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Absolutely not, here we light up both the Christmas Tree and the Manorrah and recognize and encourage other religious traditions.  That is the freedom, not calling things holiday trees and candles.  What ticks me off are bureaucrats who want to try to change things because they think someone might be offended, which is not the case.

As for the existence of God and Jesus, well faith is belief, but then again so is evolution as no complete proof exist.  Jesus did exist and there are enough documents outside the Bible to prove it.  Was He the Saviour, well that's where the belief part comes in.  But remember at the time he was a small "radical" with a small following, yet almost 2,000 years later He has a great impact.  One can get into a very long discussion on this but I won't here or at least not try to.

The God that Suzanne is trying to portray or what her belief He should be is a fairy tale that a lot of people erroneous think He should be.  He does not micromanage so everyone loves Him.  If He did then we would all be robots.  Free will is a gift and a curse, depending how one uses it.  Why does God allow evil or disasters?  Again in the case of evil it's free will as for disaster, well disaster do tend to bring people closer together.   The other thing I hear is why does God allow children to die?  Would you want a Heaven where children do not exist.


Churches are imperfect.  Why?  Because man (and woman) are involved and as we are not perfect there will be problems with them.  Anyone who doesn't go to church, if they believe (there's that free will again) because they think they are not worthy or some other nonsense are deluding themselves.  The churches are filled with ordinary people who have a host of problems (who doesn't), from those who think they are holier-than-thou (they're usually laughed at) to alcoholics, addicts of various types, people struggling in marriage or at work, etc.  What a good church does is to worship and bring these diverse people hopefully closer to God and do some good for their communities and fellow man.  Most religions by the way do this.  Have a disaster, who are usually among the first to help, churches, mosques, and synagogues.

One last thought, where in the Bible does it say life is supposed to be easy.  Virtually all stories on the Bible are about man's struggle.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Tim, I have no trouble with anyone celebrating their religious traditions.  You don't seem to understand this.

The point is that those of us who don't believe, or who believe DIFFERENTLY than you, shouldn't have to have our tax dollars or state buildings decorated with Christian or other religious symbols.  That's what separation of church and state is about.  I know you are not a U.S. citizen, but that is part of the fundamental rights of our country.

Why is it not enough for you to celebrate it everywhere else, why do you have to have it in city, state and federal buildings as well?  Why do you have to force others to put up with your religious beliefs?  Why don't you see that to some people, seeing Jesus outside of the church or private homes makes them offended and feel unwelcome and not included? Or do you just not care about anyone else's feelings or opinions (never mind, by what you said, I know the answer already).

You really boggle my mind.  So once again the world and God must work the way Tim thinks it should.  Children should suffer and die so that Tim can see them in heaven.  Christians should go to church because Tim says so.  Life should be hard because Tim says it is.

I'm not saying that the world or people should be perfect, but it seems that God should be, and that there should be some sort of evidence that he exists.  

The bible was written at a time when the world was really awful and hard...much worse than now.  That doesn't mean that we shouldn't try to make the world better or easy.

I'm more of a humanist. I believe in the goodness and worth of people. Even though they often are stupid, lazy, or let you down, I think almost everyone has some good in them and that it's the goodness and intelligence of humanity that we should nourish and encourage, not the superstition and ignorance.

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

So why are you so scared of Christmas that it offends you.  But yet you say you have a tree and gifts and everything else that pertains to Christmas except the most important thing, faith.

Life was more difficult in the times of the Bible?  Where did you get that?  Back then, with the exception of natural disaster and disease, mass death had to be basically one on one, no one bomb and hundreds killed.  We may live in more comfortable houses, have more conveniences, but we also have more ways to kill each other and ourselves.  Bt one thing I will say about times past is that family was more important then as survival depended on it.

As for you not liking your tax dollars being spent on Christmas, well I'm sure everyone here would say that they don't want their tax dollars paying for the military, welfare, international aid, politicians, or any number of things the government spends money on.

You say there is a separation of state and church in your country.  Are you that naive?  "In God We Trust", "One Nation Under God", swearing oaths on the Bible.

You say God isn't perfect.  He is but not in your eyes.  Why?  Because he allows man to run rampant, disease or natural disasters?  Let's look at disease and natural disasters.  They are very bad,  but, and this is the big but, look how strangers help each other when these things occur.

Life is hard because God said it will be hard due to man's disobedience.

I can think of a lot more things to be offended by other than Christmas, Chanuka, Ramadam, or Kwanza.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I want to post my DeAr sAntA letter here



but I can't  <pout>

But Steve we want you to post your Santa letter.

Speaking of Santa, did you know that since the inception of NORAD, that on the evening of 24-25 December, they have always detected an object on their detection systems that look like a sleigh being hauled by reindeer and diven by a white bearded man in a red suit.  If it's good enough for NORAD, it's good enough for me.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Susan,

you're not following the concept that this country was FOUNDED on religious beliefs. Don't believe it, check out the original constitution and the bill of rights. If that doesn't follow the same basic tenants that God handed to Moses to hand to his people, I don't know what is.

Not saying it has to be a part of it, but if you don't like it, look away. I know I do that every time I drive through a certain section of town... because they have that right to live the way they want to.

The concept of "Separation of Church & State" starts with the 1st Ammendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" had always meant that Congress was prohibited from establishing a national religious denomination, that Congress could not require that all Americans become Catholics, Anglicans, or members of any other denomination.

What it doesn't mean is that the very foundations that established our escape from tyranny meant that we are supposed to fall back under PUBLIC tyranny.

That's the problem with freedom of speech. For some reason, some folks think that means you have to ACT on that freedom... that it actually means it's important enough to act on it.

Our freedoms mean that one person can yell at the top of their lungs that which you would spend a LIFETIME standing against their viewpoint. AND NEITHER one is right or wrong.

When special groups get their underwear twisted in a bunch over something so dumb and the powers that be crave under such pressure, then we're no longer living in the "land of the free and the home of the brave". What we're living under is reactionary pressure. And he who screams the loudest or gets the most public pressure seems to win...

I'd get my butt thrown out of here if I posted the "Little Johny" letter, Tim..
I wish I could.










Well, that's because Santa Clause does exist !   The people that don't believe in Santa happen to all live in multidwelling complexes, and either don't have chimney's in their condominium/timeshare/Apartment, etc or what's even worse are the attitudes of association Boards these days ! Along with the "Shivia act" around 1996 (pertaining to the placing of FCC devices on "common property"), certain local zoning ordinances also have a Santa "clause" written in forbidding landing's and takeoff's of non-motor powered forms of transportation in their By-Laws. Often a condo's Board of Director's like's to piss on other's parade too,  It's not uncommon for association boards to send copies of their By-Laws to the N. Pole.  Santa doesn't want to do anything that will result in a unit owner getting fined for By-Law infractions, he's cool like that.


Problem really started as far back as the 1970's.   During that time "No fly zones" started becoming more strictly enforced, and the FAA began restricting altitude over certain zones even more-so than prior years... In Delaware around 1972 in fact, one of the raindeer got it's muzzle stuck in a Pratt and Whitney DC-9 engine; Between that, and the event that culminated in the death of a drunken guy piloting an ultralight around Miami Beach (needless to say ultralights shouldn't be taken out after 12:00AM anyway),  Santa still got blamed, and was deposed back to Dade County. This event resulted in Santa having to head back to Miami during hot and humid daylight hours, (Between the 90+ temps of miami, and the sub-freezing temps of his natural habitat in the North Pole, Santa ended up BiPolar). Since that event (and also having to fly over Bridgeport CT, and Hoboken NJ during daylight hours) his major situational depression set in too. Santa lost some of his zeal, refused to take his psychotropic meds, and the local shrink he was seeing in Palmer Alaska was even sicker than he was. That exacerbated things :(  I think the final straw was that the widow of the deceased (drunk ultralight pilot) had a really good Jewish Lawyer from Boca Raton. He made a few points about whether Santa was really suited to do what he's been doing over the past many many years.. The courts clamped down, and brought up Santa's declining night vision; Forced to see an Opthamologist, it turned out Santa's spatial relationship problems were likely the result of a cataract that started forming on his right eye. His hypertension was also starting to result in pressure on his optic nerve, and because Gloucoma might be present, Santa had to appeal the courts decision to restrict his international flying license with a Civil Disabilities Attorney.     This all naturally took it's toll on the guy (who was no longer a "Spring Chicken" by any means).


Santa started becoming even more despondent because it was becoming evident to him that people just don't think as much these days, or care as much about him. Mrs. Clause was going through menopause and laying guilt trips on him for never being home... Obviously given the sparse number of people with chimney's these days, and people forgetting to open their flue Christmas eve, not to mention new laws, and safety issues that didn't exist in the 1960's, mandatory insurance he must carry all year on his vehicle (with considerably increased  premiums) because of accidents, and two FUI violations;  Kid's owning guns these days and taking pot shot's at the reindeer, or shining radio-shack lasers into their eyes upset him the most. Santa just didn't feel as wanted anymore; While he's still quite efficient for his age and his somewhat restricted condition, he's become more selective.

He doesn't need the gig that much anyway these days, It was a voluntary thing for him because he liked kids.  As some of the kid's grew, he just got another local gig nights, something closer to home.

He now hangs out with the baby-boomers that follow Burton Cummings around.  Santa's the sound man for "The Guess Who" now. I don't recall the exact details, yet around 1997 he flew over to Europe with a few pair of size 62 denim jeans, and returned with a REALLY high-end Allen & Heath mixer. It was an even trade !  (I think the mixer was a demo, but still he made out quite well IMHO); He's pretty happy with his current gig, and although he takes a few weeks in December off for his traditional voluntary work (without even taken it as a tax deduction), he's more restricted these days. He might not do Christmas at all shortly down the road



Can you blame him ?   "No Time"

There are three Santa stages


   You believe in Santa
   You dont believe in Santa
   You are Santa

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I live in an apartment but I solved the Santa dilemma, I sent him a key.

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If you can't have fun...why bother?

Please people, no more IM's asking whether or not my Santa story is fact or fiction !   Over the course of the last two hours alone, I've read each and every one of your 896,046 Instant messages, and can't handle reading many more.  The answer is that was 100% factual.  I swear !

Somebody was kind enough to refresh my memory.  The Delaware incident didn't involve a DC-9.  The plane was in fact an Eastern Airlines 727 jet..  Sorry about screwing up the facts.  Santa was heading South, and the jet north, en route to Newark airport. A few eye-witnesses saw the engine fire from the ground !

Prior to this event, noone had ever even heard of Delaware. Even Southerner's down in New Jersey, PA, and Maryland didn't know where it was. 1972 things changed drastically !

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Melly,  I'm going to post the holiday advice regarding why it's crucial to ALWAYS exercise caution when buying on Ebay ! Especially when making family member purchases, and even just buying yourself a holiday gift !  People just don't think, and consequently end up with hassles that could've been avoided.

Since I'll likely never have children, certain precautions aren't anything that I'm overly concerned about. I worry about more realistic things that hit closer to home shorter term, such as if I ever do breed, will the offspring have 5 or 6 claw's per pad ? I'd hope all in the litter are healthy ! To worry about buying the children gifts at this point would be premature.

On a more serious note (and naturally I don't want to start any rumor's but) I heard that when you purchase your child on Ebay, the Uniform Code Council recently enforced that a UPC number must always be present on the kid's barcode. Now I'm not positive about this, so please don't quote me !

OK, I know I'm being goofy, so I'll get to the point. Ordering another person on Ebay is never a good idea. Certain things just aren't meant for mail order. It's always a good idea to see what you're getting first. There are several reason's for this of course (their age has little to do with it) assuming it's even an adult you'd like to meet; I'll give you a few hypothetical examples as to why it's best to pick up your date in person !! One example of course is that UPS shipping is often horrid, you never know if the holes in your lovers' transport box, and orange rinds will actually be enough to keep them comfortable and well hydrated in the heart of the summer months, and what's even worse is that the one time I was in fact hoping to have a social life, not only was my prospective wife a "knockoff" of the real person, but right next to the valve, there was no psi marking. Now I realize what some of you are likely thinking at this point; "Isn't Kappy being awfully picky and perfectionistic?" (remember this is hypothetical) Well, I'm willing to own up to the fact that it might be my own fault for not scrutinizing the description and photo's well enough on the sellers page before bidding on that particular Dutch auction, but after introspecting, I wanted a girl from the Netherlands, and how could I have suspected I wasn't getting the real thing ? The feedback profile looked quite good to be honest. Assuming I did compromise, I still would have had no way of knowing what pressure to inflate her to. Needless to say, such a beginning almost always insures you that shortly down the road there will be irreconcilable differences between you, and your mate !
I returned the item, but I still left a neutral feedback. What really eat's me up is that on the 89th day (of the allowable 90 day period to leave feedback on the transaction) the seller neg'd me.  Had I not been communicative I can understand this, however I Emailed this particular person at least 4X per day, and even tried to contact them via phone at all hours of the morning ! (They had to have been home, I tried every 1/2 hour). These particular seller's just didn't seem to want to work with me. It's very difficult to know whether a seller likes people or not. These people obviously did not !

So in a nutshell, this really makes me think twice about some of the people that sell on Ebay. Have they no shame ?

kappy, there is nooooooo one in this world like you.....thank you god.....

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Kappy Krazy  LMAO  LMAO

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

I see there have been some really interesting comments made here but I'm at work and don't have time to read them all until tonight.....but I did want to make a correction to one of my comments.   I posted that I didn't like to use the word X-Mas.  Well, I've come across something that might be of interest to the ones that this hit home with because it was definitely interesting to me.

According to Wikipedia.....the abbreviation "Xmas" is derived from the word XPIETOE (Can't use the Greek symbols) transliterated as "Christos", which is Greek for "Christ". Greek is the langage in which the whole New Testament was written.

You can read more on this if you are interested at wikipedia.com.  

Just goes to show that everything we have been taught may not be necessarily true.  So I don't think I will cringe anymore when I see this used.

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I'm slow getting here.... I just found this post!  In my searches, I came across an intriguing comment on a website that sounds a lot like what I've been hearing here on this forum:

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The celebration of Christ’s birth rather than the significance of it has become of paramount importance. In many cases, even the mention of Christ has practically disappeared from the traditional Christmas. “[Christmas] is a world festival, of a family nature, and everyone celebrates what he or she sees in it,” .... While Christmas celebrations become ever more extravagant, knowledge of Christ diminishes. In essence, Christmas festivities have largely reverted to what they originally were in Roman times—revelry, feasting, and the exchanging of presents.
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http://www.watchtower.org/library/w/200 ... cle_02.htm

In a link to a related topic, there's a whole page on the traditions and their historic origins.  So much food for thought!

Xmas  :hi5: I'm doing the happy dance!

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[updown]~*~ MONKEY BUSINESS KARAOKE~*~ [/shadow][/updown][/glow]

 LMAO   Now you don't have to feel bad!    LMAO  LMAO
I thought of you when I read that and knew I had to let you know!

Merry Christmas!!!!!

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!