Karaoke Forums

You folks that are discussing the reasonable aspects of the recent Colorado indoor clean air act, wait til your law is amended.  CT and NY state started off EXACTLY that same way, Bar owners issued cards at night, and claimed "membership club" status rather than "public venue",  there WERE ways around the law which wasn't as staunch as last years amended Clean air act, that offered NO exception, and without a doubt WAS a final weight on the backs of small businesses that COULD NOT afford the excessively expensive modification in structure making a part of their premises "Open roof" status despite how small... There have been many laws that have made it tough on bar owners.. There IS a point where rather than travel to non-smoking bars,  given DUI laws, cut hours, stricter laws in general targeting venues involved with the sale of alcohol, the patron will just as well hang out at places like bookstores, and coffee shops that also offer entertainment have extended hours..  The overhead of such soft drink venues is MUCH lower as well... There is prejudice these days (whether founded or not) that IS NOT conducive to many of the smaller bars lasting.  Why do many people go to bars ?   Aren't they a place people like to "let their hair down", and not have to worry about an environment that's just like  Jr. High dance atmosphere where there are chaperones preaching "You can't do this, that, etc"...  

Personally, I can't drink anymore...I don't smoke anymore... But to tell people that are drinking, "You can't smoke", get your jacket and go out in the 5 degree air AWAY from the building in the icy parking lot, and if you have more than one drink per hour, the cops eyeing you in the parking lot will throw you in jail and take away your drivers license...Is telling them,  "Stay home where you are more  comfortable"..  This CAN'T work for bars.  Bar's are not health clubs.  If people want to go to places that serve "Smart drinks",  and have weight machines,  that doesn't help a business that relies on the sale of alcohol for revenue.. Our government loves collecting tax money on ciggy sales... I view this as another aspect of excessive government.. Let adults decide whether or not THEY want to be in an environment that allows smoking.. Why does the government have to mandate something like this. Leave it as INDIVIDUAL choice IMHO. Since when is alcohol a safe substance anyway ?  I can see restaurants, and MOST public places wanting air to be free of smoke, but when extended to bars ?

DESPITE the fact that this law started with a few waitresses complaining after they became ill... EVEN they had choices... So assuming they aren't around smoke... Drunken guys are safe ?  Bar environments are loaded with germs and alcohol. What grounds is there for a government that get's fat and happy off've selling ciggy's to tell the small business owner smoking is illegal in your little corner bar ?

Bar's are for the 21 and older crowd.  People old enough to make decisions without the government chaperoning us...

JMO

NON-smoker AND NON-drinker..


Why don't they just ban car exhaust in tunnels ?  It's not safe for the workers in tunnels to be around that stuff .  Make them also open their roof  

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

OK, if a total ban on smoking in public places seems too harsh and unrealistic then
make it mandatory that all bars and clubs have a smoking and non-smoking section that works.  Also, the smoking section needs to be equipped with the BEST air purification system that's out there for the size of the venue.  Give the owner a tax break or whatever it takes as a financial incentive to get him to do all this.  This way we don't have to argue about who's rights are more precious -- the smoker's or non-smoker's.

I still think that if tabacco is really all that dangerous, then the gov should outlaw it completely....They need to put up or shut up.

Instead, they tax it at ever-increasing rates and bleed the consumers and tabacco companies as much as they can without killing thier hosts.

The same idiocy should apply to bullets...Bullets are bad for your health and cause billions in medical costs to the states....Yep, why don't they tax bullets an extra 2 bucks a pack?...Can you imagine how boring it would be if no bars allowed the use of bullets?

I totally agree on that. Or........ if they ban gals carrying a splitting maul behind the back seat of their truck? Yeah, I'd march on the white house if they ever put those laws into effect.  :rotflmao:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Gurl, someday someone is gonna jerk your splittin maul outta you hands and spank you real hard.....

and I almost got arrested for having an air rifle in my car

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Nah, they've tried.  :wink:







Air rifle? You mean those things that shoot the little colored pellets? Those little suckers sting..... if you get shot on bare skin anyhow. One of my hubby's friends had one last summer at my house...... and thought it'd be realllllllyyyyy funny to shoot me repeatedly with it. And I was wearing cut offs and a tank top. I coulda killed him.

(almost did too)  :shock:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I would love to see you afterwards....Looking all pouty like in your avatar and rubbing your butt  Sayin, "I'll be good, I promise Daddy."

No, uh, Keith......??....... haven't you learned ANYthing about me yet?

It was more like "Get yer A$$ over here Dan, it's my turn...!!"

I did get even.  :yes:

Though I did rub my fanny a bit, I told ya- those things STING.

BTW..... Do I look pouty in that pic? Now you're gonna have me taking it down and trying to take some new ones. I don't wanna look pouty!!! Makes me sound like a sissy.

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

Well, it WOULD help if you dropped your head a bit and kinda pooched out your lower lip a little...THEN you would really look pouty like you just got spanked...But as it is, you look like before the spanking-kinda like a gal does when she wants one.

You're incorrigible Keith......... you just leave my pic alone!! For all you know, maybe I DO want a spanking? So there.  :shock:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥

I will make a few last comments and tell a personal story.. Most here know that when it comes to government intervention I get totally ballistic.. Here is one reason why...
 Years ago I went up to the Cheyenne VA to get some cold meds or something..It was during a blizzard twenty below and for those not familiar with Cheyenne it is about 6500 feet and the wind does blow in Wyoming...Along the entranceway is a sign that reads " The Price Of Freedom Is Visible Here" I parked in the rear lot on the East side and as I approached one of the entry ways between 2 wings there was several old vets outside in the freezing breezes, some packing their iv bottles and stands some in wheel chairs.. What is this I asked Oh you cant smoke inside anymore... I totally f***g lost it.. I went inside screaming where in the f**k is the patients rep office at now. I want to talk to him NOW. Who in the f**k is the hospital administrater now. I had 2 or 3 staff that knew me trying to calm me down.. Next I knew 2 or 3 security were approaching I told them dont F888g come close I will kill you.. About that time I found the patients rep office who greeted me invited me inside and closed the door.. I sat down calmed down a whole bunch and asked him What in the hell is this hospital doing making vets stand out in this weather to smoke?  It is a new federal law we can no longer provide a inside smoking area it is hazardous to you health For gods sake they are out there getting pnuemonia thats not hazardous to your health? He said we have a contract to bulid an ouside heated smoking shack. I said good when you get it done then run them outside...We discussed a few other things such as tranportation from co for out of town vets. I left to get my meds and all the staff that Im met in the halls we exchanged grins...When I lrft there was nobody outside smoking

With todays technology we cant exchange and have breathable air in an inside section? It is a matter of economics which further hinges on the price of heating fuels  which increases the cost of doing so.. Lets start putting the responsibilty and burden on those who could truly do something about it and quit passing more laws on the citizens and poor people.. Ok my soap box is in the corner for awhile...

I've been in places that have large powerful ceiling air-filtration and exchange systems, the air exchange rate was so efficient, you'd have to be on top of the person to be bothered by the secondhand smoke, Couldn't even smell it two tables away.  Now if a place with that efficient a system, allows a sealed off smoking room indoors with special fans that prevent smoke from permeating in certain directions, and these rooms are JUST for smokers, and have powerful exhaust fans in these rooms, and the door is only open when smokers enter and leave the room... With air filtration systems capable of what some of these "Scrubbers" on chimneys can do, this ALL or none stuff is just absurd IMHO... ..  given the number that smoked IN THE BAR let's say monday night when ALL the guys watching monday night football were smoking, including the bar tender, WHO CARES. ?  Let the 6 guys smoke...

Stupid laws,  A person has to suffer the side affects of nausea from chemotherapy and suffer more of an excruciating dying process in California because Medical "Pot" is illegal ?    Yeah, and Morphine, demeral, and HOW many meds prescribed are more dangerous than "THC" ? or even smoking pot ?  A person is dying, and so nauseated and sick he can't eat, and they deny him one thing that helped him because it's illegal...  and WHY is it illegal anyway ?  because it's too tough too difficult for the government to regulate it ?   Pot's an analgesic..Personally I hate the stuff, but if it helps a suffering person, and other's want to smoke it...Look at the junk that's easily bought and legal that's far more dangerous to the human body... Fine for people to medicate themselves and kill themselves with one of the fastest addicting substances to the human body...Ethyl Alcohol  
Yet a Cancer sufferer must suffer because ??????

Like Karyoker mentioned, you have someone in a home that let's say might have 3-5 years life left.  They can't make provisions indoor's allowing them to do one of the only things that they enjoy towards the end ?  Sure there might be people in the same place that have emphysema, or breathing probs...you don't put these people NEAR the designated smoking room that has an advanced air filtration system...

There really is a need for patient advocates, especially in area's such as Gerontology.  IF left to their own devices some of the idiot's that work in these homes as aides these days won't allow the 90 year old patient with god knows how many physical probs and Dementia to smoke because smoking is unhealthy ?  No question Karyoker,  there's ALOT of stupidity out there... and it's scarier to think what happens when we become dependent on "Health care providers" that are inept..  I've been there....When I was hospitalized if it wasn't for own observational ability, A mistake the nurses made could've killed me... I was taking several meds way back....The idiots accidently (I think, not sure of course) put a Tricyclic antidepressant, AND an MAOI in my medicine cup.....

Anyway,  I'm scared ^(*%(^_*& of becoming dependent....Too many inept people out there that just don't care....

OK, I better get out've this discussion too

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Here in Nova Scotia we have those systems in by law, however, this doesn't satisfy the non-smoking lobby and because they you know what so much to the government smoking is supposed to be completely banned come January.  There is no pleasing the non-smoking lobby.  They make Nazis look like a girl scout troop.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Ban is here in Austin, but as a non smoker the best thing is I can leave the bar and wear the same jacket the day after without having to wash it or febreeze it.  And still people sneak in a smoke on occasion or standing outside the doors.

After reading all the comments - I have to say there are a lot of really good
points made.

It seems to me people are willing to pay more to smoke, obviously at the price
cigarettes are. If they made bars have efficient ventilation and smoke eaters it would be expensive to do, but people would pay a little more to be in a place they could smoke. I think it is wrong for the government to tell you you can't smoke in a public place, especially if it is for recreation. People do have a choice to go or not. I don't like that the bar I work in is so smokey, but I know 80% or more of my patrons smoke and would not come in if they couldn't smoke.

I can't remember where I heard it, but someone was talking about a bar owner who
put a bus outside for people to smoke in, so he wouldn't lose business in his bar. It is
so rediculous it has to come to that.

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  Would that really work though ?   Do people want to interupt the continuity of their state, put on their jacket and walk outdoors in locations such as ours,  given winter climates in many geographic areas ?   Assuming they are willing, they still would not be allowed to take an alcoholic beverage with them outside of the actual structure in many locations.

I think the biggest problem is that people that smoke ESPECIALLY when drinking, and are suddenly told they can't ARE inconvenienced, and despite many being willing to go with restrictions to a point. If something becomes a pain in the butt, it's no longer leisurely or enjoyable.. Police the bar environment too strictly, and it loses ALOT of appeal for some.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Kappy if your choice is either stand outside ____ feet from the building in the cold to smoke or get into a bus in the parking lot, I'd be on the bus. I'm sure there are some liability issues there though.

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