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TY for the input and interpretaion.   Some just judge situations based on "molds" and not reality.

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pinkrose

Jesus, do you think i make up my reality?

I am a product of my experiences.

Women declared the Gender War, not me.

THEY decided to go out there and act the way they do today. All I do is adapt to it.

I'm telling you the way it is out there....I live it, I adapt to it, and I survive it.

And as always since the dawn of time, men will be held responsible for what women do, not them.

Ladies, if you don't like my attitude, then you change it...but first get one thing straight.....I ain't down on women....I just don't react to them like I used to....Instead, I take care of me first....What's left, I allow them...And that means I get where I need to be.....And it just so happens that Men who are going somewhere are the most attractive and have their choice of women.

not going to say much here....just a few questions....

you're a product of YOUR experiences....have you had many?.....do you ever wonder WHY you have?.....you get soooooooo angry when you talk (belittle) about women.....why?

and gender war?    :headscratch:

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What if I want to get clingy at times ?  My inner-child and me don't get along,  this Gestalt stuff is for the birds anyway.  I can't stand kids.. I don't do a good job of taking care of "Little Steve". My inner child wants a woman to nurture it !  I don't like the kid anyway..  I know there's ALOT of distain when it comes to cross gender roll assignment... Yet there is NO doubt in my mind that MANY males, and females want to be taken care of by their spouse... Males do at times "marry a mother figure", and females a "father figure"... There's little doubt in my mind people want to be nurtured and taken care of to varying degree's...

I think there's also ALOT of confusion when it comes to the pairing process....and quite honestly, this get's into the need for a "spiritual" entity I believe, since people can really hurt you...

As a youngster all was fine, heck I had my bottle, and though my parent's were GOD...  Than I got abit older, and saw things I didn't want to believe, that my folks (@$%&#!) up as do all humans,  it was pretty nasty discovering my folks couldn't guarantee me everything would be OK.... So I tried looking for assurance, and seeking external love from a female.. I wanted a stronger woman, because I got sick of feeling a need to always be in control, and I wanted to give that up, and become dependent on someone.... That didn't work... JUst like my folks, she was a real (@$%&#!) up too, and than the next one... So I went from the baby bottle, to "the bottle", and boy did I "hit the bottle big time", for external love, and assurance....

So what have I learned

1-  My parents can't make it all better
2-  A woman can't deal with my probs and become a surrogate mother
3-  Alcohol is an abusive parent

and here I am, still looking to get "taken care of"

Maybe my best bet would be to call "the mob"

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

This is undisputable.  It's true.  Ultimately *WE* must heal ourselves.. At least that's what almost all sources seem to say... Thing is,  I can't help but wanting to "wuss out" alot of the time, and get "taken care of"..

What I've come to believe Keith, and why I spend so much time alone, is because when I view stuff from my own experiences, it's pushed me into an existential mind-set,  forced me to become a solipsist, who believes that emotion, ESPECIALLY romance is illusion,  it's not a "real" component of how relationships really work, or what they actually are... Look around (with the exception of the very few relationships such as Melly's which appear to be working relationships). The spouses are miserable,  They seem to not want to be alone, yet they can't stand being stuck together..  It pays I suppose, to learn how to be alone in life... I don't like this, yet I believe it's true... Over 1/2 married couples are suffering... What's the point ?

It becomes emotionally exhausting.  I can't keep going thru relationship pains. It's just way too much to endure IMHO...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Kappy your scaring me

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

Well, If it's any consolation, I'm used to living being scared... It's become one of the few things that let's me know I'm alive....  Was there one or two particular excerpts that scared you ?   Most of this stuff scares me too.... Yet I'm used to it unfortuneately...I have no vices, no crutches, no God.... I miss that feeling of reassurance "that everything will be OK"....Closest I can get to it these days is playing back me rambling the phrase on a tape recorder..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It seems to be an observation of mine that you are like many who can really interpret a situation for what it is or is not and give helpful analysis. But my concern is that it empties your own physical well, or is it also theraputic on your behalf as well? This is by no means an insult, more of a compliment and concern jesture.

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pinkrose

Sounds like the passion, any passion for life is missing.

Funny how you didn't mention Music.

I understand.  It's actually the other way around though. The "Well" has always been empty, likely even since infancy.. I've always felt "detached" sort've like "The fool on the Hill",  I watch, observe, think about those that "do" and "live".. The way I am in here is spontaneous usually, a few things have got me thinking yet that's almost always had more to do with music chatter, and I love learning new things, listening to the tech stuff keeps me thinking, that's an area I have a block in, because I come from a line of technical, and VERY strict males who tried forcing it down my throat. A couple of drill sgt type electrical and mechanical engineers... So I stick my tongue out at that stuff .  Relationship talk, and social science aspects I've been involved with for ages, nothing in this area drains me, or requires any thought. Given certain conditions that play over and over again, and certain facts or alignment, watching other's relationships when the pieces are setup, is no different than watching a game of chess being played...The more facts you have about both sides, the easier it becomes to know that there are only limited moves left when there's trouble..Depending on how much of the game is presented,  sometimes it's evident that checkmate is only a few moves away. Unfortuneately looking at others relationship problems after a long time of doing-so, VERY little regarding how "emotions play out" is new. In most cases, moving of pawns just stalls the inevitable tho ...viewing someone elses relationship is just having someone else set up two sides of chess pieces for you, and asking, "now where should I move"..It get's pretty easy,  yet I do feel bad when people are suffering I suppose, so that in a way get's to me, but not the actual analysis.. It's just an area I have an aptitude for, the other stuff causes an "analysis paralysis", I seem to drive myself crazy with the stuff I can't control about me...Wondering if I "can" control it,  That serenity prayer drives me banana's, I lack the key elements..... I don't "accept", I resist change, and I have NO courage when it comes to life's tragic aspects...There's ALOT of that in life.. IMHO

When I have the time to really focus, that's what I love about getting into the "Singer's Showcase" aspect of this area, and even the "critique" area,  it get's me involved in an area I'm comfortable in... dialogue, and observations in here don't require thought, in actuality usually I'm multitasking while here.. I think if I had a wish, It'd be to become stoic.. I'm sick of feeling....  Not at all depressed mind you... It's exhausting...I suppose all I do in here is "meant" to be therapeutic for me, that is why I hang-out.. ANYTHING that gives me a reprieve from my noisy head is a welcome vacation...



I forgot about that ,  I really did...and I always do..You ever experience that feeling of "misplaced longing" and "craving" ?  Music sometimes just ends up feeding the cycle...It's something I've been doing for so long,  to me music is like chatting,  it used to be my "pickup line"... Now-adays, it's like doing what I do alot in here,  which is type to myself .... Interesting though Keith, It's so much apart of me, I forget about it being an interest.... I just do it..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Passion?

Is there any?

Come on Steven, what stirs you deeply?

Keith,  believe it or not, EXACTLY what stir's you..  Yet when is a passion an illness ?

Problem is, NOTHING else is quite as exciting, in fact it's downright boring when you throw in the towel...My passion was an obsession...I'm trying to change my perspective, and to be quite honest, it's a pretty boring process.

I was compulsive.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I was hoping you would say woodworking or maybe fishing.

So that means I'm left to chase skirts all by myself and you won't get off the porch or even woof along with me...Steven, are you telling me that if we two were together fishing and a cute blonde swimming lost her top, you would only yawn and crank your reel a click?

I think you know the answer to that... incidently I wanted to mention something about a site to you


Yeah I'd woof along with you,  but I wouldn't doggy paddle your bathing trunks, watch, and shoes back to the deck in my mouth... I get tired of getting invited on dates to carry the couples picnic basket

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Yeah,  Woodworking  :biggrinthumb:

_________________
Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I understand.  It's actually the other way around though. The "Well" has always been empty, likely even since infancy.. I've always felt "detached" sort've like "The fool on the Hill",  I watch, observe, think about those that "do" and "live".. The way I am in here is spontaneous usually, a few things have got me thinking yet that's almost always had more to do with music chatter, and I love learning new things, listening to the tech stuff keeps me thinking, that's an area I have a block in, because I come from a line of technical, and VERY strict males who tried forcing it down my throat. A couple of drill sgt type electrical and mechanical engineers... So I stick my tongue out at that stuff .  Relationship talk, and social science aspects I've been involved with for ages, nothing in this area drains me, or requires any thought. Given certain conditions that play over and over again, and certain facts or alignment, watching other's relationships when the pieces are setup, is no different than watching a game of chess being played...The more facts you have about both sides, the easier it becomes to know that there are only limited moves left when there's trouble..Depending on how much of the game is presented,  sometimes it's evident that checkmate is only a few moves away. Unfortuneately looking at others relationship problems after a long time of doing-so, VERY little regarding how "emotions play out" is new. In most cases, moving of pawns just stalls the inevitable tho ...viewing someone elses relationship is just having someone else set up two sides of chess pieces for you, and asking, "now where should I move"..It get's pretty easy,  yet I do feel bad when people are suffering I suppose, so that in a way get's to me, but not the actual analysis.. It's just an area I have an aptitude for, the other stuff causes an "analysis paralysis", I seem to drive myself crazy with the stuff I can't control about me...Wondering if I "can" control it,  That serenity prayer drives me banana's, I lack the key elements..... I don't "accept", I resist change, and I have NO courage when it comes to life's tragic aspects...There's ALOT of that in life.. IMHO

When I have the time to really focus, that's what I love about getting into the "Singer's Showcase" aspect of this area, and even the "critique" area,  it get's me involved in an area I'm comfortable in... dialogue, and observations in here don't require thought, in actuality usually I'm multitasking while here.. I think if I had a wish, It'd be to become stoic.. I'm sick of feeling....  Not at all depressed mind you... It's exhausting...I suppose all I do in here is "meant" to be therapeutic for me, that is why I hang-out.. ANYTHING that gives me a reprieve from my noisy head is a welcome vacation...[quote]

I understand the "paralysis" issue. It can almost feel as if your treading in deep water with leg weights on. That can be a situation that there is no way of easing unless you figure how to pull the extra weight off.  As for Drill Seargant--OMG-- quarter bouncing off the bed, yes Sir, no Sir, ---self explanatory.

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pinkrose

Okay, I wasn't going to post on this subject because of how personal it is and I don't know you but after viewing the posts talking about women as dogs, women as something to be used, and this woman being viewed by some as not for you, which of course she may not be...  There are other types of women...  Some of us aren't girly, girly, don't flirt, don't need a man to open a door for us and guide us through a crowded room like a knight shielding a fair maiden from the ills in life nor do we play games.  We enjoy the ability to care for ourselves and the ideal man for us is one who can respect a woman like that and be comfortable enough in their own skin to not be threatened by it.  It takes a strong man to be with a strong woman.

Your girlfriend stating that you were being to clingy might have only been at that time and that she really wanted to dance right now and let the music move her, period.  It could have meant that she felt you were being clingy at more times than that and that was her way of telling you; by moving away to dance and have fun was not necessarily ditching you either way, she could have been in a dancing mood, she knows who she came with and who she was going to leave with, you could have started dancing with her and at another time told her you would like to talk about what she said.  It may have appeared that you were pouting by walking away and assuming she knew where you were.  I'm not saying that any of this is what your reality is but it is a different perspective on it.

I had a boyfriend when I was in my late teens, he was 21.  He had a pickup and wanted me to sit in the middle.  I don't like sitting in the middle, I like my space.  Whether this has something to do with claustrophobia or not I don't know.  It really bothered him, he felt he was to open the door and me slide over and thought I didn't like him so I wouldn't sit by him... I just wanted my space... I also don't like booths because they restrict your freedom of movement, not for any other reason...

Being in the bars I see alot of the relationships that appear possessive and the possessive ones usually are clingy/controlling.  I'm not saying that clingy people are possessive tho, there are any number of reasons why someone would appear clingy that have nothing to do with possesiveness, it could have something to do with insecurity.  Keep in mind you don't need to be joined at the hip for you, she and everyone else to know how much you care for each other.

If anything I've said makes sense to you or possibly applies to your girlfriend, all is not lost.  If she would agree to talk with you about what happened that night, one of the first things you ought to ask her about is what her definition is for clingy and what specifically bothers her & why.  It also might show you something about yourself.

As far as her having one foot out the door, I kinda see that one too.  That may be driven by the fear of getting hurt.  It's easier to leave if you tell yourself you are not totally committed...  Time sometimes changes this if the relationship is nurturing and loving.

I also don't think she's cheating or was dancing to show everyone she was availabe.  She probably wanted to dance, perhaps you were restricting her movement, aka clingy, and once you stopped she was free to enjoy the music, never thinking that you saw it from a WHOLE different perspective.  I'm still not completely sure what you mean by her ditching you, she was 15 steps in front of you dancing, she didn't leave or make a beeline to some other guy and act like an a$$.  She just danced.

Ok, I'll stop now,
Susie

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