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Lonman
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:08 am |
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Joined: Mon Dec 10, 2001 3:57 pm Posts: 22978 Songs: 35 Images: 3 Location: Tacoma, WA Been Liked: 2126 times
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Steven Kaplan @ Thu Jan 05, 2006 9:46 am wrote: That's a good article Lonman, I was over at Rane, reading about power amp clipping, and how/why it effects speakers. This article get's into it too. I don't follow things such as harmonic distortion and massive wave clipping or aspect's of audio physics.. So I'm trying to figure this stuff out.. http://www.rane.com/note128.html
Think of it this way - in terms of headroom. You are the speaker. You are in a low ceiling room (low powered amp). You are sitting comfortably (normal volume) but now you stand up (volume increase) & hit your head (clipping ie distortion) OUCH (blown speaker).
Take your same self in a high ceiling room (power amp higher than rated power), you are sitting comfortably but now stand up (volume increase), you don't hit your head & can still stretch your arms to boot - headroom!
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:17 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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That's interesting, thanks ! It's strange that so many of us have been using amp's and speaker's most of our lives, yet really know very little about the technical aspect's, how they work together, or DON'T work together... Speaker efficiency was also a phrase (I'd only heard) prior to this week when I started reading about it. I had no idea how important this stuff is to know about..
Thanks
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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karyoker
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:22 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm Posts: 6784 Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA Been Liked: 5 times
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Quote: Think of it this way - in terms of headroom. You are the speaker. You are in a low ceiling room (low powered amp). You are sitting comfortably (normal volume) but now you stand up (volume increase) & hit your head (clipping ie distortion) OUCH (blown speaker).
Take your same self in a high ceiling room (power amp higher than rated power), you are sitting comfortably but now stand up (volume increase), you don't hit your head & can still stretch your arms to boot - headroom!
Best post of the day!!!And makes more sense than anything....I'm gonna start wearing my hard hat to gigs LOL
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:29 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Clipping means the Sine wave is just clipped, causing a harsh distortion ? Depending on the degree of clipping it's a common distortion ? Hey Karyoker, why do some of us folks like tube amp distortion ? How is that smoother than tranny which is harsh in comparison ?
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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EElvis
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 10:59 am |
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2003 9:01 am Posts: 841 Location: New Orleans Been Liked: 0 time
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Quote: It's true an underpowered amp won't blow a speaker, however a small amp will tend to be pushed to higher gain levels & go into clipping faster & the distortion CAN blow the speaker. A 10 watt amp can kill a 1000 watt speaker - distortion is distortion no matter what wattages & distortion WILL kill a speaker.
Thats what I meant, if a speaker is killed, it might as well be blown, you aren't going to be able to use it again to produce decent music. I guess I just like to keep replies down to 50 words or less. As usual, [glow=red]Loneman[/glow], great article.
_________________ ______________________________________
I'm Not Dead yet...... But every day Im getting Closer !
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karyoker
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:00 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm Posts: 6784 Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA Been Liked: 5 times
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Quote: That's a good article Lonman, I was over at Rane, reading about power amp clipping, and how/why it effects speakers. This article get's into it too. I don't follow things such as harmonic distortion and massive wave clipping or aspect's of audio physics.. So I'm trying to figure this stuff out.. http://www.rane.com/note128.html
As someone who used a square wave to tune the klystron (hi freq amps) chain in 3 megawatt radars this clown doesnt have a clue what causes clipping or what harmonics are..There is nothing complicated about either one.. Clipping occurs when the amplified peak ac component on the plate (tube) or collecter exceeds the dc voltage of the power supply - the voltage drop across the plate or collector resistor...Since the linear portion of most amps is -3db on the low and high side in the over all gain structure they shlould be run well into this region . Whether recording or setting gains I like to run -6db on the sliders and even mains out.. The rapid transition from flat or dc to ac produces a high frequency component A scope probe or any amp can be tuned with a square wave by monitoring the ouput and tuning for no roll off on the leading or trailing edge of the square It is essentially grtting the broadest bandwidth from input to out..
Steve the old tuber has tungsten elements grid, accelerator and suppressor that vibrate resonantly with certain frequencys of the audio component. Then these added freqs produce even harmonics which interleave with the originals and produce a vibrato and richness that cant be duplicated digitally...
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:15 am |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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Thank's Karyoker. I understood part of the explanation . I guess that's why some of you are tech's, and I just try to visualize what's happening
Quote: Clipping occurs when the amplified peak ac component on the plate (tube) or collecter exceeds the dc voltage of the power supply - the voltage drop across the plate or collector resistor...Since the linear portion of most amps is -3db on the low and high side in the over all gain structure they shlould be run well into this region . Whether recording or setting gains I like to run -6db on the sliders and even mains out.. The rapid transition from flat or dc to ac produces a high frequency component A scope probe or any amp can be tuned with a square wave by monitoring the ouput and tuning for no roll off on the leading or trailing edge of the square It is essentially grtting the broadest bandwidth from input to out..
Would you hate me in the morning, if I told you I'm too much of a bimbo to have a clue as to what the above paragraph means ?
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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karyoker
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 11:43 am |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm Posts: 6784 Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA Been Liked: 5 times
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Quote: Would you hate me in the morning, if I told you I'm too much of a bimbo to have a clue as to what the above paragraph means ? Very Happy
I dont think I undrstand it any more either LOL
They have over complicated it too much for this old simple mind...
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:01 pm |
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Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2005 6:48 pm Posts: 13645 Been Liked: 11 times
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I printed it out, and I'm going to have it put on the back of a T shirt.. That way 2006 I'll get lucky !
In not to long a time Karyoker, I'll be able to go to the community college's free.. At that time, I'll take an electronic's course, yet I doubt any of it will sink in. I just don't have an aptitude for some of that stuff... Like the fundamental and quantitative aspect's of chemistry, you just have to know them long enough to pass the damn course.
_________________ Northeast United States runner up for the "Singing Hall of Shame".
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TopherM
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:10 pm |
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Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2004 10:09 am Posts: 3341 Location: Tampa Bay, FL Been Liked: 445 times
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Quote: Clipping occurs when the amplified peak ac component on the plate (tube) or collecter exceeds the dc voltage of the power supply - the voltage drop across the plate or collector resistor...Since the linear portion of most amps is -3db on the low and high side in the over all gain structure they shlould be run well into this region . Whether recording or setting gains I like to run -6db on the sliders and even mains out.. The rapid transition from flat or dc to ac produces a high frequency component A scope probe or any amp can be tuned with a square wave by monitoring the ouput and tuning for no roll off on the leading or trailing edge of the square It is essentially grtting the broadest bandwidth from input to out..
I think the great sound engineer Beavis said it best in his layman's explination to Butthead:
"The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the beat."
That's all you really need to know!!
_________________ C Mc
KJ, FL
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karyoker
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Posted: Thu Jan 05, 2006 12:38 pm |
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Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2004 3:43 pm Posts: 6784 Location: Fort Collins Colorado USA Been Liked: 5 times
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Quote: I think the great sound engineer Beavis said it best in his layman's explination to Butthead:
"The angle of the dangle is inversely proportional to the heat of the beat."
And directly proportional to the dosage of viagra....
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