Karaoke Forums

Here in NJ effective April 15th smoking in public places will be come illegal .

Does your state have this and how do you think it will affect business and karaoke in particuliar?  My Saturday night bar gig is a heavily smoked bar - I mean when I get home you can still smell the smoke coming off my clothes etc.
Personally I don't smoke and don't care who does - so I don't want to make this topics about that --- JUST HOW DO YOU THINK IT WILL EFFECT BUSINESS if you are a smoker.....

Smoking in bars and restaurants has been illegal here in California for several years.. as a non smoker as of 20 years ago and witnessing my mother die from complications from doing so I think it's one of the best laws.  Especially for singers ( although many do smoke) but as a singer,  the last thing I need is to be coughing and breathing in the fumes.  I have come home many a nights with my underclothes soaked in Marlboro and thats from stepping outside where the smokers are!

Make sure you check into the the law very well.  Dallas has a no smoking ordinance on public places, however there is a a clause for bars.  I am not sure what the actual numbers are but a certain percentage has to be beverages in order for your business to have smoking allowed.  In essence it comes down to , if you serve food you are a restaurant and you can't smoke.

So most of the restaurant/bars have moved to the suburbs, there are still places in Dallas just because it is huge.  You find a lot of the places put in outdoor seating and that is where the smokers go.


Edited

I guess to answer the question ALLSTAR brings up below "How will it effect MY business?"  I would not continue to go to an establishment that did not have a smoking area.  It's hard after that second cocktail not to light one up and I like to have that option, if I so chose.[quote][/quote]

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Will sing or fish for food!!I'm not quite right!!

there's no smoking in bars or any public building up here.... It was a big fuss for a while cuz bar owners were SURE they'd lose business, but it hasn't been NEARLY as bad as people expected.

Every bar or restaurant I go to still has TONS of business.... then again, I haven't been to a nightclub in a dog's age, so I dunno how it's affected them...... but karaoke bars.... still good!

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Is nobody reading Jam's post????
How will it effect your business?


Thank you Crystal, that's what it's about.

Just as small businesses are sucummbed by malls, small mom and pop corner bars are going out of business. In areas where bars in an adjacent town or suburb still can allow smoking thats where all the action is for smokers or non-smokers and the bars where the ordinance was passed are closed.  If dont think so let me show you some bars that have been there for decades that are now closed. To say it doesnt affect business is ludicrous... It hasnt affected drinkers habits like Dui laws but more and more people are drinking at home now. An indicator is the increase in questions about home systems on this forum... The end result will be the only place to drink or karaoke will be in a large corporation's club in which case they will own their own system...

Any increase in regulations or laws, taxes, or state or federal harassment not only is bad for business, it kills it so big money can produce monopolys.. If you want to live in a bubble where you dont have odors and germs etc then go ahead but expect to go out in public and dictate your manias on everybody else and by the way I dont smoke....

Whats next if one is 50 pounds over weight then they cant eat in a public place?

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I am trying to figure out how it is so devestating to bars. The statistical averages show only 25% of the population are smokers. Most non-smokers prefer a non-smoking Bar. Why dont they have 25% of the bars be smoking......like a cigar bar, and the rest for the non-smokers. Everyone would have what they wont.

I was in Austin During the fall because of the Hurricane. They were complaining about having to go outside to smoke. But the bars there were full. I have nothing against smokers, but should it be preferable to make the non-smokers to have to go outside to breath fresh air? Some of those bars where they allow smoking are so thick with the smoke that you do have trouble breathing, and like my Ex used to do she would light one up then put it in the ash tray, so it would be lit when she wanted to hit it. Which was a minute time of the time it was polluting the air. If there was more courtesy, the laws might not have been nessicary.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

They just passed the no smoking law for any non-tribal restaurant/bar/bowling center/casino/etc...here as well & ours went one step further mandating ANY smoking area outside of the establishment must be 25 feet away from ANY door or window - even if closed.  Some of the bars have been going down just because they don't HAVE 25 feet to work with for a "legal" smoking area.  Some of the "bigger" bars haven't been hurt too much overall - although I do hear it's always more crowded outside than in!

Now I work in one of the Tribal bars & our business hasn't really changed - yet, except for our weekends, this has doubled - rotations on average 40.

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Here in Pinellas Co. FL, there has been a no smoking indoors law on the books for about 2 years now. The exact law is that is a establishment makes MORE than 25% of their profits on food, then they can not allow smoking.

The bar where I work was a pretty smoker-heavy bar before the law, then after the law went into effect, the owner decided to just ignore the law and see what happened. WELL what happened was, and I have heard this said about smoking bans nationwide, is that no one enforced the law.

Basically, the first complaint is a warning, the 2nd complaint is a $3000 fine, and the 3rd complaint is a $5000 fine and they close your bar for 30 days. BUT, as long as no one takes the time to make a big stink, there are no "no smoking police" out there.

So my bar got away with it for about a year and a half with no complaints to THE MAN. PLENTY of complaints to the bar, but no complaints to THE MAN. And since the smokers couldn't really go anywhere else, they flocked to the bar. FINALLY someone complained, we got our warning, he ignored it, then they compained again and my bar owner got hit with the $3000 fine (which was probably more than worth the 18 months worth of heavy business he got breaking the law).

With the $5K fine and 30 day shutdown being the next step, and one he was obviously not willing to take, the bar owner simply did away with serving food at lunch to be in complience with the 25% sales of food law. SO we are now in compliance and still the only bar for about 10 miles where you can smoke.

Now the one way in which the smoking ban DID affect business is the opposite of what you might think. Whereas before my bar was jsut another bar before the ban, it became THE smoking bar AFTER the ban. Hence, once non-smokers started getting used to 95% of bars being non-smoking, we lost a good bit of our NON-SMOKER crowd. I have plenty of friends that will absolutely not come to my karaoke because they hate the smoke, and know there are plenty of karaoke bars they can go to that don't allow smoking.

SO, in answer to your question, there are two sides to the coin and once all the bars in your town take sides on the smoking vs. non-smoking bars, you can reasonably expect to gain singers that want the environment your bar decides on and lose singers that don't care for it. In the end, it pretty much evens out both ways.

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Dr.
There are some places that are GRANDFATHERED...Cigar Bars is one of them as well as any establishment that earns Xamount of revenune from Tobacco products.
All other bars as well as private clubs (VFW, AMERICAN LEGION etc) are included with the NON SMOKING BAN.  Many here believe it wll hurt the local bars and clubs greatly --These are the bread and butter for Karaoke Business.  Hopefully it won't hurt my gig too bad ---I'll have my fingers crossed.

The big thing here in NJ is that the only places that have been EXLCUDED are the CASINOS.....GO FIGURE.....

JAM,
We sure don't wish anyone to lose out on Income, and such. It could be a good thing for your business. If there are enough non-smokers that wish to start coming, who don't now frequent bars because the Smoking is so Irritationg to them they have to refrain. You may actually gain more than you loose. Just from the statistics that only 25% of the pop are smokers..... there should be a gain. Not that there will be. Cross your fingers.

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I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !

Although very sporradic <sp>, there has been enforcement here.  Fines are similar, but they don't close the club, they just lose their liquor license for good.

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Fingers Crossed - I know some friends and family who didn't come in BECAUSE of the smoke so you may be right.  Hopefully people will come down and they can always go outside to have a smoke anyway.  I'm hoping that peoples need to DRINK outweight the need to smoke  :D

Casinos?  You do know who owns them.... Sporatic <sp too>  enforcement (money payoffs?)    Lose license  (cruel and unusual punishment?)

Now you know what the big battle about comfirming Alito is all about These things will be decided in the Supreme Court...

I don't think it has effected businesses here as there are as many drinkers as smokers and the 2 often go together.. I think it  could make drinking sales go up though.. s'cuse me Allstar.. didn't mean t get you up in smoke

Jam, What surprises me about this, is that Jersey has been MUCH stricter than CT regarding it's environmental laws. Yet we've had this law in place for at least two or more years. I'll list how smaller bar's tried to get around it, yet what I think the real problem is too.  I think I also mentioned this in your older thread regarding "reinventing the Karaoke Wheel", when I tried using Bar revenue as the biggest problem..


Clean Indoor Air Act (CT Gen. Stat. 19a-342), has been in effect for a few years now. It was recently amended in CT and NY to even stricter standards.. Small businesses for awhile were able to in part circumvent this by calling themselves  "membership clubs", rather than public venues (during bar hours only) Restaurant/Bars still were initially Smoke-free during the earlier hours. The shift from public venue, to "membership club", with a little tweaking given title changes tand going thru actions of handing out bogus cards worked up until the act was amended this past year, once amended it became tough for ANYPLACE to have smoking indoor's ANYTIME. This law within itself likely wouldn't break as many backs of Bar owners, yet if you take the sequence of events that have hurt bars, this is a nasty culmination, a last straw for many businesses. Just a cumulative batch of nasty probs in essence for bars..

The larger bar's have spent money and have renovated area's, The chain's are making due for now. The staunch law makes this a VERY costly open roof type exhaust renovation given the climates here..  Some of the smaller bar's have, and are closing due to this just being the culmination of numerous laws making things tougher for venues that rely on liquor sales in a state that is (according to some) noticeably discriminating against alcohol serving venues, as well as smokers now. According to some "smoking and drinking go hand-in-hand", SMoker's go to the bar, they feel compelled to light-up.  Extra hour in CT has been VERY tough for bar's to get  licensing on (cabaret <SP> License), and not lucrative for "juice bars" to attempt getting. DUI Laws are very strict and cops camp in the bar parking lot's wanting to play cat and mouse with drivers,  random spot checks are now permissible, and you MUST consent when stopped.  Given that and drinking age jumping from 18-21 ( which also hurt many venues WAY back), the economy in CT, no 2-fer's allowed anymore, and all sort's of licensing laws that are strict as hell. Especially tougher zoning law's descriminating against bars opening, and districts making licensing MUCH tougher, and more costly now than ever before, as well as insurance rates for bars, YEP.. Not a good business to run in CT now..  

It's tough for an owner to open within a circumscribed radius of a private OR public  school, religious institution, historic area, etc..  Thing's DO seem to be slowly heading back towards prohibition... Strict open container laws, etc.

VERY tough for bars, and unless a bar is right near a college dorm setting, (and even-so few college kids are of drinking age at most metriculated campuses) Given stings and setups.... I'd say in the last 15 years over 1/3rd of the bars have closed. Add all these "laws" up,  and it's no fun to go out for some... Suburban area small bars are hurting.. Yet so are most small businesses these days..Alot of business has shut down in CT during the last 15 (or however many) years of that so-called "L-shaped recession". Poor revenue for larger insurance industry too which was Hartford CT's largest generator. CT took a beating over-all..

In brief, this is the straw that is breaking the backs of a few bars that lasted thru a string of tough laws in the past. When looking at costs of renovating vs generated
revenue, little incentive to stay open for most smaller bars and restaurants. I don't go to bars much anymore, so I don't have all my facts straight..The amended indoor clean air act is VERY strict however... Within itself bar's could endure it, yet added up with other stuff, MANY small business owners are saying "What the Hell time to throw in the towel".

My own feeling is, CT is slowly reverting back to Prohibition type standards... It always retained three dry districts

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