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Wow, I must really be a lucky man!

My UB-1622fx must be turned on for a year and a half now and still working, my first UB mixer is still working fine for my brother and my second mixer the MX-802 (I think??) also works fine for my dad!

Hey, please don't think I'm a big fan of Behringer now, I just feel we should thank them for forcing the competition to lower their prices! I'm still the same guy recommending a Yamaha over this brand   I just can't figure out how come you guy's have all these problems when no one around me has these issues???

Not long ago, I had in mind to change my UB-1622 and still do to be honest, but for different reasons! I love the new Yamaha's and was under the impression I could improved my mic inputs by changing to a Mackie or Yamaha, wrong, I was told, they said all mixers at that price range will have poor mic pre-amps and if my UB works fine, all I really needed was a Lamp pre-amp that only cost me $149,00 cnd! Amazing the difference, so I couldn't really care the brand of mixer I'm using now, all I need is a line in and balanced in/out to connect to my E-MU 1212m

Exactly what I've been trying to say, TYVM

It's the reason I bought a Lexicon MPX 110 and a DBX 266XL, you get a quality product at a very good price!

Thanks Uli

Hey, thanks for the suggested models, will sure check them out

You are correct, I use to mix with my AKG haedphones (you see, not a Behringer!) but since I bought my new mic pre-amp, I find the mid to be much better and therefore think that the monitors are doing what they're suppose to!

Would you beleive me if I tell you I own a pair of Rogers Studio 1a, yep, the speakers that were designed for the BBC and that CBC is still using! It would cost me too much to find a good amp to drive them, too bad!

Actually the Mackie VLZ series have much better pre-amps, these are the same ones they used on their 8 buss series recording boards & the ONYX series are even cleaner than those - but the pricetag is also a little more too.

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Lon have you ever or have you seen anybody add like a m-audio dmp3 or a tampa (cant afford a tampa ) to a mackie with the weaker pres?

I understand this is meant to be sarcasm Tim, yet this can be turned around too.

People buy a model or make, have recurring probs. Car is in the shop too much of the time, particular car "appears" to be a lemon. (They may know of one or two other's who've had similar probs, yet it's deemed "coincidental") Until years later a class action suit reveals it actually isn't, and the car is recalled. Sometimes the company know's things they aren't divulging to the consumer  !

What *I'VE* found doing extensive reading of reviews on this type of thing involving consumer brand electronics (in this area lately) is as I've stated.  This discussion in here is by no means unique.  Experiences in here are individual's facts, and the experiences in here are really just a microcosm of what people in other audio boards are maintaining as well. It's the consensus that Behringer is in a league of it's own based solely on "Price point".  Noone touches them in this area. MOST in todays economy especially can't afford NOT to consider them based on what many say which is  "Under 1/2 the price, great features", HOWEVER there are too many having these exact same discussions ALL over the internet,  It really doesn't fluctuate assuming a discussion hasn't become a "Follow the board leader" game.

Does this mean Behringer isn't a good product ?   Nope...   Might it mean Behringer is deliberately allowing about 30% of their products to slip by quality control checks ?
That's what I wonder.  If the auto industry has done it in the past.  Based on reviews, as well as different individuals facts regarding Behringer "like" products. There's just something that vacillates too much for me not to feel a possibility is that Behringer might possibly be playing around with numbers and stat's here... What is being said here is typical of what's being said in ALL sound boards, and consumer grade electronics boards that *I'VE* personally read.. I'd love to buy Behringer based upon "price point", yet I have a feeling Behringer is doing more corner cutting, than just trying to circumvent FCC costs... It's just how this appears to me as an outside person who'd have bought them in a heartbeat had I not done ALOT of reading in OTHER boards as well..

Yes,  this is just my opinion.. or "gut feeling"...

Something deliberate is happening. So what this means is that you pay less, yet you do take more of a chance with this particular Brand.  Might depend on particular time period of manufactured products, or locations they are being shipped to.  Who knows ?  My uneducated guess is that what I'm reading is not just "coincidental"..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

A good external pre-amp will help on any board but definitely on the lower quality boards they will help quite a bit.  We didn't use the ones in your question, we used an Audio Technica 4033 mic running through an Avalon VT747 on our Mackie 32*8 buss for recording only.  Couldn't have had a sweeter tone.  I did try it once on my Mackie 1604 & the results were just as good.

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The VLZ 1402 Pro would be a good choice but do you think the mic pre-amp would give me the richness of a lamp pre-amp? The pre-amp I bought is the TUBEPre from Presonus and they told me I would need to spend at least $1000.00 CND on a Mackie board to get something has good? Mackie seems to have a different opinion based on their publicity!

I did a search and yes, this mixer is obviously a very good product that should last a long time! I think I'll go shopping again pretty soon!

Thanks!

I have only worked in one plant but also had some factory training by RCA and others for warranty certification..  Here are a few insights.. In the past the initail cost in any new electonic product either consumer or commercial   was in design (engineering)  and development. After 2 or 3 years as all the bugs were worked out and assembly lines were efficient and qality control was established, the price dropped..  That isnt so much the case anymore because most products are designed to fail right after warranty expiration.. (It is an exact science) The shelf life of batts are one good exanmple...

All plants buy their parts by classification. For example they might buy 25.000 transistors at a nickel apiece.. These are class a and have a failure rate of lees than 2%.. If I rember right the classes go to class d ( penny apiece) which might have a failure rate of 25-50%..  Next is quality on the assembly line versus daily quotas.

I worked for Ampex in Colorado Springs which at that time was making the big 2 inch video tape recorder and had the market with all tv stations and production companies..  I repaired the video proc amps and ran a battery of stringent tests on every one  before they went to packing and shipping It used to be everything had 2 or 3 quality control stamps on it.  Quality control is lacking anymore as is everything else. When the economy suffers from high taxation and goverment regulations more and more corners are cut employess benefits are cut and it is hard to find a good American product anymore.

I have stated in other posts the main thing I look for is customer support. If I can get a schematic for anything I can modify it and make it do anything I want.. The only trouble with that anymore is multi layered circuit boards and surface mount components...

Did you bypass the pre and go directly into the insert?  Or just into the 266xl and then into the insert I guess it wouldnt make any difference just curious...

Like I said, any decent external pre-amp is going to be better than any on-board, however I have recorded with the 1604 without the aide of an external with excellent results - although the one time I did, it was almost a night & day difference, but it was a $2500 pre-amp I used as well (no it wasn't mine )
The Presonus is a decent little unit, I always use an ART Tube MP for recording now days just because it works well when I use my computer.  The price you were quoted (if i'm reading the converter correctly) is actually a little cheaper than that board runs as well, 1000 cdn converts to 831 us, which the 1604 runs about 899-999 us.  But in fact all of their VLZ line uses the same pre-amps from the 1202 on up.  

Our own karyoker has also done spec checks on some of the Mackie boards (if I am recalling correctly) & has stated that everyone he's tested has met or exceeded their printed specs.

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Yeah,  planned obsolescence.  Can someone kindly point me to a company that says, "I want my end user to get a great product that last's a lifetime" ?  I'll easily pay between 2-3 times as much assuming this is the actual goal.

Karyoker,  I know I can drive people crazy with my love for SOME of the "older products", yet all BS aside.. Some makes have a great track record for products that still work well 50 years later...  To me this means they've withstood the "test of time"... We are still learning about the newer digital equip.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

I wish I had your ability Karyoker.  Rather than purchase the "Vintage Reissue" rhetoric.  I'd be able to tell if it is actually "reissued" with the same old quality, or does it pay to buy the actual vintage product defective, and rebuild parts of it ?


Remember Heathkit, and Hallicrafter's used to cost more unassembled than assembled towards the end ?  In fact, you can still by unopened kit's on Ebay, although they sell for ALOT.  Were there advantages to building these yourself assuming you knew what you were doing ?   Did a person with some tech knowledge assembling their own amp, usually do a better job of it's intricate assembling detail than the manufacturing plant often did ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

We actually just ran the mic to the pre & the pre to the board via the XLR.  Had to turn the gain pretty much off, but once everything was dialed in it sounded great.

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That's how I'm connected but turned the gain off completely on the mixer, it's what I was told to do, just need a line in!

Thats good to know . Yea I have run tests on the dfx12 pre last time with a real time (software generator) and looked at the input of the pre and gain out of the insert out with a calibrated dual trace scope.  It had a 50 db gain from 16 hz to 30 khz at -3db although looking at the specs they do say  -1 db.. I have used cheap mixers that seem to have more gain though.. it just dont seem right I sure would like to try the onyx pres...  Thanks Lon..

Steven, did you ever build any kits by the PAIA company?  I built one of their
first analog synthesizers in kit form back around 1972.  Quite a challenge.
Everything worked, but the VCO was not very linear -- major pitch problems.
I sure miss building kits -- Heathkit, Dynaco, PAIA, Hafler.  Good times if you're an electronics geek!  LOL

Don, I did actually buy a kit from "Heath",  when I saw what I was in for I sort've "froze" and went running back with my tail between my legs returning it. Although instructions were usually furnished, these were always for the person who as you mentioned "Tended to be an electronics Geek".  I never had that type aptitude. For some reason, I confused these kits with buying a 100 piece puzzle at the local toy store.. These were intended for the person who was at least slightly technically inclined. THey required at least basic knowledge of electronics. I did however end up buying a few "assembled" Heathkit SW Receivers from individuals who I thought WERE in fact technically skilled... In all cases, these individuals ran into probs just with the basic radio's...

Two I currently own are the Heath AR-2 communications receiver from mid 50's, and the Heath GR-54 4 band SWR from about 10 years later.  Another rig is also downstairs and it was a kit, at one point wasn't it Allied-Radio Shack ? I think this might be Allied-RS receiver.... BTW, It drove me crazy the way the plastic face plate ALWAYS cracked on the GR-64...  I also own alot of Lafayette, and national electronics kits too.... (assembled of course)  Here's to nostalgia..

http://www.dxing.com/rx/gr54.htm

Don, PiAi goes back a few years... Around the time of the Arp 2600, wurly EP's, and moog kits..... I think their model was the PiAi Gnome.
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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

From previous threads I kinda understood you were friends (sending each other guitar and do forth, that thread was removed by admin)
Both of you, your German blows. You don't use the official form between friends. Using something like AltaVista Babel fish for direct translations clearly shows.

Steven ~
Yes at one time Allied Electronics did team up with Radio Shack.  They put out some good, fun kits.  You could make a little FM transmitter, hook your stereo up to it and have your own little pirate FM station with a range of about 500 ft.  At age 15 in 1969 that seemed pretty cool, that is if you were an electronics geek.  Lafayette Electronics was cool too.  I still have my 4-channel quadraphonic converter.  You would hook it up to the L-R speaker outs on your stereo and you could get 2 extra
channels of the natural ambience in the rear speakers.  It was completely passive.
Sounded better than some of todays digital effects really.

The PAIA synthesizer I made preceeded the Gnome.  The first "keyboard" controller it had wasn't really even a keyboard.  In order to keep costs down, all they gave you was wire contacts with buttons on one end that you'd push on.  Needless to say I did upgrade to a real 2-1/2 octave keyboard.  You had to patch all the modules together with cables like the early Moogs and ARPS.  OK, back to the 21st century!