Karaoke Forums

I started singing karaoke about a week before joining this site.  I've been  thinking about taking voice lessons.  Half the people I know are pretty additament about my not taking lessons and the other half thinks that that I could really get some pointers by taking lessons.  My questions is - as singers, how do the rest of you feel about taking voice lessons?
                                          Jackson

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Singing just for you

Depending on the instructor,  lessons are a good thing   That's about as definitive as I can be regarding such a topic. A great instructor is ALWAYS a valuable asset. What reason did people give for their being adamantly opposed to your taking lessons ?

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

It depends on what you intend to get out of it. Singing choral style is much different than singing popular rock, especially for woman. Woman use a lot of head voice to sing the types of songs you hear on the radio. Most voice coaches don't teach this.
I sang in a band in college and in college took a few voice lessons. The teacher had no clue how to teach me to sing in the style I needed for the band, but was some help for me when singing with the chorus. If you are having pitch issues - I would say yes to voice lessons other than that I can't think of how it would help. Remember my experience is with one teacher. You may be able to find someone really good who could help you with exactly what you are looking for. I think with most everything it is practice that counts the most.

Or ask for help here - What exactly are you wanting to improve in your voice?

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

My advice... record your voice singing... listen to it... if you don't like the way you sound... get vocal singing lessons... otherwise... keep doing what you do best!

-=> Jim! <=-

This is a decision which of course you will ultimately have to decide for yourself.  There are those people who have developed their own style and technique who are in the popular music industry, and they MAY have done that all on their own.  Having said that, there are definitely some technique things to be learned that could help protect the voice and get it in its best condition.  I have a feeling most of the popular music stars with great voices get some kind of coaching at one point or another, if only to help them preserve and maintain good vocal health and learn some new tricks...

I would suggest that if singing popular styles is your goal, than a coach would be better than a classical voice teacher. Yes, you will definitely learn much from a a classical teacher about the basics of singing (breathing technique, proper tone production, placement, diction..etc) which can translate over to other genres, but you will not be getting coached in the style you want to sing. Unless you are looking to be an opera singer, I think a vocal coach is the way to go. A great vocal coach will teach good healthy singing, but be able to apply it to popular styles and make it more useful to you.  Again, that's not to say that you won't learn something from a classical teacher.. (My training, for example is rooted in opera and some jazz).  It's just that you will have to do more outside study and work to learn new stylistic things to apply to the type of music you like to sing

So if you are serious about your popular singing, and want to make the most of your voice, yes.. getting a coach can only help you and make you a more healthy and dynamic singer...

Jazzy - very well said!  :hi5:

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[shadow=pink][glow=deepskyblue]. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I  posted a question on this same topic quite a while ago and got some very good advice (from Jazzy as well, I might add )
My 10 year old Daughter (Curlykate)had a huge interest in singing at a very early age.  I was very leary of voice lessons.  She has a unique style and I was so afraid that she would lose that if someone was telling her how to sing.  
We recently moved to the 'big city' and I did some research and found a teacher that told me that Kate has a voice that she just needs to learn how to get the best out of.  She told me that what she has taught her will not change her style but help her make it stronger.  She is learning all the things Jazzy mentioned- breathing, control etc.. she has excercises that she does to gain all of this and none of it effects her style she is just gaining more control over it.  It is interesting to listen to her earlier recordings to hear how she has grown and improved.  
I think vocal training can be a positive thing, as long as you do some research and find the one that works best with you and what you want to get out of it.  ( we went through one teacher before this one, but it just wasn't a good fit-this one is great, i can tell by the relationship they have and the improvement kate has made.)
I really hope our experience has helped you at least a little.  I am sure others will pipe in with some advice as well.  It really helped us when I posted about it.
Good Luck!!

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neverheardofher

Hi I am new to this Forum..joined today in fact. Funny the first post I see is about voice lessons. I am a voice teacher and have been for 20 years.  A degree in Performance Arts and minor in teaching.  I teach full time days and sing in a band  at night.  My husband and I also own a DJ/KJ business also and we do that 4 nights a week.  He's a musician too but we are in two seperate bands.

Anyhow...about voice training.....it works for everyone...period.   Yes there are different styles of teachers and different methods certanily.... but they all teach the basics of good posture, vocal strength, breathing, placement, vowels, tone etc etc.   A good teacher does not change a singers style but rather works with them on good technique to get the best performance out of them as possible.  Many teachers will NOT take students under 12....it is not recommended for various reasons and can actually do harm to a childs voice.  Some teachers are specially trained to work with the younger students....it is a specialized area of teaching so unless you find one that does that specialty...I would advise against it.

The voice does not fully mature until the mid 20's....meaning it is still growing and developing and changing in leaps in bounds.  The mid teens is a VERY good age to get involved in training and continue on if so desired.

Proper breathing technique is 80% of good singing and can take years to master correctly as well as good placement and tone.

Everyone benefits from training.....including the audience....    So if you are thinking about it......I say YES....jump in....enjoy it and have fun with it and sing from your soul!!!!!

Feel free to email me with any questions or help on anything!!

I am very thankful that Kate's (curlykate on SS) vocal teacher would take her (after she met with us and listen to Kate sing).
Katie was singing alot of songs that were actually going to eventually take its toll on her vocal chords.  We thought it was great that she could hit all those tough notes and belt out those tunes, little did we know that if she continued to do that her chords wouldn't hold up and she could do some serious damage that would cause years of voice trouble (i.e LeeAnn Rimes) So she advised Katie to concentrate on the breathing and tone and all the special excercises she was giving her until her voice was ready for more...in a few years.  We are very thankful.  
Katie is enjoying learning to control the powerful voice that God has blessed her with and she hopes to have a long life in music (and being a school teacher  :) )
I agree that lessons are a great idea and so glad that my fears were for nothing. It has been a very positive experience for us!  
Kudos to you as a voice teacher.  And I am glad you have expert advice from that stand point to add.  
Welcome to SS and I hope you enjoy the site.  I look forward to hearing your subs!

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neverheardofher

Hi all!

I took voice lessons for about six months back in 1998.  I had a really great teacher who let me sing pop and rock (songs that I usually sing at karaoke).  He also introduced some Broadway/showtunes to give me exposure to different types of music.  I moved from the area and bought a new house.  I didn't seek out a new teacher at that time though because of our financial obligations.  

I never regretted taking lessons.  Even though it was for a short time, I did learn some technigues that I apply today when I sing karaoke.  Recording and listening has really helped me, because I can hear my flaws and the things I need to work on.   I would love to have an instructor nearby, when I'm struggling with parts of a song.   Sometime I hope to get the lessons again.

Go for it. Get the lessons and if you are unhappy with the instructor, you can always seek out another.

Well, I haven't personally had lessons because I've always been afraid of someone trying to change my voice, or my style. I've actually (just like you) been recently trying to find the right vocal coach. I do know that to keep your voice healthy and fit (as Jazzy said) you will probably need a vocal instructor. I'm a big believer that a person can have raw talent and develop that talent all on there own, but learning the technical stuff like breathing and jaw placement and muscle relaxation... that's a bit harder. I know in the past few years I've had a couple scares with my vocal cords because of the fact that I haven't been singing right. You might be hitting those notes, but if you're not hitting them the right way, you could be doing a lot of damage. Before you go with any one coach, try and see what their lesson plans consist of (i.e vocal warm ups, do they follow a certain teaching style, etc.) Also, who are their references, who taught them, where did they go to school , etc. A good teacher can make a big difference, but a bad teacher can do a lot of harm.
--Amanda--

   You left out an important word,  "proper" training.. That might be obvious to most, however it's not always as easy to achieve as one might assume. Many given the title "teacher" have also ruined experiences that could've been rewarding for the student, not to mention actually done more harm than good in terms of their approach and technique for a given individual.





    This is exactly why I qualified my response with:



    Not all teacher's are "good", that's the problem. Unfortuneately some bring to lesson's their own bias. Hell, It's hard not to. You hear stories about instructor's attempting to remove "country twang" "change vibrato technique" attempt to turn what is actually a natural gift or knack into a processed stereotypical quality.. I started lesson's in music when I was three or four years of age... (don't recall, I was young at the time), studied various instrument's for the next 25 years, and taught several instrument's for years as well, VERY few of my instructor's were "Good teachers", If it weren't for my not being allowed to quit, I would've because of a few lousy experiences..

Although I'm not a vocalist, I at least realized that as an instructor I am limited... I don't enjoy *ALL* styles of music, nor am I compatible with all student's even in a genre of music I do love.. Finding a compatible, good teacher for you is a gift IF and when such a relationship transpires.  Instructor's must not only be perspicacious (sorry, word-a-day dictionary, had to get that one out) enough to know what approach to take with EACH individual student, but also be willing to introspect and set aside aspect's of ego, (personal preference isn't always what's best for another), and of course a good instructor knows what they don't know (honest with themselves, as well as their students).. Many times I found myself telling a student, "Congrat's, You've graduated from what I can teach you in your given area of interest", at such a time I'd give the name of a more qualified instructor that *I hope* will work -for the particular individual. I could've milked more lesson's out of these people, but it's not only dishonest, it's counterproductive for the student.. I hardly consider myself a "great" teacher, and lately because of personal stuff, I know enough not to try teaching..I wouldn't be into it, and THAT show's too.. Many learn material, many go to school, few have both the knowledge and the knack to qualify as "inspiring teachers".

Lastly, at many points in my life I found it best for me to take breaks from teaching others. It's amazing how many think, or say.. "You're good, why don't you teach?" to certain individuals without considering that talent and ability in a given artistic area does not automatically enable one to "teach".

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Personally, I feel that everyone can benefit from voice lessons, no matter how good or bad the singer is, or how experienced the teacher is, or whether you want to sing professionally or just for fun.

I took lessons for many years and they helped me a lot.  Even when I had teachers that were not very good, they helped me in some ways. Just having an objective person listen to you sing is a huge help, let alone the pointers they can give you from their own experience and knowledge.  You can learn about posture, breathing, putting out good tone, how to form vowels with your mouth, how to enunciate better, how to project your voice, and all about song literature, and lots more!!

My advice is that if you live near a college, and you are an adult, see if one of the music professors will take you on as a private student, or if you can take class voice lessons (at least to start).  They are usually the best teachers, IMHO.  

If you are under 18, see if your high school choir teacher knows someone who is good with working with people your age.  

Voice lessons don't have to be expensive.  Also, finding a teacher that really works for you can be as tough as finding, say, a good doctor, or a therapist that you like.  But once you do, it is like magic.

Good luck and let us know how it goes!!

PS having read some more...I agree with everything Cher said.  It doesn't matter what style you want to sing, voice lessons will help you with your singing.  Even if the teacher refuses to let you work on anything except classical music, the things you learn will still benefit you when you sing pop and rock music. I took lessons for many years, as I said. I stopped them when I left college in 89 and then I took them briefly again a few years ago.  The things I learned about breathing, opening my mouth, having a rounder sound, etc. have really helped me in karaoke.

As for having a "bad" teacher...I have had a lot of teachers of various experience, some of them very inexperienced who really had no idea how to teach. I don't know that there are many teachers out there that are telling people things that would ruin their voices.  Use your own best judgement.  When picking a teacher, find out what their credentials and experience are.  It's fine to ask those sorts of things.  Just because someone is a good singer themselves, does not necessarily mean they are good at teaching singing.  Find someone that has experience.  If you don't like them, you can always change later and find another teacher.  

The thing to do is to go into it with an open mind and really listen to what the teacher is telling you and do what they say, not argue or feel insulted.  A good teacher can be really hard on your ego at times.  You've got to be able to take criticism, both good and bad.  If you find the teacher is not helping you, find another teacher you like better.  Sometimes it's just a matter of communication between the teacher and student, not so much what they are saying but how it gets to you.
More on that in another message because this is getting really long.

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

I first took voice lessons in high school from a rather elderly lady who gave lessons out of her home. I know she was a singer and she had many students, but that's about it.  I had been singing for years in my school choir.  I did not know how to support the breath. I could sing very high, but mostly it was very breathy and out of tune.  My low notes were not very loud, either, without that proper breathing. All of my voice teachers tried to tell me how to use the breath, but it never really made sense to me, try as I might. It never connected inside my brain to where it worked.
Her main thing was having us really enunciate our consonants so that when we sang, the words were very understandable but also because it helps to project the sound.  To this day I have really good diction because of her. I took lessons with a friend, Shawne (we each had a half hour and shared the ride).  She could not match pitch when she started (meaning the teacher would play the note on the piano and Shawne could not sing that note).  It took a long while, but eventually Shawne could match pitch and even sort of carry a tune.  It also helped her with her posture, which was very bad, and helped her be more outgoing, which she really needed.  So sometimes it is not just about singing.  Eventually Shawne even had a big role in our high school musical (it was one of those half-talking, half-singing roles, but hey, still a huge improvement).

Then I went to college, and at my college, if you were one of the best at your instrument, you got a professor as your teacher.  If you weren't, you got a grad student who didn't know much. I got a grad student as my voice teacher.  She was a lovely singer but didn't know much about teaching.  I'm sure I sitll learned some stuff from her. I think I had two grad students while I was there.  They did try to teach me about breathing but it just didn't work.  They did teach me other stuff about singing and the song literature I'm sure.  Then later I had a couple of real professors as voice teachers (I changed schools a few times, long story), and they did help me a lot in various ways and I even performed in recitals.

However, my breath control was so bad that, when I got nervous, which was just about always when singing in public, I would totally lose what little breath control I had, and I would really blow it.  I sounded pretty bad, out of tune, breathy, yuk.

Then I finally found a great teacher, he had both singing and teaching experience.  He had sung opera all over the world.  He was the one who finally got through to me in figuring out how to support my breath.  The silly thing was, I knew how to do it all along, I just didn't know, until he told me, what it was. I thought that when I sang that particular way it was like shouting and would be bad for my voice.  Stupid me, right?  Unfortunately I had to move again but since I had that foothold and a lot of years of singing lessons, I was able to work more on my voice, using karaoke and recordings to improve.  Then I took lessons again a few years ago and it sort of reminded me of stuff I had learned in lessons, and I have been using those pointers when I sing (or trying). I am not perfect in breathing...I don't practice breathing exercises enough or really work on strengthening my voice and abdominal muscles the way I should.  That is my thing, though, I am lazy.  I need to get a new voice teacher, too!!

I hope no one minds my sharing my long story.  It has been quite a journey.  Singing is never anything that you just learn and then you stop growing.  Like everything else in life, you keep getting better at it.  It is a fun but hard-won journey sometimes.  I hope my story inspires someone to keep trying. I am 44 and still learning.

Good luck to all!!!

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

I concur with Jazzy.... with a little bit to add.

Like with anything else.. you need the proper "tools".  Anyone can go to a voice teacher or vocal coach .... and learn specific techiques, tricks of the trade... etc .... but ..... the singers that benefit the most are those that have the best "tools".  Your voice is an instrument.  As with any instrument .... keeping it healthy is the most important thing you can do.  The respiratory system and the vocal mechanism work hand and in hand .... and to be "truly good" at making them work as a "well tuned instrument" takes practice and knowledge.  There are many areas in the vocal mechanism that allow sound to be altered.  You have the larynx and vocal folds, the oral cavity (mouth, tongue, pharynx, palate, jaw) and the nasal cavity (nose).  You'll notice that "typically" .... your truly "gifted" singers have something "noticable" about one of those areas.  The nose may be 'big' ... the mouth wide ... the larynx/vocal folds very flexible, the jaw very pronounced ... etc.  These are the areas that modify the "sounds" given off by the instrument.  Learning specific skills to maximize the use of each of these areas can benefit any singer... but only those with the "best instruments" ... will be able to make the very most out of the techniques.  (Its like a guitarist ..... they can have their fingers on the correct strings to achieve a certain chord ... but ... if the guitar is not tuned correctly ... or is not top quality ... the chord will not sound the way the player wants... regardless of whether they are doing all things correctly.)  

I've even notice here... that some of the singers that are considered "talented" or "top notch" ... still may have areas that can use work.  Two areas that I hear many struggle with (for control) are vibrato and nasality.  When we have to hit notes that are out of our "comfort range" ...... many end up pushing those sounds out their noses.  They've hit the note ... but it has a "nasal" quality to it.  Others seem unable to keep vibrato in control (I struggle with this myself) ... or achieve any vibrato at all.  Again... these are those areas that a voice teacher or coach (depending on the type of musical genre you wish to improve) can provide help with.  

Then of course.. there is "projection" ...and much of this is controlled by the respiratory system.  Holding notes for a duration ... increasing and decreasing volume, completing a section of a song on one or two breaths, knowing when and how to breath  .... all depend on proper breathing techniques.  

Anyway...... ... it can't hurt anyone to learn how to "correctly" do anything .... and how to keep the voice healthy during singing and non-singing times .... but I guess the bottom line is you need to have the right "instrument".  Some of you were simply born with great voices.  You come by your  talent very naturally.  Some of us simply love to sing .... but just don't have the "top quality" instrument that others do.  I just think its really important to keep in mind that while going to a voice teacher or coach can't hurt ya .... you shouldn't think that a voice teacher will make an "average" singer... "good".  The person will still just be an "average" singer.... who does things well/right.  

So many times... average singers approach me and say ... I know my voice is pretty good and I was wondering if voice coaching would help.  I usually tell them that while it can certainly give them some very useful knowledge and might help them hit a few notes or do a few things vocally they've never been able to do .... it won't make them a "top shelf" singer.... unless they have the "best instruments".  

Its important to approach voice lessons and coaching realistically.  :D

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Years back I was having this discussion/debate with an old friend. He argued, "Give me my vintage Les Paul, Steinberger, or that Dan Electro convertible you hated and threw away in school and unless the guitar is absolutely horrible, as long as it's so-so, with half decent electronics, with just a little amp tweaking tops, *MY* tone is from my finger's...What you hear isn't a good guitar, you are hearing my technique, My tone is from my fingers, I don't need a "good guitar", just a passable guitar. I don't need a top quality instrument, or any of this signature stuff.

I agree Cindy that the guitar must be in tune, and intonated properly. I also agree that a better quality instrument makes a significant difference in either the acoustic players, and electric players sound quality alike.. but since the person I was arguing this with said I can quote him on this, I will...  "Leslie West doesn't agree with the part of your statement that attributes end result being commensurate with quality of instrument"  Cindy  LOL    He's of the "Tone is in the fingers" school.... Instrument just needs to be adequate...He insisted (sober) that what *I* hear aren't the DiMarzio pickups sound, or the wood of the guitar he's using, Sure those are the tool
s he's using, but he could do the same with even lesser grade tool's, and has without anyone knowing.... He told me I'm hearing Leslie West technique, and tone... I just listened,  didn't feel like arguing .  I won't tell you his response regarding a question I had pertaining to establishing of pivot points for finger vibratos in relationship to finger used, and neck positioning   He had a tendency to be a wise-ass  :(

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".

Shotgun CC and Suzanne,
I am so glad you made your way over here.  I was hoping to see you 2 on this discussion.
Thanks for your addition.  Your both always helpful and it is appreciated.

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neverheardofher

Here's my two cents on the topic. Although I have been singing for 15years, I never really understood the technical concepts of sings, especially the breathing part. The explanations, good and bad, of how to breath varied from person to person and I never was able to grasp the concept. So, I decided to take one voice lesson to see if it would help. Well, within the first 10 minutes of my first voice lesson my instructor was able to clearly explain the breathing thing that has alluded me for so years. So, in my case it was definitely worth it. Needless to say I have signed up for more lessons. I found my instructor in KS news paper/magazine. If you read KS you probably have seen her collum. Her name is Jill Jaxx and she is just amazing. Check out her web site theres a lot of info to be had.   http://www.jilljaxxentertainment.com/

.... I may have made a poor analogy, steven.  I know what your friend is saying.  YES... style of play is definately "individual"... and a truly gifted guitarist can probably sound pretty darn good on any guitar... but I'd still wager that he sounds BEST when the instrument is of better quality.  I have been playing the flute since I was 9 years old.  I started on a old "school supplied" flute and played it for years.  When I began to show "promise" as my music teacher stated ... he called my parents and encouraged them to buy me a flute of better "quality".  He felt strongly that I needed a better instrument ... to compete in ALL STATE events.... which he was determined I would do.  So.... my parents did some pricing.. and bought me a flute that was n the mid-priced range.  I and my music teacher immediately noticed the difference.  Welllll... when I hit HS .. I was very good (not trying to brag... but I was).  Guess what... the music teacher called my parents.. and told them that I should be playing with a top shelf instrument.. because he felt that with the better instrument.. I had a shot at first chair ALL NYS Symphonic Band.  It was every music teacher's dream to have a student even make that band. So... my parents decided that they'd take the plunge.. and bought what at the time.. was the BEST.
I gotta tell ya...... when I played my first note on that instrument.. I was SHOCKED.  I'd NEVER made such a beautiful sound in my life.  So ya see.. I had the skills....I had the techniques down... I could make all the runs.... and modify the apperature as necessary.  I even had a "style" all my own.  People knew it was me when they heard but couldn't see who was playing.   I knew how to "play" ... but the quality of the instrument made a huge difference in what I was able to produce sound quality wise.  And yes.. I WAS selected 1st chair All NYS that year!  Quite an honor... for sure. MANY encouraged me to major in music in college... but for me, music was an "outlet" .. a form of fun and recreation.  I didn't want to make a career out of it.   I played thru college tho ... and then just jammed from time to time after that... but recently ... I haven't touched it.  Gotta tho ... I really miss playing.  

So.... perhaps what your friend was saying is .... talent is talent.. and can sound good regardless.... but I bet he sounds BEST on the BEST insturment available.  Perhaps I am wrong... but I'd wager that I'm not.  

Hugz. CCindy

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I think flute construction is a bit different than certain styles on guitar Cindy. I have a Gemeinhardt M2, as well as the Gemeinhardt 3S (I think) solid sterling, and *I* think either because of the construction of the 3S, and/or the metal, the 3S is a warmer sounding flute... I get a kick out've the "open hole vs closed hole" debates...Not sure how open hole can really sound that much better than a closed hole with properly seated pads, fresh pads, and a good working key mechanism...Personally I'm inclined to agree with you regarding instrument quality making a difference, yet he's claiming as long as it's a decent instrument to begin with, whether it's a $200 Ibanez, or a $2500 Gibson,  his technique and finger's can(with some amp compensation) produce the tone.. The listener won't be able to tell if he's playing the $200 or $2500 guitar...  Personally I think it involves some stunt playing...,  yet I didn't argue....thing is, there are some very good 200 dollar guitars.  I think Doc Severinsen made similar claims with trumpet's... That barring certain styles, whether you give him a student brand Bundy or Conn (In very good working order) or a Selmer Chorus, or Yamaha YTR Xeno brand horn, if the listener isn't looking at the horn,  he can make them both sound equally as good by working with the tonal characteristics of the particular instruments timbre...Even playing the Bundy without the mouthpiece.... ..  His embouchure must be dang good (which of course it is).... Thing is Cindy, the way I look at it, is it has ALOT to do with style of music... I wouldn't think a classical horn player would want the harsher qualities of the cheaper horn...  A jazz horn player can work with that, and integrate it...Herb Alpert IMHO sounds better with a less mellow horn, more of a course sound... So alot of this depends on style....Also duration of play.. A decent musician is still going to have to fight the instrument harder to compensate for certain features it's lacking (assuming it is lacking features).. So my question would be,  "How long would you be able to fight that instrument to compensate for what it isn't, in order to bluff the listener" I would assume.  Of course Benny Goodman was able to make a metal clarinet sound excellent too... Flute though Cindy,  I agree that the quality of the instrument assuming both instruments are in excellent working order, still makes a huge difference in the resonance, and tonal characteristics....MUCH more so than an electric guitar.... or comparing a decent $250 Yamaha acoustic (that happens to be a good particular instrument) with a Taylor or Martin Acoustic...  Yet some people don't believe Nickel or Silver even matter in the flutes tone.......I certainly can tell a difference in the warmth  and vibration of a Yamaha, or Gemeinhardt higher end instrument.. Yet I have heard fabulous sounding $200 guitars...


Now you've got me over on Ebay glancing at Piccolo's , God only know's why, but I've always wanted to own one of those little things...  (probably for no other reason than my flute case has a compartment for one), and I'm a pack rat.

As a matter of fact that's incorrect,  It's the sax case that has a compartment for a flute..... Anyway,  Still going to look at Piccolo's

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Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".