Karaoke Forums

So here I was, going through, listening to 'critique' songs in the way I always do. I saw a song on the list that is one of my favorites. I believe it was a 'We Belong', but I'm not sure because the song was removed right after I posted on it.

Anyway, as usual I listened and gave her positive feedback on the performance. Told her she had a nice vocal quality and that her pitch was her weakest point. Here is an example of one of my critiques of her, from 'Could've Been'

"This song shows off your strong vocal presence nicely... once again the weak spot is pitch. Some spots you are on, some of your high notes are very pretty, but overall pitch is off. Nothing personal here and I admire your efforts. Giving you a 6 on this."

Out of 5 songs she had posted, I ranked 4 of them either 5's or 6's with the last song getting a 9 from me. I told her she really shone on the last one (she did).  

My other critiques (aside from the song she pulled of course)

"Cant Help Myself"

"Clear vocals, good timing, nice strong presence, pitch mostly flat. Giving you a 6 on this one."

"Walk Like an Egyptian"
"A very fun song to sing. Good job keeping up with the lyrics. Once again, pitch is a problem. I promise I'm not trying to 'pick on you' or anything, just listening to your subs since I haven't really heard you before. Giving you a 5 on this.. but hey, I'm rooting for ya!"

"Sanctuary"
"This is the best sub of yours I've heard. I really like your vocal tone here, full and soft. Your pitch is mostly on!!! GOOD JOB!!! This came out very pretty. You're certainly not 'tonedeaf' on this one. Giving you a 9. Yay!!" - which I went back and edited after I saw what she did.

Now then, let's compare my comments to the ones she immediately went over & left on my subs. She posted comments on my subs in a matter of about 5 minutes, not even long enough to have listened to them and gave a very low rank to ALL of the songs I have up for ranking. Now, I don't care about what my rank is, but to give you folks an idea of what she ranked me, my profile dropped from an 8.9 to a 7.8 after her visits.

Her comments:

"Gold Dust Woman"

"Good try"

"Heartbreaker"

"I am sorry but I too think yours is a little off pitch and key!!! Sorry for the ranking but it just was not up to par for me and my ears!!!"

"Only Happy When it Rains"

"I am not sure of this one either!! I don't know it!!" - she did this on quite a few of the songs, then gave me VERY low ranks on the songs

"Love Song - the Cure"

" I think I might like this one better with a male singing it!!"

"Uninvited"
"Nice try!!"

and on and on. A few she wrote "I like this song!" and gave a very low ranking on it.

My point?? I've been through this before (although not quite this bad). I don't really care what my rank is. I'm not whining about someone thrashing my rating. What bothers me is that it's just so obviously a spiteful act. It's not a case of 'don't dish it out if you can't take it'. I've been criticized by far worse than anyone here. I can take it. But I don't have to put up with people having tantrums without having my say.

So folks, I realize most of you are 'fluffers' (no offense - god knows we've been through all of this before), and won't tell a person they can't sing a lick even if they  make you wince (unless it's me, of course). I mean, I wouldn't have gotten this reaction if she hadn't been given almost straight 10s up to this point (come on folks, the girl ADMITS SHE's TONEDEAF!!!). But I'm posting this as a warning to the few on here who honestly critique folks who ask for critiques. Be prepared if you listen to her songs. She does NOT want the truth.  

(wonder how long this post will exist) hehehehehe

When I saw what 'princess Lisa' had done, I went back and edited one of my comments to this:

"This is the best sub of yours I've heard. I really like your vocal tone here, full and soft. Your pitch is mostly on!!! GOOD JOB!!! This came out very pretty. You're certainly not 'tonedeaf' on this one. Giving you a 9. Yay!! [edit] I'm not like you so I won't change the honest ranks I've given you, but I'm certainly going to tell you what I think. Going to someone's subs to 'retaliate' for their ranks by giving them 1s on all of their subs with moronic, childish comments is not only immature, it shows you to be a low-class person. I invite everyone to come read the comments 'dear lisa' left on MY subs after my thoughtful, honest comments I offered her. Actually, I was being generous in a few cases. Look at it this way... You've already done your worst (as far as sniping my subs). You'll be sure to get honesty from me in the future as well. Enjoy!!!"

This was her reply:


"Reply: That is so funny...everytime I come in here your comment changes....nice to know you keep coming back to listen....~winks~ I am not as immature as you sweety!! You keep right on with your immaturity!! I am no longer part of it!! You can do whatever you like to my songs....you are only 1 vote!"

How many times did you see my comment change, Princess? Because I only edited it one time. Maybe you're having a problem with your perception of reality? Oh wait... you ARE! Trust me, listening once was more than enough, but I'll be sure to offer my constructive criticism the next time you ask for ranking. It's ironic that you actually call yourself 'tonedeaf', but are offended when told you can't sing on pitch. Why is that? Were you joking? Or were you already aware that you have serious pitch problems? You know, if you were to actually pay attention when people try to offer you advice, you might become a decent singer.

Sure I'm only 1 vote (and this isn't Miss America, Princess), but I'm not the only one who tells the truth around here. Wait until you run into some of the REALLY 'brutally honest' folks. I feel sorry for you.

Oh, and one other thing... I find it a little telling that of all the 180+ comments Princess Lisa has made, ONLY the ones she gave me were less than 100% positive and "10!! 10!! 10++++!!!" Really kinda makes you look bad Princess. Not everyone is a 10, otherwise, what's the point?? (btw... i can see you lurking) lmao

Can I leave comments without casting a score?


Well, the answer is Yes & No.
We would like you to rank the performance, if the submitter has permitted this.
You can select "prefer not to rank" this will not count against the singer!
The comment section is to either:

explain why you provided that score
give the submitter critiques of their performance
let them know that you enjoyed it
Preferably you would do a little of each, but at least one of the first two. The comment section is not to start a conversation/discussion, that is why we have the forums.

.....you did this

.....she needs to read this:May I respond to someone's comment?

Yes, only if the comment is on a song you submitted.

Just remember by submitting your songs in the Singer's Showcase you are welcoming others' to provide their comments. You may not agree with the comments or ranks given, nevertheless, it is inappropriate to berate someone in the comment section of the song submission. Most will be critiques to help you improve. However, if you have a valid complaint, please contact the site administrators who will then determine the appropriateness and possibly remove the offending post.  

seby, the only thing you did wrong was when you went back and edited.....you can't berate her in the comment section of her song.....i agree,  she did snipe AND she didn't follow the guidelines for critique....

now go back and fix what you did wrong!  

also....somewhere hidden in the discussion forum is a thread called Song Comments .  billy, jian and i have songs up for critique there....have fun!  ;)

*sigh* I suppose you're right :p (party-pooper) heheheh I will go back and edit out the mean stuff I said in my comment on her last song (it's posted here anyway) lmao

And THANKS for not being afraid to speak up!

au contraire.....i was very sceered....

just remember this if you go over and critique my songs......  ;)

i only have one song they're discussing over there but feel free to critique any of my subs.....

....and you're welcome hon    ;)

Ohh man.......not again... .....Well i'm gonna stay out of this one, but I do hope it leads to another performance from Tig, Crystal, and Cindy again.......

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

here is 'my' conribution to this never ending Sniper thing

My complaint about Sniper

Most people probably think they already know all they need to know about Sniper, but I have some new information to bring to light. I begin with critical semantic clarifications. First, I am not a robot. I am a thinking, feeling, human being. As such, I get teary-eyed whenever I see Sniper batten on the credulity of the ignorant. It makes me want to force him into early retirement, which is why I'm so eager to tell you that Sniper uses language that would make a sailor blush. In reaching that conclusion, I have made the usual assumption that if he continues to offer hatred with a pseudo-intellectual gloss, I will be obliged to do something about him. And you know me: I never neglect my obligations. You should not ask, "Whatever happened to Sniper's sense of humanity?", but rather, "Is Sniper hoping that the readers of this letter won't see the weakness of his argument relative to mine?". The latter question is the better one to ask, because if one could get a Ph.D. in Nihilism, Sniper would be the first in line to have one. He parrots whatever ideas are fashionable at the moment. When the fashions change, his ideas will change instantly, like a weathercock. Sniper has compiled an impressive list of grievances against me. Not only are all of these grievances completely fictitious, but now that I've been exposed to Sniper's refrains, I must admit that I don't completely understand them. Perhaps I need to get out more. Or perhaps it has been said that Sniper should just face the facts. I, in turn, feel that Sniper's nostrums will have consequences -- very serious consequences. And we ought to begin doing something about that.

Sniper has never satisfactorily proved his assertion that anyone who disagrees with him is ultimately querulous. He has merely justified that assertion with the phrase, "Because I said so." Most of you reading this letter have your hearts in the right place. Now follow your hearts with actions. Sniper says he's going to incite pogroms, purges, and other mayhem before the year is over. Is he out of his perverted mind? The answer is fairly obvious when you consider that the real question here is not, "When he looks in the mirror in the morning, does Sniper see more than the same, tactless face that all impolitic, hypocritical parvenus share?". The real question is rather, "How can Sniper make it impossible to disturb his pushy gravy train and then turn around and shed tears for those who got hurt as a result?" Before you answer, let me point out that we were put on this planet to be active, to struggle, and to build bridges where in the past all that existed were moats and drawbridges. We were not put here to exploit the masses, as Sniper might maintain.

Sniper's meretricious attempt to construct a creative response to my previous letter was absolutely pitiful. Really, Sniper, stringing together a bunch of solecistic insults and seemingly random babble is hardly effective. It simply proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that there's always been suffering in the world, and wrongs have been and will continue to be committed. I always catch hell whenever I say something like that, so let me assure you that I have a problem with his use of the phrase, "We all know that...". With this phrase, Sniper doesn't need to prove his claim that his platitudes won't be used for political retribution; he merely accepts it as fact. To put it another way, if we are powerless to comment on his expostulations, it is because we have allowed Sniper to destroy our sense of safety in the places we ordinarily imagine we can flee to. Nonetheless, Sniper wants us to emulate the White Queen from Lewis Carroll's Through the Looking Glass, who strives to believe "as many as six impossible things before breakfast". Then again, even the White Queen would have trouble believing that Sniper can override nature. I prefer to believe things that my experience tells me are true, such as that I am reminded of the quote, "He, in his typical dereliction-of-duty mode, is trying hard to erode constitutional principles that have shaped our society and remain at the core of our freedom and liberty." This comment is not as incomprehensible as it seems because Sniper's belief systems are continually evolving into more and more longiloquent incarnations. Here, I'm not just talking about evolution in a simply Darwinist sense; I'm also talking about how if Sniper would abandon his name-calling and false dichotomies it would be much easier for me to provide people the wherewithal to address the legitimate anger, fear, and alienation of people who have been mobilized by Sniper because they saw no other options for change. We can all have daydreams about Happy Fuzzy Purple Bunny Land, where everyone is caring, loving, and nice. Not only will those daydreams not come true, but Sniper refuses to come to terms with reality. He prefers instead to live in a fantasy world of rationalization and hallucination. Certainly, he just reported that his vices are the only true virtues. Do you think that that's merely sloppy reporting on Sniper's part? I don't. I think that it's a deliberate attempt to show us a gross miscarriage of common judgment. Let me end by appealing to our collective sense of humanity: I leave it to more capable and intrepid folks to explore the full ramifications of Sniper's calumnies.


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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

ohhhhh lord.... are we doin this AGAIN?!?




Count Me Out

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adrian?  wth?!  now i need to get kappy over here to translate that for me...then he'll get stuck over here and we'll never see him again.....hmmmmm *thinking here"  ahhhhhhh now i see what you're doing.....good plan!    ;)




i got a pm this morning from lisa telling me her side of the story....hopefully all this can be straightened out IN PRIVATE.....so please, let's drop it now.....seby, would you consider having phill delete this thread?

And here is an other one; need to balence it out


My complaint about The Compainer
While you're probably sick of hearing about The Compainer, it is crucial that you read this letter. To start, by refusing to act, by refusing to clarify and correct some of the inaccuracies present in The Compainer's prognoses, we are giving The Compainer the power to force his moral code on the rest of us. What he is doing is not an innocent, recreational sort of thing. It is a criminal activity, it is an immoral activity, it is a socially destructive activity, and it is a profoundly flippant activity. The key to The Compainer's soul is his longing for the effortless, irresponsible, automatic consciousness of an animal. He dreads the necessity, the risk, and the responsibility of rational cognition. As a result, whenever The Compainer announces that people don't mind having their communities turned into war zones, his chums applaud on cue and the accolades are long and ostentatious. What's funny is that they don't provide similar feedback whenever I tell them that The Compainer's obiter dicta symbolize lawlessness, violence, and misguided rebellion -- extreme liberty for a few, even if the rest of us lose more than a little freedom.

To inform you of the grounds upon which I base my hijinks, I offer the following. There is no doubt that The Compainer will force square pegs into round holes in the immediate years ahead. Believe me, I would give everything I own to be wrong on that point, but the truth is that there's an important difference between me and The Compainer. Namely, I am willing to die for my cause. The Compainer, in contrast, is willing to kill for his -- or, if not to kill, at least to lead an unregenerate jihad against those who oppose him. You'd think I'd be pretty well inured by now to the lunacies of his vituperations, but I have to say that his reasoning is circular and therefore invalid. In other words, he always begins an argument with his conclusion (e.g., that the sun rises just for him) and therefore -- not surprisingly -- he always arrives at that very conclusion.

Perhaps one day we will live in a world where good people are not troubled by fear of prolix prigs. Until that day arrives, however, we must spread the word that The Compainer's stooges believe that The Compainer knows 100% of everything 100% of the time. Although it is perhaps impossible to change the perspective of those who have such beliefs, I wish nevertheless to open students' eyes, minds, hearts, and souls to the world around them. His weltanschauung is that the boogeyman is going to get us if we don't agree to his demands. That, in itself, will condemn us to live with haughty, truculent vigilantes any day now. Blackguardism doesn't work. So why does The Compainer cling to it? This is an important question because you don't need to be a rocket scientist to detect the subtext of this letter. But just in case it's too subliminal for some, let me thrust it into your face right here: The Compainer's memoirs are like an enormous wowserism-spewing machine. We must begin dismantling that structure. We must put a monkey wrench in its gears. And we must take action, because The Compainer's behavior might be different if he were told that ignoring the problem of absolutism will not make it go away. Of course, as far as The Compainer's concerned, this fact will fall into the category of, "My mind is made up; don't confuse me with the facts." That's why I'm telling you that you may make the comment, "What does this have to do with what I call addlepated delinquents?" Well, once you begin to see the light, you'll realize that with all their sham, drudgery, and broken dreams, his smear tactics are entirely doctrinaire. But let's not lose sight of the larger, more important issue here: his pathological, raucous fairy tales. And there you have it. The Compainer could really use a heart, just like the tin man in The Wizard of Oz.


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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I thought I'd add my two cents on this topic and will try to be as objective about this as possible.  First off, let me say that what Tonedeaflisa did was absolutely and unequivically not only immature, but just WRONG....she should immediately and totally apologize for her sniping against Syberchick's subs.  Syberchick had every right to analyze and then rank Tonedeaflisa's subs as she sees fit, because she did, after all, put her subs up for a critique.  I understand on one level where Syberchick was coming from....there IS a lot of fluff on SS and I had to pm a member privately who I deemed qualified to listen to some of my songs and provide me with a critique because my goal IS to improve my singing.  I appreciate any comments I receive on my subs, but also wanted someone to have complete freedom to also point out any negatives since it is very seldom done in SS.  The environment there is what it is for whatever reason it is at present.  

Now having said that, I also can understand why Tonedeaflisa may have been angry and hurt and thus, retalitated.  If I were a fairly new member and had been receiving nice comments from people, then all of a sudden someone who I rarely see and doesn't sub came to my page and gave me such low rankings (and I'm talking about relatively row rankings....most on here seem to be a 9 or 10....6 in the real world isn't horrible) on four or five subs in a row, I may have been taken back a bit.  I may have felt especially targeted by that person for humiliation since it wasn't done to anyone else....at least not on that many subs in a row.  I think ranking and critiquing songs here or there and at different times as they are submitted is fine...but critiquing several in a row was a bit overkill and was totally unnecessary. Sometimes doing what is ALLOWED is not necessarily what is  BEST for a someone....people do have feelings.  I believe honesty is fine when critiquing and I DO admire the fact that Syberchick IS honest and willing to give an evaluation of someone's work.  Maybe she was trying to break through the flufferitis environment, by giving some honest critiques...I just think a little discretion in the way she went about it would have been in order.  

I may be accused of fluffing....my average ranking given is a 10.  If I can't give a 10, I don't rank the person at all....mainly because of the very kind of sniping that goes on here, but also because of the present environment on SS....10 is considered good and everything else is considered bad....one learns to adapt.  So if that's the definition of a fluffer....I won't try to argue that point.  I don't, however, tell someone their sub was "awesome" or "fantastic" or use any other of those kinds of superlatives if I don't honestly feel that way.

I also differentiate between sniping, and someone taking the time to provide a legimate, thoughtful and honest critique.  Someone can give you a "9" which may not be considered sniping by some, but when the motive is because the other person gave you a "9" on your sub when you thought you should get a "10" that's sniping, too!!  It's the MOTIVE....is it out of good will and trying to help someone or is it payback?  If someone gives a "9" or "8" or whatever, they should tell the person why they ranked them that way.  The day I ever engage in that kind of retalitory behavior is the day I would leave this site permanently.

On a side note...I had read some of the other threads on this topic, and I can understand why some people have gone to a permanent JFF mode or choose not to rank at all....that's their choice and I respect that.  They've probably seen a lot more of the nasty stuff that's gone on here in the past than I have.

I've heard you sing Sweetie, you have nothing to fear.

Hey Seb...you want to give out the most honest "10" you've ever given...go listen to a young lady in SS by the name of doodleranch, I just heard her for the first time a few minutes ago, incredible singer....

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Jian,  this is absolutely amazing and coincidental,  literally within the past 1/2 hour I said this verbatim on the phone to a friend, and now I see it written in here !



Seby,

  What a few of us have done (within the last few weeks as Jeanne pointed out) is discussed this issue WITHOUT pointing fingers recognizing that "Critiquing" as a category (for whatever reasons) has had an extremely high failure rate in Singer's Showcase.. It has NOT, and WILL NOT work much of the time in the SS setting, unless "C" is treated as "sweet comments only". To make matters even worse, people that don't actually want "critiques", (and have implied this within the content of their responses to "well intended" constructive criticism) STILL submit in the Critique category..

  We've accepted this won't change, NOTHING we can, or should even try to do about it given the ridiculous and repetitive events that culminate in more and more feeling alienated from participating in a category meant to be constructive, that has for the most part failed.  Unfortunately unless a person has a REALLY tough hyde... MOST are not prepared to handle a "Critique", and MOST don't know how to offer a "critique" and it's become masochistic within Singer's Showcase to leave a literal well intended "Critique" since there's a likelihood it will be taken as a personal affront... THIS WILL NOT CHANGE..

Despite how some of us feel about  the concept "If you ask for a critique, and you can't handle it tough", many other's here still feel just leave the category and understand how singer's showcase actually is,  They feel work with what is, and just go with the flow.... Phill isn't changing anything, and the category has become a major source of "retaliatory feedback", and ego bruises with just the ocassional "Thank you for your honesty" in between. This WON'T CHANGE..

In the thread Jeanne is alluding to this was touched on, yet not obsessed on. Perspectives were exchanged in a non-accusatory manner and a few of us REFUSE to allow the stigma Singer's Showcase has instilled upon the "Critique" category to prevent us from attempting constructive exchanges in a different setting. Some of us DO want the option of members helping other members with their singing to exist, and it has for a short time been working in the thread Jeanne is discussing. Yet we're trying to get something going in an area where it's mutually accepted by those mature enough to state their needs, and accept the results of such requests; those that want it must do more than just post in a category, they must ask for it, and know they CAN deal with the process. Those that offer analysis are trying hard to help set a POSITIVE example of what "Critique" can mean without chastising anyone outside of the thread...

Personally, I'd have a separate and private forum like "newsletter" and "moderators" forum here in SS where members who want to work together to help one-another improve singing must join.  The group would have a pinned or stickied heading reminding people what Critique is, and what it's not.. Some description reminding people it's NOT an easy thing to endure, and it's often a humbling exchange where both the critiqued party and the critiquing party feel vulnerable, they are vulnerable,  there are certain normal defense mechs that pop up, when a person is receiving criticism,  yet this MUST be transcended for such a place to work,  it takes a great deal of tongue biting, and acceptance.. The goal being members helping other members with ONE motive, and that's positive gain. The people doing the critiquing would accept that ALL others are free to disagree with them. Ego would ideally be left outside the door of this place...The singer would let the critiquing parties know also "What they were attempting to do with a particular song", was it going for originality ?  or attempting to nail "the cover"....Disagreements would be respectful, and even the critiquing parties would NOT be exempt from constructive input from others... ALL as a result would learn more about music and musicianship... Similar to what goes on in the "Muses Muse" and other venues where members would like to have the option of helpfully exchanging both praise, AND area's that *they feel* (this is a subjective area) aren't quite as strong.  Interesting that in a few Emails, and PM's people asking for critiques, are actually NOT happy that other's are lying to them. People have become sensitized by what's going on in Singer's Showcase and understandably don't want to go against a grain of what's been working for most...a room WITHOUT actual critiques...

Those wanting to work this thru deserve the option of having a feature, if not in Singer's Showcase,  Elsewhere, where they aren't limited to dishonestly, and fear or reprisal because of their tactfully thoughtout constructive presentations, or critiques.. We're trying again, and it's working, problem is it IS time consuming to critique, and it takes more interest.. So-far I think Billy, CCindy, and Myself have participated, and  ALOT have constructively exchanged some interesting ideas...It does no good to worry about what isn't working in Singer's Showcase,  what I think does good is recognizing that given the right group of individuals some can be part of a solution to an existing problem, and rather than complain about what won't work incessantly in Singer's Showcase, Work together to create our own group where all that KNOW what a critique actually is, cut the BS and try to help one-another improve..

Those wanting to improve shouldn't lose out in system currently setup to handle "Listen and friendly comments" only...

Those that critique have limitations, MANY in a huge area such as music.. We aren't all familiar with all genre's of music,  it takes people saying "I'm not really familiar with that particular style", and perhaps someone else who is, to get this going... I was mentioning to Billy recently, that I do like Country, but grew up most of my life within a 90 minute radius of NYC... I don't have as much exposure to the style..I don't understand alot of traditional type country ballad. While Classic Rock and Ballad might be a stronger area for me, It'd be best I left Country styles for someone with more experience in that particular genre,  similarly "Classical" is very tough to critique.... It takes a trained person to optimally assist someone attempting classical style

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

well said, Rehead!  :worship:


tee hee.... that rhymed!

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uh oops... I (seby) just accidently posted under JVJ's name because I'm borrowing his laptop & didn't realize HE was the logged in user, not me UGH!!!!

sorry :p

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There are no accidents in a perfect world   - Blondie

(jean for real this time) is it Tikrit, Iraq? Just got an alert on my email that I was following this thread. Nuh huh... as Jagger said - once burnt - twice shy.
I share Nathan's sentiments. (goes back to his music studio)

jvj

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There are no accidents in a perfect world   - Blondie

now then....



BadSinger - who are you talking about?? You do realize that no one has even mentioned a guy up to this point, right? I'm not attacking you here, I'm trying to understand. Is this directed at me? Because the 'sniper' is ToneDeafLisa. We're both female.



Again, who are you talking about?? Has someone been attacking you that we're not aware of? I'm not even going to bother to respond to that stuff until we know who this is directed at.



Ok, I'm definitely missing something here. This has NOTHING to do with this thread.

Oh come on Crystal, you KNOW you LOVE it  (ya chicken)

 LMAO  LMAO

I've said it a gazillion times, and I'll say it again- I'm SO glad my hubby is not a member here, cause I would surely do that all the time......

As to the "topic" here, zipping my mouth shut, but I'm gonna be a "lurker".  :yes:

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♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥