Karaoke Forums

Milo - Obviously, I can't keep Phill from deleting the thread if he feels it's necessary, but I'm not going to ask him to do it, nor do I want it done.

I'm sorry if this makes me sound 'not quite fluffy', but honestly I don't care why she did what she did unless she explains it to me herself, makes a public appology and requests that phill remove her remarks from my submissions. There's really just no excuse for that kind of behaviour and she deserves to be publicy admonished for it.

Other folks deserve to know when people act that way. That's why I started this thread. I'll keep copies just in case it does get deleted. It's not always a good thing to sweep stuff under the rug. After a while, the pile gets so big you can't walk on it anymore.

At this point, resolving the problem 'in private' isn't an option since she hasn't even attempted to contact me. I will NOT attempt to contact her in private because that never ends well. I'll be accuse of 'harrassing' her and the next thing you know, SHE will be starting a huge thread consisting of all the messages I sent her in private. Not that I would send anything I would be ashamed of folks reading, but stuff always gets twisted around when that happens, so I thought it would be best to just do it in public from the start.

I'm going to assume you mean 'The COMPLAINER' rather than perhaps, the 'campaigner', compigner, combiner, comparer? compiler? componer?? or some other possibility. I hope it's what you mean because my entire post is based on that likelihood.



You said this post was 'to balance things out', so are you referring to yourself here, as the 'complainer'? Or to me? Or to Lisa? Or to just complainers in general?

In any case, the statement about giving 'the complainer' the power to 'force his moral code on the rest of us' is not necessarily accurate. There are many ways to assert oneself and arguing with complainers (although it can be occassionally stimulating), is not one of the best. I tend to be argumentative, so I will argue simply for entertainment (as I'm doing at this moment) but often, it is far more intelligent to decline the invitation to argue, especially when the person you're inclined to argue with has no power, influence or ability.

Not arguing with the complainer is not submitting to his moral code, it's usually just ignoring it and stripping it of any potential power it might have.



Wow... I guess I'm not a 'complainer' then...  



So according to natural law, that puts you in a pretty bad position (unless of course you have a huge following, like Gandhi did). Heck, even he failed in the end (although I admire him greatly), because his countrymen never did come to terms with their differences & stop hating each other.

BTW - um... what IS your cause? Still having trouble figuring out how your posts relate to this thread, unless of course you're just trying to fill up space, change the topic, misdirect the thread, or postulate on some abstract level about what's happening here.

In fact, I'm going to have to stop once again, because I'm not really sure what word you are trying to use. You obviously have a good enough grasp of the english language and a large enough vocabulary to say what you mean and mean what you say, so why you would use a 'non'-word 'compainer' throughout your post is confusing. Please clarify yourself and I will be happy to engage you.

Thank you  :worship:



I'm going to clarify a few things in your post that some of the newer folks may not know because they're not familiar with me. Please do not take this as a personal 'attack', I'm simply clearing up a few things.

To say that I 'don't sub' is innaccurate. I have 18 songs in my profile (that's more than most folks do at any one time) and all but one of those (i believe) is open for critique. Now, it would be accurate to say that I haven't submitted anything in a long time. Looking back at my profile, I guess it's been almost a year since I submitted anything new. I am, however, an active member of this community. I come and go, have quite a few friends here and comment fairly often (although I do take breaks).



Ok, that needs to be addressed as well. Anyone who browses through the comments I have left (it can be done from my profile), can easily see that I consistently critique people. LOTS of people. I would have hundreds of comments showing if it hadn't been for folks who have removed songs I have commented on (not usually BECAUSE I comment on them, either). If she felt singled out, all she had to do was take a look at my comments.

As for commenting on all of her subs at once, I tend to do that (especially when I hear someone for the first time). It has nothing to do with singling anyone out and everything to do with trying to get an overall feel for the person's voice. I'm also often motivated by trying to find a 'good song' in a person's submissions. If I can't, it isn't my fault... but I do try. There have been many times I have listened to the first song in a person's profile (usually something from the new submissions page), and given it a low rank, only to give high ranks to the rest of their songs. Sometimes they're just having a 'bad day'.

Contrary to some folks' popular opinion (not talking about YOU here...), I am NOT out to drag people through the mud. I try to honestly help people. As I've said in the past, it also helps me with my own singing to hear what needs improvement in other people's singing. I'm more than happy to tell people they've done a great job when they have.... but truthfully.... and I'm going to get a little annoyed here (again, not at YOU), it is irritating to visit someone's profile with a VERY high rank (9+), thinking 'wow, this person must be good... I can't wait to hear them' and then be SHOCKED at how BAD THEY ARE!!!! argh!!

Now don't get me wrong, I don't give especially low ranks on songs to try & drop a person's overall ranking just because I don't think they deserve to be ranked that high, but I DO try to give each submission a rank that IN MY OPINION, it deserves.



No, that isn't 'fluffing'. To 'fluff' is to give obnoxiously high ranks on songs that are barely passable, even painful to hear. If you give 10s when the folks are REALLY REALLY GOOD, that's honesty on your part, not fluffing.

To decline to comment when you feel a person isn't that great isn't fluffing either, it's holding your tongue. Telling your mother-in-law that the new hot-pink miniskirt, go-go pumps & tube top she bought, which make her look like an overinflated alien sex doll (in a BAD way) makes her look wonderful, is fluffing.



I absolutely agree with you.



Unfortunately, if every had such high standards, this site would be empty.



That's putting it mildly

I'll take you up on that when I get back home (hope you're not 'setting me up').

take care

ROTFLMAO



Yikes!!!  



Ok, I understand the idea here (have read the rest of your post as well). I would be happy to participate in the thread you guys are talking about.. haven't seen it yet (would someone like to give me a link??). However, being the stubborn idealist that I am, I simply refuse to IGNORE the fact that songs are put up for RANKING AND CRITIQUE.

There are people here who really do value this function, both the giving and recieving of critiques, and there is NO REASON we should have to tuck our tails and give in to the folks who want nothing but 'fluffy' comments and high ranks. I'm sorry if feelings get hurt in the process, but honestly... who could be so ignorant as to believe that in asking for critiques on their songs, they should NOT expect to get them?? It's silly.

I'm more of a Tim Burton fan than a Walt Disney fan and I will always be. I value that about myself. Other people, who are afraid to say so in public, value that about me. WITHOUT people like me, we have an 'Emperor's New Clothes' kind of situation... something we're supposed to learn our lesson about when we read that story as little kids. Everyone agrees with it when they read it, but my god... put it into action in real life and people freak out!!

Don't people realize that we'll never have any portion of a 'perfect world' until people stop pretending that it already is??

Thanks Steve. I do look forward to seeing the thread.

You don't have to tuck your tail in. Yet you'll need a REALLY tough hyde, and learn to take ALOT of tantrums with a grain of salt rather than to repeatedly get upset when the person retaliates, because that's how it's going to stay unless Phill makes some changes. You won't make them however..  You'll also need to endure this same frustration repeatedly because too many people LIKE fluff over there.. You'd be better off to expend your energy screaming at Phill to make the change, because WE WON'T.. This same ol song and dance has been playing over & over for how long ?... . Assume those that want critiques will be willing to request them AWAY from Singer's Showcase.. VERY few want a Critique, it goes against the grain there. Most want to hear whether or not you honestly liked their performance on a ranking scale of 9.5 to 10+++++++  If for some reason you don't, they opt to hear the "white lie"

You need to realize in different countries there are different languages. In the language they speak over in Singer's Showcase the word "Critique" actually means "send me flowers"..  They don't care about what the definition of the noun is in the engris language.

If the system get's changed at all,  the critiquing forces must train elsewhere for the challenge,  not barge into the enemy territory and get sprayed with shrapnel  LMAO
It's rediculous to be in Singer's Showcase Critiquing... It makes the critiquer the "Ugly duckling", and as a result of the effort you expend, (regardless of most presentations, if it isn't all positive) MANY people end up wanting to "teach you a lesson".. The fact the Phill doesn't change "C" to comments, and axe the ranking system that starts at 9 and goes to 10, is because MANY enjoy the fantasy... If you want to keep shattering fantasies and fighting Seby, wear a suit of armor and realize you'll get shot at....

When you get sick of trying to teach people that Critique doesn't actually mean "XOXOXOX" and nothing more. Some of us that want to help others musically will be critiquing those that want a critique rather than expending time trying to help someone, only to find invariably we're shooting ourself in the foot...

Enjoy the war

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

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(Started by Don Weiss)



Seriously,  Where on earth can a person that submits 30 songs end up with an average rank of 9.5-10 except fantasyland ?   What does a person learn by getting 9's and 10's with NO honest feedback regarding how they can improve ?  The real compliment you give to a person isn't a cheap and easy "10",  it's taking the time to try to help them improve.... Since there are too many babies that post in the current Critique category, that get angry when you try to take the time to help them,  the heck with them.... let them have their gold stars..... SERIOUSLY,  how many are anything more than a realistic score spanning from 3-7 ?  When is a WHOLE venue 8-10 rank ?  LMAO   

There are a couple consistent 7's and 8's....and maybe a handful of 9's in the full history of SS consistently able to achieve such near perfection....  Yet even giving a 9 a 9 should be critiqued... "What did you find so outstanding about this ?  What did you like about this, What do you feel would've made this perfect to you ?". The few times *I've* felt a song was honestly a 10, perhaps in 4-5 cases in a year, THAT's when I had to think the hardest.  I wanted to explain to myself, AND the person why I found their work so amazing IMHO...THAT takes time !..... THe ranking system as it stands is sunday school mentality currently where "Everyone get's a star" . It's babyish as it currently exists within "C", but if it's only praise people want, and the way it works makes them feel better, let them do their thing..As it stands, the ranking system is counterproductive to any chance critique might have of working, the goal becomes a rating competition.... It's not designed for musicians to receive scrutiny,  It's a venue where Karaoke singers can have fun, for that it's fine I suppose...

The ranking system is just handing out candy to everyone...There's no critiquing going on because noone really wants a critique... The nice thing is people seem to enjoy listening to one-another over there, and interacting in there own comfortable way,....

So let them...

actual critiquing,  3 doors down !

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

awww sweetie it's nice to be remembered but I don't know that it'll happen.. Tig appears to have disappeared from radar around here

Yippeee---First I would like to thank whom ever let me post in this forum!! I was getting irritated not being able to reply to all the talk about myself!!

I feel I need to speak my side of the story! I have already gone back through and changed all my ranking on your songs to NO COMMENT!! I erased all the mean things I wrote. I am sorry for bashing your ratings...even though I really don't think you sing all that well.....but that is besides the point here. I am no one to judge YOUR music. Everyone has a different ear for music...and likes and dislikes as well...and I can appreciate that.

I do not appreciate the way I was treated in anyway shape or form by Seby....First off no one got to see the first few comments she left...the ones she changed before coming in here to post on this forum...and the low rank across the board she initially gave me...My friend seen this but... I unfortunely don't have proof...and I will not ask him to be a part of this...also my family seen what she had written too. I was very upset....my feeling were very hurt...for someone I do not know...or care to know for that matter...to come in and threaten me like that and be so rude....by threaten I mean she pretty much said she will be keeping an eye out for any of my songs to be posted and will rank them as she sees fit...I am not playing this little game that you seem to like so much Seby!! You obviously love the attention you are getting!

I do not mind critisisim!! If you would have posted what is there now I would not have said a thing. I have had lower scores in the past...I delete them and try again..like I think most people do in here! I also take into concideration what my fellow singers have to say to me...cause I do know that they are only trying to help! I love them all for that...It is greatly helping me with the recording area I was so lacking in....I am so new to this whole recording thing....I always had a passion for singing...and this site was such a wonderful breath of fresh air for me to escape to and have fun listening to others and singing myself...but there always has to be a bad egg where ever you go I guess...

Apparently you think I suck at singing...and this is fine with me...I do feel it is more on a personal level now that you have succeeded in making a butt out of me on here...now I am permanently tagged with the "sniper" tag, although YOU did this to me FIRST. It was my own fault...I should not have SUNK to your level but I did...and for that I am sorry but I think you owe me an apoligy too for the first comments you posted, the ones I am sure you would never admit to.

Like I said before I did not mind the critisising comments you left it was the mean and hateful ones you left!!

In conclusion, I think something ought to be done about the fact that you can change the comment and ranking that easily...there should be some way that there are copies left somewhere(proof)...I think it would avoid a lot of this trouble...I truly believe in my heart that some people feed off this kind of CRAP and love it!!!

Ps. How do I unsubscribe my membership? I will not pay to be harrassed or humiliated like that! Any help is greatly appreciated!

~Lisa

heheheh



Well I have to admit.. you had me 'lol' several times in your post.

I know I know Steve... it's all true. But I comfort myself with the pleasure it gives me every time someone says 'hey thanks... I appreciate hearing a little honesty sometimes'. And that happens more often than one might think. I'm not the only one around here who gives honest feedback (although sometimes I might feel like it), so I know they have had similar experiences.

I don't really mind the caustic barbs so much, even the occassional stray bullets. As I said in my first post, I'm not so much bemoaning my ranking getting cut. I DO have a pretty tough hide when it comes to that. But the pure pettiness of her actions just um 'tinkled' me off (yes, I did write tinkled). hehehehe It certainly won't discourage me from continuing what I've been doing here for over a year now.

I guess my point is... if they can shoot at me, I can certainly shoot back (although I'll be more creative and entertaining to read than they will).

Oh good, finally we get to hear 'her side of the story!!'



It looks like you did change back most of the rankings you gave my subs.
You deleted some of your comments.

As for my singing ability.... hey, I don't claim to be a great singer. I haven't submitted anything in almost a year because people I respect on here pretty much let me know that singing just isn't my thing. Frankly, if I can't do something really well, I'd rather not do it at all. If I ever get to the point where I'm happy with my voice (I am pretty happy with it on a few of my subs), I'll submit again. I am in NO way looking for sympathy here. I actually feel that my voice has potential if I worked on it long and hard enough, but I'm one of those folks who doesn't have a natural, 'god-given-gift' for singing. I have to work at it and after a while it just isn't fun anymore.

I still love music though and one of the ways I 'scratch' my music bug is to come here and interact with folks. I offer advice to people who ask for it (by saying 'critique me'). Does it make a bit of difference to my giving advice that I'm not a 'super great singer'??? Of course not. People can be musicians, have a musical ear and musical knowledge without having a wonderful intstrument themselves. There are points beyond which I cannot go and I freely admit that, but one thing I can do is hear correct pitch. I can tune a guitar (correctly) without using a tuner... can you?



Yeah, especially not after you gave me a reason to get angry.... although even then I've been relatively civil. There is nothing wrong with expressing justified anger. There is nothing wrong with pulling the dirt into the light. Am I guilty of those things?? You bet, and I'll do it again. I'm no coward.



I have something new to add to the list of labels I have given Princess Lisa... you are lying. Flat out, bald-faced lying. The folks here know me well enough to know that I don't hide what I write. The 'first few comments' that I left... the comments on the first song of yours were no worse than the comments on the second, third, fourth and fifth song. I did not change ANY of my comment OR RANKS!!! (except that I removed what I had said after the 'edit' in your last song, and the original text is posted in this thread for all to see).

The 'threat' you are talking about was a threat to honestly critique your future songs. If you don't want them critiqued it's easy enough to avoid. Submit them under 'just for fun' (ya big baby).



Oh bull crap!!! What is there, the ranks... the comments (with the exception mentioned above) are EXACTLY what was posted before. The stuff I put in after 'edit' on the last comment (obviously for anyone who has the ability to read) was added AFTER your spiteful little attack.

You can't handle criticism!!!! I was NO WORSE to you than I have been to any of the folks I have critiqued in the past. Think about it, why would I single you out? Do you think I have some kind of vendetta against you? God knows it's not jealousy.



Sure, there are a lot of people who will delete anything they get less than a 10. Or at least there used to be. These days, if that were true, there wouldn't be many songs listed. Why?? Is it because people are 'big meanies??' or is it because IT'S BLOODY IMPOSSIBLE TO GET 10s ALL THE TIME!!!!! IT'S NOT REALITY!!

Even the 'Pro Quality' singers don't ALWAYS get 10s. Think of it this way. If everyone was a 10, what would 5 'average' be??? A 10!!! So following that line of thought, if you give someone a 5 on this site, you're really giving them a 10 because that's the average rating. See?? It makes no sense.



Yeah... I can feel the love...



Professional recording is an art in itself. It takes a lot of effort to learn how to produce really good, quality recordings and even learn to use the software. Fortunately, most people can just sit down and push a button these days and come out with a passable quality recording. Your recording quality isn't bad, that's not where you need work.

Sing on pitch, like that last song you did (which was MOSTLY on), and people will forgive you most recording mistakes. Afterall, it's the VOICE that matters most here. If your voice is good enough, you can always pay someone to record you professionally.



I think, as I said in the comments I left you, that you have a good vocal tone to work with, but your pitch control needs a LOT of work. Any person in the music industry (who cared enough to even take the time) would tell you the same thing. Unfortunately, someone who sings off-pitch is one of the hardest things to fix. It's not impossible, but it rarely happens and takes a LOT of dedication.

I get into spaces where I can't seem to sing on pitch no matter what I do. Other times, it's easy. Having some sort of feedback system (so you can monitor yourself and hear what you actually sound like AS you sing) helps a lot. ALL of the professional vocalists do this, and for good reason.



No, I did not 'snipe' you. I critiqued you. You succeeded in making a 'butt' out of yourself. Sure it's embarrassing, but people will overlook it. Lots of folks will feel sorry for you and offer their condolences.



Lisa, if you were on MY level... there never would have been a problem in the first place. You would have understood what I was trying to say and you would have either thanked me for the input of told me that you appreciated my efforts but didn't agree with my evaluation and left it at that.



I would readily admit to anything I posted. Do you not think I'm aware that these are PUBLIC postings? Why would I not admit to something I posted publicly when I obviously meant for people to read it in the first place? You don't have 'evidence' of what I posted because you yanked the submission down, not because I changed anything I wrote. I stand by my statement that I didn't post anything to be ashamed of in the first place. If you say otherwise, you're either lying or you have a serious problem with the english language.



Like what?? The cutting 'your pitch was off'?? wow, that's harsh. What you did (and I responded to in this thread) was 'mean and hateful'. Try taking a closer look at yourself (or a closer listen.. then maybe you'll understand my comments better).

Geeeeesh, Seby.... if you are gonna start shooting... HERE... borrow my gun!



Honestly, girl... I'm always trying to put out your fires.... tsk tsk tsk!  :argue:




When will they ever learn.... oh when will theeeeeeeyyyyyyy ever learn???  


hey, kiddo... good to see ya!!

_________________
[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

CC!!!!

hey, it's a party now!! hehehe

Whoo don't you look hawt in that silver lamae?!? (now where are my TENS!!!!) hehheheheheheh

all that's missing are the machine gun jubblies!

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All work and no play make Homer something something

I don't know if this has been brought up before on this subject but I am wondering why is the ranking set up so that folks that are up for ranking, rank other folks..isn't that kind of like beauty contest contestants  voting on each other??.. shouldn't the person ranking be from an objective source, someone in the industry perhaps, just food for thought..

I do know last year when I joined and had songs up for ranking I was sniped at through someone not leaving any comment and just ranking down my scores..kind of silly on that person's part since those visiting my posts could clearly see what was happening.. that person later sent me an email and apologized...

If someone offered me a choice of a bunch of 10's or 10,000 dollars you know which I would choose.. ....

That's a good idea you have;someone not too involved in subbing songs at SS will do a good job in the Critique dept. That's why I ask Steven to do mine when I last sub a song. And he did a great job.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Not a bad idea Jian, but who would be brave enough to take that job on, and who would have the time....

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

How about contacting Paul McCartney or Celine Dion for the job, solely on a volunteer basis of course.. .. bet they would just jump at the chance .. they have the credentials...  :worship: All I am gettng at is look at the source of who is critiquing you...when I was getting critiqued, I would go listen to the critiquer to get some ideas and found they were being critiqued on the same limitations  by someone else as what they critiqued me for..interesting, yes...

Pauls pretty busy,  He's organizing his "When I'm 64" tour in two months, we just got off the phone.. I lost Celine's number.. Keef wichar will do it if you keep his embalming IV filled with alcohol for him.. Yet doubt you really want Keef. James Taylor's not interested either.. His response was, "just let them have fun",  he doesn't want to feed into a rediculous system...I spoke with a few others, but noones really that interested..

(If Pete Townsend, or MIchael Jackson join, I'm quitting, you can't turn your back to either one of them)

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Hi Steven, you should try, Briney Spear, or one of the Simpson girl.  LOL

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott