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Cindy,  take a look at this horrible life he had, quite sad..Yet kind've interesting, especially when he first recorded and "Blew the board" ????


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meat_Loaf

Cindy,  I never knew Meatloaf was in the production "Hair"..That's interesting !  Now I have to check my 33 Rpm that I have right near me here, and see if he's credited for recording any of the album cut !  (I keep a few really good LP's around still,  JC Super Star,  Hair, etc..... the classics !

No place is Meatloaf listed on the 1968 RCA Victor Dynagroove LSO-1150 Original Broadway Cast Recording of "Hair"  The American Tribal Love-Rock Musical...(I forgot Diane Keaton was in Hair)

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Cindy, Billy, Jeanne, or anyone for that matter... If you want us to start a thread for folks that do want a critique...How should we go about a description ?  What possible guidelines should we list ?  To just start a thread that say's  "Critique" and nothing more might not work....Don't we need a description ?  Any idea's ?  Which one of you folks want's to start it ? What should we list ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

regarding those that claim, "I don't care what anyone thinks about my work", I don't follow this, it seems like a defensive statement, but not a statement of fact IMHO

Lonman, I'm probably missing something here but I don't follow this logic. I know many are quick to say, "I don't care what other's think", but If a person want's to upload their work into a venue, isn't it implied that they care to a certain degree what other's in the venue think ? Otherwise, why would a person want to share their work with those who they "couldn't care less as to what their opinions of them are" ?
It's alot of work to do this as I understand it. It's got to go beyond just "exhibitionism". My own thought's are, I can make claims that, "I don't care what anyone thinks of me", yet the fact that I'm a regular participant in a venue I would think refutes my statement. Just basic psychology.  I don't go out've my way to type to just "space". So I don't understand what "I don't care" means in this sense.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It's subbed!  It was the song that I had on there before that I felt wasn't very strong.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

........i'm thinking you and cindy would be the perfect people to work that out....so we're waiting!!    :worship:

billy subbed one for CRITIQUE the other night.....i honestly tried but couldn't get past  all the sexy uh huhs and stuff to concentrate......no doubt you'll have the same problem....

I just listened to it... no way is it a 4 ..... but I wouldn't call it 9 or 10 either.  I'd give it a 7 minimal ... maybe 8.  

First off...there are lots of what are nearly acapello vocal phrases.  Not easy stuff to pull off ... but you DID.  You have a strong voice, held pitch well through those phrases ... and although I don't really know the original piece, Im gonna guess it wasn't too far off from it.  Only reason I wouldn't have given it a little higher score is because there are few times when I DID hear what I think you called warbled sections ..... where you were "reaching" to hit some of those really "top notes".  What I actually heard were a few pitch breaks.  

What I can tell you is that based on what you told me about your original sub of this song... I expected that I was going to here mediocre..... and I definately didn't.  You have a strong voice, Lonman.  Not sure this song gives the listener enough to judge other vocal areas.   Ever sing any Bon Jovi stuff?  I get a sense that you'd really do some of his songs justice.  

I think you were too hard on yourself.. ranking it 4.  IMO certainly no less that a 7-7.5.  But then again...... that is JMO.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I listened to War Pig's, and this is my own opinion Lonman.

You seemed more comfortable when the song got into the D to A range or the part where you were singing:

"Politicians hide themselves away, they only started the war
Why should they go out to fight, they leave that to the poor"
etc.
You seemed more comfortable once the song was in this vocal area..

The "Oh Yeah Lord" portion he sings, I thought you pretty much nailed. It sounded excellent, I liked the tiny bit of gravel you were able to get in there, I thought that made it sound especially good.




That first verse where Ozzy's jumping around the E major ascending and descending triad  from the root to the octave is difficult. This particular part or the first verse beginning with


where he spans the E octave jumping around the major triad (with a few blues scale passing tones thrown in), is a pretty hard grouping of interval jumps to sing and nail head-on in full strong voice, he really attacks the intervals when he sings that portion, and that could use some strengthening IMHO...Just a little more confidence with interval singing I think would strengthen those jumps. You seemed to have abit of trouble hitting the low E after descending.. That's a difficult part, not just because of phrasing, but because given the way those notes are hit, in this particular song there's zero margin of forgiveness..


I liked your vibrato technique, it sounds to me as though you have a clean voice that would be suited for clean rock vocal styles.

If you wish for any particulars, or any more specifics, I'd be happy to exchange some thought's via Email.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Right on, see THAT's the kind of opinion i'd like to see!  Thanks!

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I feel in so many ways the "rank" option here is counterproductive.  How does assigning a numeric value offer information that a person might find useful ?  People have strengths, and they also have areas that they can do a bit better in.. We ALL do.  My feelings are that taking the time to listen and respond is the only way we can really be of help to one-another in Singer's Showcase.  If it means people critiquing less because of time aspects, that's fine.. Critiquing a person takes some time. I don't want to slap a "rank" on a person as a substitute for trying to offer constructive feedback.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

  You know me !    Looking forward to listening,  I never meant to stray from this thread a few day's back, but I got distracted in KS, and as I was clowning around, this thread slipped further down the list, and I forgot.  Just saw this post earlier this morning. Promise I'll get to it. This evening, or tomorrow !  Likely tomorrow, need to get some rest.   Last thing I want to do is forget about the singing aspects of KS... That's why I joined to begin with !  Sorry

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Well done Steven ...  :clapper:

I don't have the time to critique anything note by note or octave by octave .... if THAT is what folks want... I simply need to bow out gracefully.  

I can give an overall impression ... and specify certain "vocal" inaccuracies... as perceived by what I consider to be a good critical ear... but I simply do not have time to do what you did.  

You provided a a very positive constructive critique .. with a whole lotta very specific detail...

I'll leave that stuff to you .. guess I only have time to be a generalist.  

Looking forward to reading more from you .... I think many will benefit from your expertise.  

Hope ya got some good rest!  Hugz  :D

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I really have no particular method.  My only goal is to try to help the INDIVIDUAL person who's singing as much as possible. NOONE for the most part has the time to do a few critiques like this daily, my feelings are that with so much talent in KS, and SS, with 20 people critiquing those that GENUINELY want a "Critique", we'd only each need to actually "Critique" 1-2 individuals that genuinely want a critique every few weeks.  I realize that most people don't have the time to actually "Critique", which is why the last thing I'd wish to do, is expend time on someone someplace who doesn't really want others opinions, or feels well intended effort is a "slam".. Unfortuneately as we've all found out in Singer's Showcase, much of the time someone might take time to listen, and end up hearing, "Who do you think you are telling me that" ? It's sad too,  some pretty talented musicians have been offended in Singer's Showcase. Yet in my opinion CCindy, (and this is just *MY* opinion), by definition, the "critique" MUST be specific, otherwise it's "Comments", and as many mentioned in this type venue MUCH harder to help another, so specifics must be referenced...IMHO,  If it's not a detailed analysis, and doesn't get at all intricate it's just not a "Critique"...Yet it doesn't need to be all or none either...People can even mention a certain aspect they like about someone's singing...or just a particular...
In most cases however, depending on a persons own preferences, MY thought's are that the critique should be specifically asked for in the body of a person's song description, it can be private OR public, yet the singer decides !!  The primary goal is to help THAT individual, not for the person doing the critiquing to try to "show off" and take stage, there should be NO ego involved, just desire to help... the term would best be "comments" for the VAST majority in SS... Not critique.

No ONE person can do the critiquing here...As I mentioned, there's ALOT of talent in SS....MANY are ALOT more skilled than I am..It's just desire, and effort to critique...
As I look at it CCindy, it's sort've like the tech room.... We'd want a group that is willing to critique folks that genuinely want the critique, and it's an exchange of information. A dialogue. Yet no one person can do this of course, it'd wear them out.. Ideally if there's a group of 10 or 15 people that can work together to help others that are more serious about their music, it can work IMHO... Perhaps fewer if fewer ask for critiques... I suppose it all depends, there are singers in SS, and just those that want to have fun with Karaoke, the critique is for those who want to better themselves as "singers" IMHO....and as you know none of us are impervious to getting our feelings hurt either, another reason it's helpful to have a larger group participating...The person doing the critiquing, must be willing to take some crossfire too IMHO...Nothing easy about a detailed process...It's an honest process...not a factual one necessarily...

ADDED IN:  One other thing.  FEW of us are "experts"...I know I'm not.. I'm a big kid that has limited experience in the rock genre of music, and a few other contemporary forms of ballad singing and music style.. There are a few in here that have years of singing training, and education experience...other's of us are musicians, but VERY few are "experts"... I think most in here just share an enjoyment of music, singing, and related equipment...with strengths and weaknesses alike..Some work at this as a profession, other's of us did, but are now hobbyists, but we're here to have fun..and we all view singing with varying intensity, some care little, others care alot..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

That's why I'm approaching cautiously !

I just listened to your rendition of "How can you mend a broken heart", It's so different a concept to me, that I need to sleep on it, and get used to the concept. You've incorporated nuances of Barry Gibb's vocal style, yet you've done the song in a very different style,  so it throws me for a loop. Until I get used to it, I can't analyze it, and tweak it in my head (assuming I think "tweaking" parts, or adding FX would be an asset IMO...) There's potential for alot of emotion, yet trying to integrate in my head how it could all fit together, where, and for what purpose given your voice and this song is perplexing to me.. In lieu of the fact this is such an unconventional approach to a sad song.

I will admit that a limitation *I* have, is that it takes a little time to digest a totally different style and concept,  I'm not an innovative person, since I'm pretty conservative and traditional, so I don't want to trip over limitations of "different styling" "different sound". I have a stubborn ear so this caught me by surprise, I need to listen at least a 3rd and 4th time !  At your level of talent, this is NEVER gonna be easy, because I'm not critiquing much technically..I'd only be critiquing the concept itself, and integrating ONLY what *I* feel, so it's absolutely subjective. I might have to call and ask my mother !   or hire a tutor !   Pssst,  CCindy... ????

I don't want to say ANYTHING until I'm used to the concept.  I'm going to listen to a few other songs you've done since I last listened to you. I'd have to ask you a few questions too..This is VERY difficult Billy !  

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This is JUST my opinion Billy

The recording and mix is fine, your musicianship is very good in the song; NOW for *MY* tastes, the nuances you use of Barry Gibbs, and your own vocal timbre in this can "work",  but outside of making a SUPERIOR ending track to a very sad movie, (which I would first tweak by giving your voice a more distant, and dramatic sound) I think the following choices would work better for your timbre.

If you want to do the Bee Gee's, I think the following songs are more suited to your particular cutting strength, and energy style..

Don't Throw it all Away on Love <----would be tough to do, yet would work
or
To Love Somebody

Also these Hollies songs

Long Cool woman in a Black Dress
He Aint Heavy, He's my Brother

SO:
Musicianship here is impressive, in terms of creativity it "works" but for me this excels in a particular setting.  IMHO this song is not the best vehicle and style for your voice as a performance within itself, I think this would be superior however and VERY marketable, assuming you wanted to utilize it...as a movie track, by cutting some of your voice presence in this particular song, giving yourself a slightly more distant dramatic sound, and trying to do away with the Barry Gibb similarities; The objective being *you* are conveying the part of somebody who's gone thru tragedy, singing as the voice representing someone who suffered tremendously and is no longer, as a closing track at the very end of a Drama/Suspense/Thriller/ horror film.  I think this could be marketable if the singing would either be representing the feelings of a man who lost his spouse, in which case this would be played during a finale track of the movie.., or a woman who lost her spouse, and this song is representing the tragic life of the man who suffered and is no longer, (as a final film track)...My own feelings are in such a setting this would be spectacular. A painful drama would be the optimal use of your voice here, because I feel you can convey MUCH more drama here with your ability, than Barry Gibb ever could. I'd utilize this as backdrop for a poignant tear-jerker ending.


JMO..  TOTALLY SUBJECTIVE...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Here's a very good suggestion for Charmin.. "Strong Enough" by Sheryl Crow.

(sorry had to sneak this in, she could nail that song, I just know it. I heard her sing for the first time this morning)

In the event she doesn't like Sheryl Crowe, I hope I didn't insult her...I just heard some amazing similarities.. and know with her timbre she could clone a few of Crowe's songs..Sorry if I got out've line here...

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Is that you up there CCindy ?    AT Billy's level, it's VERY difficult for me to feel I'm contributing anything helpful.  I feel he know's precisely what he's doing,  know's his objective..and can likely hear the result of his efforts astutely.

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

hi my friend.....oops Steven, ty so much for critiqueing that bee gees song...
i agree with what u saided.

with this song i just always loved the song and wanted to sing it,  not really careing how it came out,  i like trying new things, i get bored easy with singing so i try new things....as for that song, i think i did the best i could, its really not my style but it sure was fun, the key was a tad high for me, so i didn't really have the control i wanted, but lowering it took all the energy from it so i left it...

i am truly grateful u were honest with me, thats all i ever ask for, good r bad...how can i inprove if no one tells me things i may not hear, and at the same time still knowing its just there/your opinion,  i can agree r not, learn from it r not...we all have that choice,  to me this is the fun, not all the yes'es,  for the most part i know what i should have done r not done, and having said that i still miss alot,  thats why we need others like you i feel...and cindy, and jazzy, plus others because we all hear different things, good and bad.... i mean there r some out there that think bob dylan can sing.....go figure....u don't wanna hear  me singing one of his songs....ll

i did sing the song....TO LOVE SOMEBODY...not sure it turned out any better, but again it was so much fun singing songs u love...so much so that sounding good r correct takes second place, and as i'm singing for fun now, second place is where it belongs...

as for me beng hard to critique, i think u did a great job,

again ty so much my friend....take care

I really think that would be a fabulous songtrack to a movie however Billy ! I wonder how a person would go about marketing their material as backing track material for movies.  Who would a person submit their work to?  I listened to that song about 5 times trying to place where it would possibly shine, and movie track really hit me.. I think now-adays, alot of music especially late 60's, early 70's ballad, or just ballad we liked.. EVEN James Taylor, Harry Chapin, Jimmy Buffet songs unfortuneately aren't "Timeless" in-so -far as they can be introduced at anytime, to any generation, and that group of listener's will instantly take to them..I suppose no matter how professionally a person cover's certain material, even though it means ALOT to those our age, and older...If we performed it at a karaoke bar of 20 year olds.. They wouldn't be too happy...Bee Gee's in particular is VERY tough to do..I tried very hard listening to the song WITHOUT hearing "Gibb's" voice doing the part, than it occurred to me EVEN WITH Gibb's singing that part, 30+ years later, there'd be no place a band could really play that type song in 2006, sure a private wedding or slow school dance perhaps...but here's a question I have Billy.. are there some song's that just likely wouldn't be able to be "rejeuvenated" as marketable material today given their tempo, lyrical content, and melodic structure ? Yeah, we know Michael Bolton was able to bring back "To Love Somebody" but that was also many years ago, and IMHO that's among their best songs... Yet today in 2006. Besides a backing track...Is their away to innovate slow Bee Gee's songs ?  Could ANYONE make it sellable in 2006 given what the mainstream listener has become used to now-adays ?

Just a thought...  I don't know the answer...

It seems that with Lonman's song Ozzy made a comeback, as did Sabbath's songs, common "classic rock" stations play Black Sabbath song's that are close to 40 years old.. To me when I heard it, it was actually only a matter of perhaps 1 week since I'd last heard it....Alot of classic rock has been rejeuvenated, but IMHO, there is some classic ballad that might not be so easily resurrected, I HOPE I'm wrong...Yet I don't know... and in actuality, it shouldn't matter at all HOW old material is, WHEN it was popular, good music is good music....Thing is, we also get used to elements of change as listeners.. The mood of certain songs although I LOVE playing them, would have limited appeal today in 2006..So it is tough to speculate  "How could this be performed, so it would go over today".. "Could it ever go over today" ???

Ironically, it could be rejeuvenated by a movie track...often popular movies or TV shows expose listeners to a different style.. and IMHO, this would be perfect in that type setting.. That would be how this could innovate change perhaps...(one just never knows)

Incidently, I'd be thrilled if folks like Jazzy, Jason, Nathan, or ANY other's took part in this type discussion...It's the only way this type of thing can work, with interest and people seeing civil dialogue..and realizing that things aren't always black or white...That would spark interest, and perhaps turn-around a category that didn't work here.  The "C" category...IF people realized it's not about "dissing", "egos", or being correct, but it's an exchange of idea's about "THE SONG"...and it's presentation...with the goal to HELP SOMEONE OUT...nothing more, nothing less

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

hi my friend...i just wrote u a 30 min. pm then as i tried to copy it i lost all of it...so u will just have to guess as to what i said to u.......

i feel any song can be brought back, ifffff the right singer does HIS thing with it.
back when i was playing we had certain songs that most loved, and thet never got sick of them, altho we did....not to long ago, i went and heard my keyboard player, they were still playing alotta of those same songs, but to different crowds, and they still loved the songs, go figure, kids grow up hearing songs there parents loved,
 
in critiqueing i feel the person doing the critiqueing should know what the singer was going for, was it just for fun r was he/she doing her best...

i did a waylon /willie song once and did both parts on the same track, real time, it wasn't close to being right but i sure had a blast singing it...

each song to me brings something different,  1 may be saying just what i am feeling at the time,  another i might be feeling goofy that day and just have fun with it, not careing what it sounds like but haveing fun singing it....in both  i got what ( I ) wanted out of the song,  so to ME even tho neither was perfect it was to me....if i got what i wanted from it....
in some songs my heart hurts singing them, and i do my best to let the listner know just how i'm feeling,  if its a sexy song then i do my best to convey that also, the best i can anyway......

thats why when u critiqued my song and said it lacked feelin....more r less...u were dead on....that was just a song i sang because i simple loved it....i got what I wanted from it...plus its a different style for me....not MY style for sure but it sure was fun....

when i was in a group  i sang a little bit of everything, thats the only way i would have it....to do 1 style of music would drive me up the wall.
critique a song is in someways like reading a persons mind/heart....by saying....you weren't into the song, or u weren't feeling it....its fun to see if u get it right r not....for me anyway.....

take care my friend

It had feeling, I was going for tweaking it for a very different objective, my feeling was that for this particular song to stand out, some type of pain, or profound emotion would have to cut thru...really go beyond standard "sing it with feeling", your voice was strong,  I felt it should actually be more remote sounding and weaker..., making you sound more "withdrawn" and "distant", as in pain, in your own shell trapped ALONE...conveying an element of suffering....  JMHO... This MIGHT need to go beyond some "feeling"...My thoughts were cut all aspects similar to Barry Gibbs vocal dynamics and nuances as well, do your own thing and make it even MORE dramatic without hamming anything up...  That's how I felt it MIGHT be improved or innovated on..




I was going for a tragic eery "Tear Jerker" accompanying track to the end of a very unsettling drama/suspense film... VERY different effect I had in mind !

My guess is a producer, or someone who really "know's their stuff", would say I'm totally off base, and full of #&^*. I probably am (off-base that is), yet as we know, all I have is my opinion, it's not fact, or correct...It's the best I can do.. (which is why it takes more than one person to critique anything)



Disappearing content drives me nuts, and it does happen sometimes, never can figure out why either..

I've typed long thought out essay's too, and had them just "wiped up", it's MADDENING when that happens !  That drives me nuts when I lose content like that..


You are correct I think Billy,  It appears that just about everything has been brought back and usually during periods of a VERY different genre of music.. ALmost feels like,  "How the heck did someone sneak this song in the back door" ?  Yet it happens all the time, true..  Most noticeable contrasting style was around 1965, Desmond Dekker's  "The Israelites"... It just didn't fit ANYWHERE in top 40 radio...Yet there it was..

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Steven,

I am going to sub a song, maybe in a days time. Would you do the same thing to it, please? The critique need to be open, no PM or email. It can be use as an example.

See I have BIG problem in hitting the right note esp at the end of every line. When singing , I may or may not realized it. Even when recorded I can only detect those off pitch notes when they are really far off.

The other problem is tempo and timing; I generally have little or no clue as when to sing the next line. The song that I can sing I normally memorized the moment when to come in;line by line. That's why I can only sing karaoke. I do sing with a band but practice is such a pain; 3 evening to get a song right

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott