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atxklown
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 Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:39 am |
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2005 10:07 pm
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Location: Austin, TX
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Lonman @ Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:17 am wrote: It looks to be a company that produces their own versions of the music, not copying other discs already available. Whether they got the actual licenses required to reproduce the music is debatable though.
They don't produce their own versions, it is completely burned from Soundchoice's monthly releases and the (SP) on the other songs are non SC (thm, sunfly, etc.)
Pro-burn in UK does have agreements with SC, Zoom, Essential Karaoke, etc. to copy them onto disc. But $1 per song on a questionable site compared to €4.50 per song on a legit site does have a big difference.
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Lonman
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Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2006 4:38 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm
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Location: Tacoma, WA
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atxklown @ Sun Jan 15, 2006 11:39 am wrote: They don't produce their own versions, it is completely burned from Soundchoice's monthly releases and the (SP) on the other songs are non SC (thm, sunfly, etc.) Pro-burn in UK does have agreements with SC, Zoom, Essential Karaoke, etc. to copy them onto disc. But $1 per song on a questionable site compared to €4.50 per song on a legit site does have a big difference. Then I would say that they aren't legal if they are just making copies. Pro-Burn is another story & do a very good job. _________________ LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!
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twansenne
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 11:41 am |
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Big Bopper @ Fri Jan 13, 2006 6:42 pm wrote: Dear kjchrisc
I'm afraid you're mistaken. Piracy is piracy. According to the copyright regulations that I've read and had interpreted by an entertainment attorney, if you are a professional, such as a KJ, your only right is to use the original disc. Making a "back-up" copy, or copying it to your hard drive, and then using it is still illegal. Companies like Sound Choice and Priddis have offered to replace disc's that have become unusable for the cost of shipping to encourage legit usage. CDG's do not fall under the category of software.
You and the attorney are wrong in your interpations of the copyringt laws in one aspect. Yes, making a back-up copy is illeagl. But converting from an old medium (CDG) to a new medium (computer MP3+G) in not illegal, as long as the old medium is owned by the person converting it to the new medium.
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knightshow
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:30 pm |
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Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2002 2:40 am
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NOT TRUE!
There is NO law that allows format shifting, and you're STILL creating a "back up". Other than the Fair Use Act, and that ONLY covers NON-COMMERCIAL applications.
In other words, it's perfectly fine for you to convert your media for use at HOME. What they say very clearly in the Fair Use Act is it's NOT allowed for commercial applications!
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twansenne
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:33 pm |
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So then tell me, how do/did radio stations convert to computer based music legally?
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twansenne
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:12 pm |
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The following is from http://www.ipjustice.org/karaokefairuse.shtml
Quote: These CDG owners have the lawful right to make backup copies of the CDGs they have purchased under copyright law's fair use doctrine, which permits copies for reasonable uses. CDG owners also need to transfer the contents of the CDGs to computer hard drives both for backup purposes, and in order to make the menu of their selections more accessible for the participants. In the case of mobile Karaoke hosts, storing the contents of the CDGs on a hard drive allows them to safeguard the original CDGs in the security of their home base, and it makes their selection much easier to carry to and set up at their engagements.
One of the determing factors in copyright violations is the $$$$$. Me converting my legally bought CDG collection to a computer will not make a loss in $$$$ for the copyright owner. When all elses fails follow the $$$$
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knightshow
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Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2006 4:13 pm |
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I don't know. I'm not in the radio business. That's NOT what this site is about.
I'm not in the studio recording business either. Nor am I a karaoke manufacturer.
I only know that law, because it's been thrown in my face ever since I ran off copies of my originals basically since my third year in the business following a disaster on a disc at that time that I couldn't replace. To me, it's always been about protecting my investment.
They tell me I can't do this either. I say "fine, then shut me down."
But just because I am making a stance like this doesn't mean it's LEGAL to do so. Right now, it's just a victimless crime. The manus still get their money from me like always. I just convert what I buy and use that conversion product.
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twansenne
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:48 am |
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1. Who threw it up in your face?
2. Making copies is illeagal, but as "Fair-Use" has been interpereted by other (lawyers/lawmakers) format shifting is not illegal. But it has to be tested in the corts, and has not yet. In court the copyright owner will have to prove a loss of $$$. If I buy the CDG, convert it to MP3+G, the copyright owner looses no $$$, simple as that.
And another point....If it is illegal to rip a cd/cdg then any company/person makeing a CD ripper could be sued under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA). Remember Napster?
Let's face it, the copyright laws about music are absurd, and are that way to "protect" the music industry. Back in the day, the movie industry tried to block sales of VCRs, thinking everyone was going to copy movies, and give em away. Now one of the top $$$ makers for the movie industry is vcr/dvd rentals. Do you think they (big business) will ever learn to give us, the consumer what we want?
Let's, agree to disagree, but as I said before, follow the $$$$. IF there is no loss in $$$, there is no case.
Regards,
Anthony
http://sskaraoke.com
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knightshow
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 8:21 am |
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http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/ak ... ssage/3875 for some really good info that Tig has compiled on ASCAP/BMI, some karaoke manus that are geting sued for not towin' the line, misc news...
The IPORG site is only a legal site that argues, but has never proven it's case. So far, I don't know of any lawsuits that have come against any single op for format shifting.
We actually agree on our stances for our personal companies... I just learned a while back that it's still not legal... maybe one of the major concerns with the manus is that they do NOT want to challenge such a stance in the courts because a judge could see our side of the issue. Going against illegal downloads, sure, I see that happening... but going after the folks that actually buy the music? As I said, it's a victimless crime.
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karyoker
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 9:41 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm
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Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA
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Using a computer for kj or dj does not constitute commercial use
Quote: • Purpose and Character: The purpose and character of the proposed use is likely non-commercial. That is, the owner of the Karaoke CDG, whether a professional who performs or hosts public shows or a private individual, is not trying to profit from copying and reselling the CDG. They are either backing up the content of the CDG, or simply moving the content from the CDG format to a Hard Drive format (for example) for ease and efficiency of use. This is exactly the type of copy contemplated for digital music in the AHRA. However, an argument could be made that the use is commercial, since the music contributes to the ability of karaoke DJs and nightclubs to profit. Even if ultimately found to be a primarily commercial use, this factor will not by itself be determinative in finding the overall use an infringement under US copyright law. For example, the US Supreme Court found the 2 Live Crew's use of a Roy Orbison song “Pretty Woman” to be a fair use even though the use was use for commercial purposes.
This is the supreme court decision referenced above...
While I find all kinds of stories of suing on the internet and forums I never see any conclusions I did find this which is fairly recent...
While I dont condone music piracy, it pales in comparison to what the developers and corporations are doing to their employess and this great nation of ours. And I will defend the honest and working class that built this country to start with against those that either try to buy or sue their competition out of business.. It happened with ma bell the power industry and the petroleum industry... And we can either standup and say no or roll over like a bunch of sheep ..... Again.....
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EElvis
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:36 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:01 am
Posts: 841
Location: New Orleans
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Just a thought,
If I installed a gas generator on my house, and bought gas then converted it to electrical power. Would I then Owe the gas company for the conversion Rights for converting one form of power to another. Am I doing something Illegal if I am doing this to save money. IE: it is cheaper to run the generator vs buying power from the power company.
I think Most of the people here are doing what they think is right. I have backups of everything I own. Not for running multiple instances of anything but for insurance.
Chill…….
Doc
I hope Eric Clapton doesnt see my picture......
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EElvis
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2006 12:32 pm |
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:01 am
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Location: New Orleans
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Sorry,
Just Venting. I Live in the Sue Capitol of the world. Pepple sue anyone for anything, anf the cost of everything is sky high because there are no limits, and the Lawyers will take almost any case that could make them money. Shame you cant sue for court costs in Frivilous lawsuits. They are so prevelant here I took My magnetic signs off my truck. I was afraid If I were in an accident I would get sued because They thought I was a big company with deep pockets. And yes,they are that bad here too.
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