Karaoke Forums

Hon, ETF's(exchange traded funds) are a perfect place to be if they allow you a selection of different and varied funds...your 401K funds are most likely made up of ETF's...Each ETF is a collection of stocks that are proven winners and usually fairly secure....If your 401K offers you a selection of different funds and they allow you to shift your funds around tween them (large and small caps and international stuff), then start there....If not, then consider shifting your 401K into one that does.

Right now our country is terribly in debt and the USD is struggling against the Euro and Yen...We are fighting off takeover of not only our major ports, but also important parts of our defense industry by Arab investors....and we are also very dependant on Arab oil...And there is a big risk of another 9/11 or even bigger event....This is not a great time to have your money in blue chip American stocks...

So, first get familar with your 401K and then work within it if it offers a broad selection  of investments...At least call the folks and talk to them...Don't be intimidated by you lack of understanding...As soon as you ask your first question and get the first answer, you are smarter and less imtimidated.

P>S. consider joining a local investment club...they meet usually weekly and play with both real money and fake funds....Either way, it's very interesting.

Thanks Keith...I am very familiar with my 402k...Ans I keep a pretty close eye on it..I have money spread out over some very conservative investment funds and some that are more risky...I like messing with it and watching my money grow...

I would like to have a separate account from my 401K somewhere that I can do some additional investing...I don't wanna have all my eggs in one basket and I'd like to see more of diversified portfolio...I don't know maybe invest in pork bellies or OJ or K-mart and Microsoft..Although Microsoft hasn't been very good in quite a few years.....(the ex works for them and he is always complaining about the price of the stock - apparently hasn't split in quite a while)

thanks

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

You see Keith, this is the difference, YES I Bonds are LOW RISK. and relatively low interest, yet MANY don't want to risk losing their principle, they can't afford to risk it, so they tie it up for a duration in favor of a slightly higher assured interest rate. I forgot the difference between treasury notes, EE bonds, etc.. I really don't recall this, yet the folks returned from 3 weeks down in Florida just tonight, so within the next few days we'll be discussing our tax stuff, and I'll get an idea what's what now..  I can understand that you would wish to take other routes Keith !  A little rollercoastering as you say adds some spice...   I lose my stomach on rollercoasters tho   , I might even jump off the damn things in desperation !!!

Some invest conservatively,  others take risks.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Currently I-Bonds pay 6.73%.

Key word being were.

Only true if you leave all your money in them. I-Bonds are a good diversification option against SC.

Morningstar is your best bet. Try the 14 day free trial! The Premium Membership is $135/year, but if you go through Fidelity, you get it for $83/year.

It will have to be a taxable account. You can always invest in a ROTH (max $4k/year) but it's not wise to do that unless you have maxed out your 401K. Remember maxing out your 401K will give you the best tax advantage for now. Your concern about all my eggs in one baske is very valid, but the only way to make sure you have a good deiversed portfolio, is to use something like M*'s X-Ray to see what your  %'s of allocation is.

A split is not always the best thing. Another thing, Microsoft's (MSFT) latest closing was about $27.15. Why would you want to split? It's a cheap stock.

A 6.73% return is NOT low. Very few, if anyone's portfolio will return double digits, and if your return is betwenn 6% & 8%, you have no reason to complain.

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

I've tried for a long time to get people I know invested in stock.  What I eventually figured out is that most of them don't have the stomach for it; when they lose a little value, they panic and sell, and then after the price has risen, they buy, so they're always selling low and buying high.  If they'd do good research and diversify a bit, they could just buy a few solid stocks and not think about it for a few years.

One of the most important things you can do as an investor is figure out what your risk tolerance is.  Even if your investments are doing great, if you can't sleep at night because you're worrying about losing it all, it isn't worth it.

For beginning investors, I recommend the Motley Fool (google to find their website) to start educating yourself on the basics of the world of personal finance.

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

I was kidding about my comment about this being a karaoke board and not having need for investing thread-- yeah, some of the threads can be a bit goofy <duck and cover>

On I bonds -- they're a variable return that is made up of a fixed rate + a variable rate which adjusts twice a year.  As noted above-- currently 6.73.  They're not exactly liquid though.  Depending on how long you hold and when you sell, you may give up 3 months interest.

As I mentioned in my earlier post-- timing the market is alot of luck.  So if you're going to do that, be aware of the risks (see some scary stories above).  My approach is to balance the risk across my portfolio so I get some stuff that may be flyers but some that will grow well over time.

Pick an investment strategy and diversify a bit.  Get rich quick is few and far between.  Big question on this stuff is -- can you afford to lose the money you've got invested?  If not, play it safe-- moderation.

I noted a comment above about Mutual funds being fairly safe-- they're not necessarily.  In those cases you're banking on the fund manager to make the right calls on stocks and you're paying for it in fees and potentially loads. Some beat the market but many don't.   The fund managers may be trading alot to get the returns but many of them can tend to balance to the index they are trying to match later in the year so they look good.

On ETFs- you're just buying a basket of stocks that match the index or focus of the fund.   Good thing is they're usually really low maint. costs.  But at the same time they're fairly liquid.

Personally, I find bond too be too conservative. As an investor, you really need to know your tolerances. Usually, as you get older, your portfolio should be more conservative, ie bonds more than security. I find that despite the bubble warning, real estate provides the safest long term investment around. You can see the trends in last 100 years of steady 5% growth. Recently, it's been crazy of course, specially where I am. For example, my house that I purchased in 1999 has tripled in value. It just boggles my mind.

If you catch the right wave, you can make a lot of money in speculative security, such as options. I missed my cycle this time around but my friend who got in about a year ago just got out after the volatile market went from $100,000 to about $450,000 doing day trading options. I personally went from $2,000 to at high of $47,500 in 2000 in 8 month time period. Of course, I most much of that other than my BMW I purchased. However, it's not uncommon to see your value triple and quadtruple overnight investing on options. Of course, unlike stock, you can wipe it down to zero value overnight too.

As I stated before, it's a risky business that could return nice gains, if you know what to do. Usually, it's good to keep track of the industry that you know. Nice thing about options, or stocks to a degree for that matter, is that you can make money both ways, when the value goes up or down. More up or down you make money on options. You don't make money when it sits at the same place.

I am by no means expert in this. I also don't risk all I have. I have a decent size 401k that I keep adding to it. My speculative trading is on the side with money that if I lose it, I won't lose sleep over it.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Yes,  but in MY particular location had you purchased a house in 1987-1990 you'd have been in pretty bad shape had you wanted to sell until around the past year (to just break even). You'd have to make up the loss on the buying end.  The market was HORRIBLE throughout the 1990's.  You bought during a recovery period.  So assuming you purchased your home in the mid-late 1990's when things were very bad, and sold around now, things would've doubled to tripled in value. Things currently (and fortuneately) around here have been creeping up quite steadily SO-FAR over the past 5 or-so years. Had you bought that same home around 1990 you'd likely still be waiting for the seller's market to reach the point it was at when you initially purchased around 1990. This was a VERY bad period with a very slow recovery for anyone that wanted to sell in the 1990's

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I guess that's regional thing because the house market in this area has never been that slow. To give you an example, a typical house around here can be purchased in late 70's for about $125,000. During the mid-late 90's that house was about $250,000. That same house is over $650,000. I look at real estate as long term investment and at least in this region, it's been a great investment for most if not all of us. I can understand that it varies by region but look up the data in your area for last 20-50 years and see if there is a trend. I would bet that there is an upwards trend of about 5% per year on the average. That's what I am looking for.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Yes eben,  You are in the Silicon Valley !   Where I am in CT. The economy has been hurting since United Technologies, and ESPECIALLY the Insurace capital "Hartford" started hurting in the 80's..  There really aren't great jobs in this area,  not much to draw a person to CT these days.. If a person lives in an area where job market, and pay scale are commensurate with cost of living of course, there's more of a demand to be in such a location.. Here things just haven't been good.

Do you recall around 15 years ago they were calling the 90's slump an L-shaped recession ?   I have no idea what we actually had in the 90's, yet at one point for instance... Homes (and an example) my one bed room condo I bought for 53K cash in 1981,  in 1979 they closed at around 39K,  In 1990 they were up to 125K,  yet 1996 you'd be lucky to get 35K.... and thing's didn't start recovering until around 2000.... Now a one bedroom condo here is selling for perhaps 100K,  so in the past 10 years there's been a tremendous increase,  yet people are freaking out, and trying VERY hard to sell now... THey've gotten a taste of how sensitive and unpredictable the market can be... Yet still, the job market is NOTHING like it was in the 1970's and prior here in CT... In very specific areas of Groton/ New London there's the submarine base, electric boat... and now two large Casino's, but besides teaching jobs,  there just isn't much in CT.. The people that live and move to many area's in CT have money.. In some cases second generation money.. Baby boomer's with inheritances etc.  Yet good paying jobs that will support some of these 750K to 4 Mil homes around here. NOPE..    VERY few that have money are staying around here.. As they get older they move out to San Diego    Florida where the cost of living and taxes are lower, etc.  Which of course includes a few of our Real Estate TYcoons, who fled CT. on felony charges and got real-estate in Florida, which is a state where the gov't can't attach or touch your personal property.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I guess I'm fortunate here in central Louisiana that my home appreciates at a steady 5-7%/year no matter what is happening elsewhere.....I think the first ex finally discovered why I fought her so hard for the house in the divorce...I bought it at a greatly undervalued price 7 years before we divorced, and it is worth more than twice that now.....Heh, heh.

There is an old rule gents...."You should make your money when you buy something, not when you sell it."

What that means is...never buy anything at present market value....Always look for a steal or keep you money in your pocket until one comes along.....That way you make money as soon as you buy it.....If you have to unload it, then you will come out ok.

That's pretty much how I've always been about ALOT of things in life Keith, I like to call it being "frugal".. I buy stuff off season, end of season... Don't wait til I absolutely need something in most cases to buy it.  I buy something I know I'll eventually need when it's just at too good a price not to buy.... Fortuneately I have a huge storage area... Yet I refuse to "pad" any retailer's pocket paying higher retail when there isn't a need to,  some call this "bad economy",  I don't care   ..

I have a brother in law that has a money tree in his back yard,  he can afford to purchase cutting edge toys..  I usually stay about 15 years behind "cutting edge",  It's about what I can afford.  I suppose if I was loaded with money, I might value my time more in terms of $$$$ spent taking time trying to save a dollar here and there, and not comparison shop, yet I have time, and don't have money.... I save ALOT on the buying end !  and not smoking, drinking etc.... basically not having a life...My savings adds up, and this amounts to a pizza and diet coke I can afford come year end !  :)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

A little advice for those who play the market, Tim Horton's has or will be very shortly offering their IPO.  The price has gone up even before the the sale began.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I sure do remember that. I purchased my home right before that time and for a year it went down about 10% and I was biting my nails. I couldn't sell it because I was under the water (not that I was going to sell it). After that year, it recovered quickly and have been going up steadily ever since then.



One thing about IPO, only way to make money on IPO is if you are insider or have very good relationship with your broker. IPOs are one of biggest scam, at least from the average investor's point of view, of security market.

First of all, if the company is hot, the day of the IPO only limited number of shares will come for sale. Most of the insiders  are forbidden to sell their shares for up to 6 months after the IPO, that's in their contract. So, most of the sales will come from reserves that company is selling to stock up on cash or VCs/Angels. If the company if really hot, like Google, very few of these guys will sell shares since they know the price will be driven up. So, you will be lucky to find any shares at the start of IPO day.

Those shares that comes for sale, the brokers who gets limited supplies to sell, they will most likely go to institutional investors, like mutual funds or retirement funds since they contribute to most of the broker's income. Average investors like us will most likely never see any IPO share until the prices have gone through the roof and those profit takers starts to unload.

If you are really lucky, you get in with the company going public and get in on the share.  For me, I had a family member who worked for Paypal and they offered friends and family members to get in to IPO before they went public on limited basis. I was able to get 100 shares at pre-IPO prices and held on until I needed the money and sold them for a handsome profit. However, that's a rare case. One lesson, it's never too late to be nice to family members or friends who work for pre-IPO company.

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Seize the day and SING!!!

Eben, many a truth spoken here about IPO's Good information.

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

Yep.....Behringer was all set with their IPO last summer, then for some reason they suspended it.....I'm thinking it was cause FCC was on their arse and maybe they are having more problems with copyright lawyers that we haven't heard about...yet.

Right now I'm staying with the ETF's cause they are working out really well....This March Madness whood d whoop has me sitting it out for now, tho.

Yehaw!....I dove into all stocks last night night after that disastrous closing bell....Glad I did....I went 50% small caps in the Wilshire 4500 and 50% international in the EAF....I bet the whole wad, 50/50 in each.....And they are screaming straight up !

I should be outside raking leaves, but I'll sit here and watch the action....3 hours till closing...If this keeps up, I'll let it ride one more day and get out tomorrow afternoon.

Hiya Keith.  :wave:

And....... how is MY stock doing?  LOL

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I consider you a very high risk investment.

Very true, very true......... I reckon I would be.  :reddevil:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥