't quote me, but you might just be right. I am over-sensitive when it come to this matter.  :oops: for a good reason. Sorry.


I am glad you are over sensative....This is America and we need to see all points of view...this is what gives us good debates and opens peoples eyes to other views...This is a good thing....Thank you for sharing your views....

I am sorry/saddened at the same time that you are over sensative...This gives the indication that someone you care very much for has been hurt very badly by someone that did not use good judgement...And noone can take that pain away.....ever......And noone should ever have to experience that kind of pain.....

If this pain had never been felt by anyone then we would not have the laws that we do that govern drunk driving today...and those laws are good...IMHO...They have prevented alot of people from being injured or killed over the years...

Here's a big hug for you :hug:  :hug:

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:53 am 
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ShyGuy @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:41 am wrote:
SingingSquid @ Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:36 am wrote:
And THAT is where we part ways!
I hate to say this, and don't quote me, but you might just be right. I am over-sensitive when it come to this matter.  :oops: for a good reason. Sorry.


It sounds like something tragic happened.  Sorry if it did.  This is obviously a
very emotional topic.  It's next to impossible to be totally objective.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 24, 2006 12:07 pm 
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Steven Kaplan - At least one lady was an out of state person who didn't even drive, she had no car or license. She DIDN'T even need to walk stairs to get to the room she was staying at in the hotel who's bar she had a few drinks in !!  These people were arbitrarily targeted, and had NO say !   There's NOTHING funny about this circumstance either Tony !  How does this pertain to "driving and drinking”?
I agree with you Steven, it’s not right and there IS NO connection between the above mentioned and DWI or DUI.
ps: why are you calling me Tony?

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Steven Kaplan - Why should I as an adult in the United States become obsequious to abuse and corruption?
You should not have to, agreed.

Quote:
Steven Kaplan - Why should the police be allowed to "do as they please" with little to no accountability?
They probably try to justify their actions because they see all the unnecessary violence and unnecessary deaths on a daily basis.

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SingingSquid - That's why in the post prior to that last one, I said I didn't think we were really arguing the same point.
I tend to loose perspective when this comes up.

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SingingSquid - There's GOT to be a better way, though, is my bottom line.
An Utopia my friend, that's what you are looking for.

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Isis - …………………
You are a good person.

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Odie -  It's next to impossible to be totally objective.
Close, but it is actually impossible to be totally objective, thank you though for trying to understand.

This is a good time for me to leave this subject. :wave:

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