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And do you think it was appalling or a case of bad judgment, TopherM? Did it make you a bad person? I don’t think so.

Look at the amount of people here with DUI’s or DWI’s. That is appalling. Ever since I can remember we had wine at the dinner table, and we (us kids) would have a (much smaller) glass with our parents. I don’t abuse alcohol; I don’t drink and drive either, probably thanks to the fact that I was brought up being showed what my responsibility was with the use (and not abuse) of an alcoholic beverage.

Exactly...personal responcibility is not America's strong suit. It is a lingering Puritan mindset.

The same that is true for the resoncibilities of alchohol in the US is true for sexual responcibility. In Europe, they are open about sex with their children from a young age, and therefore the topic is always up for discussion without it being a "sensitive" topic. As a result, they don't have the extent of sexual disfunction and sexual crime that we have.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Odie, with what was just said by TopherM, I here-by rest my case. I could not have said it any better, thank you Chris.

Neither did I "have" to get married (like a huge % of people) or have a child born in wedlock (is that the right word?), I grew up seeing the occasional breast or bare butt on TV, but at the same time was taught responsibility. Here a nipple slip or wardrobe malfunction get's everyone up in arms, because of the permanent damage the kid will have by seeing a bit of flesh, but the same kid can play the meanest bloodiest video game, or get his underaged g/f pregnant, or do drugs and the parents are OK with that, because of some guilty feeling they have.  :puke:

Sorry, but this whole conversation just made me realise that I want to vomit.

And remember they give "A" glass of wine or "A" glass of beer with a meal.  They're not plying them with liters of the stuff, getting them drunk.  Maybe we should do the same here and take the "mystery" or "taboo" of it all out.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Excellent point Timberlea

ShyGuy,  What country in europe did you grow up in ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

NEVERMIND........  :oops:

Hehe......


"Had to edit....."  :D

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Steven, I never claimed that I am a grown-up. I'm a guy, my toys only get more expensive!




I know what you were thinking

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

This is a very interesting study done onthe perceptions of alcohol and drug addictions in Europe...I'm still reading it...So I can't really say much about it other than It is very interesting.......

http://www.geocities.com/bourbonstreet/2640/topic.htm

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

  I'm curious about this,  I do not speak from experience.

  How about certain foreign college-age kids that party ?   They don't have keg parties ?   They don't indulge in excess in other universities during party-times ?  My guess would be college age kids, party in western cultures similar to US college-age kids..

Again, I am confident that there is an element of genetic predisoposition at play as well, in Italy where people are less prone towards alcoholism at times they might drink what's considered somewhat heavily, yet some (for instance with the A-1 Milano gene) do smoke, and drink quite heavily, even have cholestral readings often as high as 300, yet these individuals still live longer than most, ALOT has to do with genetic makeup; AS WELL as discipline, and press.

As to whether or not you'd find slovenly alcohol related behaviour in a particular country or not, assuming this country is supposedly one of the countries that's as liberal as the United States, and contains a nationality prone to higher rates of alcoholism I wonder... Alcoholism does exist in certain areas of europe, and my guess is you might find the slovenly drunk drinking out've a paper bag sitting unkempt on a road-side somewhere perhaps in scandinavia, or Ireland too.  Perhaps a difference being our press advertises this,  other nations have abit more pride, and don't publically air quirky aspects for the whole world to view.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

How can I argue with this ?

<Time to hit sweetwater and get more toys>

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Surely someone is joking  :shock:   soft drug ?  It must be far less potent.  Hashish bars ?  :D    Hashish was quite a mellow high as I recall, it agreed with me....  Pot never did.... The days of Red and blonde leb were mellow days... Of course addictions existed,  Edgar Allan Poe was addicted to alcohol and Opium.... Tribes elsewhere smoke the harder stuff in certain third world countries as part of rituals.. I suppose if this is accepted and not frowned on,  it just is,  they leave it be.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Come on girl, let's get real here for a second. I read the "research" by some unknown Brian J. Loebig MBA, CADCIII, who, is not a proven, reliable source. He's a one man band who cannot even afford to have he's own paid-for website.
Here some interesting points:
There is no information as to when his "research" was conducted
Come on, what is the credibility of these people?

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

I was too!! Interesting study though....The US numbers are quite staggering as far as maryjane usage goes.....I just love studies like these...They make you think...

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

Rather than studies often conducted by people that never left their university campus,  I'd rather ask people that lived in the Netherlands, about the Netherlands. From what I've heard (and again, I have NO clue personally), the Netherlands is considered a MUCH more liberal country than the United States in quite a few ways.  As to what this means ?  Well, Personally again, I do not know,  which is why I'd love for someone from a country that's supposedly (according to what I've heard but accentuate I don't know personally) more free in what they allow their individuals to engage in to inform me what's actually what..

What enables a country to extend such freedoms to it's people ?  Should something like prostitution ever be illegal ?   Some libertarians believe legalize EVERYTHING. Make it the adults right to choose.  Now whether that can currently work in a country like the United States ? NOPE, I seriously doubt it...You;d have the kid in the candy store scenerio,  people without enough preparation and discipline over-indulging and killing themselves because they lack common sense, discipline, and even judgement..

Yet how do freedoms work in europe ?  What is legal in the Netherlands vs what's not legal here ?   or what do we hear about being legal over there, yet it's not actually legal ?   I'm curious...  Just the kind of (@$%&#!) I am !  (sue me)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

The main reason for the Netherlands (aka Holland) legalizing prostitution and most kinds of drugs was to fight crime, and they did so with and extremely high success rate.
Drug related crimes lowered by approximately 85% Drug related diseases were cut down drastically as well, because let's face it, if you want to do drugs, no-one can stop you. So the government decided rather then these stupid (@$%&#!) using used needles, we'll supply them clean ones, and rather then the druggies dealing in crime to obtain their crap, give it to them. If you want to kill yourself, we’ll help you, at a lower cost then fighting crime. It was an open vote by the Dutch citizens, and still going strong!

Prostitution is as old as the mountains, and as long as there is a demand, there will be a supply. Well, instead of making it against the law, legalize it, make them do a weekly health check, let them pay taxes, and yes, most of them actually belong to a union!

ps. for those of you who don't know, the world is round.

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

Makes sense !    I like what I hear about the way things work there.

You know what a HUGE problem is over here ?

Old Pious religious belief still is allowed to much pull...  The catholic church has ALOT of say still  :(

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Do the calculation yourself:
How much does it cost to keep a police force going? Have you got any idea of how much money the INS and armed forces spend annually in fighting drug related issues? And trust me, there’s not a lot of success, because if you close one drug cell, another one pops up. The street price of drugs are increasing and the pushers are getting rich. Now try this; spend less then 25% of that revenue, buy some clean needles, supply the drugs yourself, a safe haven for the drug abusers to kill themselves and the world is a better place, because no matter what you do, you will not stop the abuse of drugs.

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.

Oh contrare...I am currently reading the Netherlands policy on drugs...This is published by the Netherlands Ministry on foreign Affairs....According to their own document it looks as if there are NOT any legal drugs...Coffee shops call sell up to 5 grams of cannibas per day per person (Under strict conditions).  But that appears to be the only drug that they sell....It also states that it is NOT illegal to use drugs because they want peole who are addicted to be able to seek treatment without fear of prosecution.... Here is the link....

http://www.holland.com/include/loadad.h ... rugspolicy

This is very enlightening, I have always heard but never knew for myself, that you could go in any store and purchse drugs from a menu....I know know that is not legal...One has to wonder if that was once the case because I hear of people all the time telling me they have been there and that's the way it is....

Shyguy, was it once like that over there??  Do you think this is something relatively new?

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

No, you have the wrong idea. People sit there in a “coffeeshop”, socializing, and just smoking some pot, without risking the life of someone else. It’s not a big sex orgy where everything is a free for all Steven.

Until 1995 coffeeshops were illegal but tolerated. The Dutch first allowed coffeeshops to create a separation between soft and hard drugs. Unfortunately it did not work perfectly. First allowed in the early 70's, but the 1990's coffeeshops had degenerated into a front business for cocaine dealers and other nasty types. So in 1995, more than 200 of 550 coffeeshops in Amsterdam were busted and closed. Because they were never legitimized businesses, they were seen as criminal operations and the closure was implemented. Left behind were the 300-350 coffeeshops that the Dutch determined were still tolerable. A licensing board was setup and these remaining businesses were licensed and legitimized. Then the number of licences was frozen. You can not get a new license to open a new coffeeshop. The owners of exisiting coffeeshops must love this, bless their little capitalist hearts. The only way to get a coffeeshop now is to buy an existing one. You cannot just buy the license; you must buy the whole business. Also you cannot move the business to a new location.

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Money is better than poverty, if only for financial reasons.