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The last few weeks I have been setting up in different venues both small a large..A couple of them I had to setup with everybody there already, which I used to hate...I have developed a system which might help others and invite comments or other setup tecniques... I dont use the eq on the main sound...

 First thing is turn off all efx both software and hardware...Turn off the Aphex 104...I then play something like Hank Snow AmI losing You It has a full range of harmonics from a little bass to strings.. Then adj the bass and treble on the Bbe362 and tour the listening area..  Then something like Gimme all your lovin ZZ Top and see how the bass distributes from side to side and to the back of the hall and further adjust the bass on the 362...  Then turn on the 104 adjust the bass overhang for best at the back....And mix for overall bass... The aural exciter I usually run tune at 11 and mix at 1. (these adjustments on the 104 dont seem to vary that much from venue to venue)...Then turn on the efx.....

This works fairly well but would like to hear some other tricks of the trade or comments......

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Are you running subwoofers?

I want a powered sub so bad I can taste it Maybe with all these parties after the first I'll be able to afford one....The one I want runs about $700  The Jbl jrx100... Or something similar.... And I aint gonna sell my mule either ... Well maybe Keith we could work out a trade

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I gave a new pair of Peavey Impulse 500 powered subs to my cousin in Oklahoma last year.....He used to post here as DrDeath or whatever.....

I dunno, man....I prefer passive subs over powered ones, but that's just me.

Speaking of mules, I gotta go fetch my new Appaloossa gelding tomorrow. I haven't seen him yet, but it sounds like he is sold. I'll know by noon after I trot him around a little and look at his legs and teeth. I love paints and especially Appaloossa horses....All the rest are kinda boring. This one is an intended gift for my best buddy....He's going with me but doesn't know the horse is for him, so you guys keep it secret, ok?

Anyway, getting back to your system soundcheck stuff....As you don't currently run subs, I sure hope you have some method of filtering sub-freqs from the mains....especially with the Aphex and BBE on them.

Do you use any type of low cut filters anywhere in the stack?..And does your mixer have mic low cuts?

And while we are on the subject, why do you run both the Aphex and BBE at the same time? Is one on vocals and the other music? Or are they in series on the whole mix?...Just courious.

Most people claiming to be KJ's are just a bunch of yahoo's with a $150.00 sound system and pirate CD's and have no (@$%&#!) idea as to what you are talking about.

I set all EQ (mid, treble & bass) flat on the mixer, no external EQ and play a CD of my choice. Then I will put in a little bit of EQ if needed. We added 2 JBL Eon Powered Sub's to our EON15 G2 Powered Speakers, with the Maximizer doing the active filtering and the sound is great. Subs are the way to go, and with a full range speaker system, not much of EQ'ing is needed.

The Aphex is usually the last proc in the sound chain just before the main amps such as this system This was a few years ago and he mentions the 102 in the 4th paragraph down..  The 104 has the big bottom and gives a big bass sound without driving the bass speakers more . I just bought it for the bass but have since learned to adjust the exciter and bring vocals out of the mud... I did put a 204 on another system and other than another adj in the exciter I really cant tell any difference..

I drive the Aphex with the 362 and they work very well together.. You are providing the Aphex with a cleaner sound and it can process it better and it is easier to tune...  I can take old mp3's like Patsy Cline when they didnt have all the efx and with efx   and the procs make her sound like she is live on the stage..And I'm bsing one iota..

Iv'e worked with audio for over 40 years in one way or another whether it was pa or broadcast tv and fm and am... I can assure you I am not one of those Yahoos that think I know... I know....


 Yea a mixer without low cut pop filters in the mic preamps would be useless...

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I'm losing control of my system  :shock:  

Allstar I sent you a PM if you have any suggestions I would greatly appreciate it

I'm currently using:

2 JBL eon G2's, Mackie DFX mixer, BBE 882

Since using the BBE the quality of my sound has decreased and it seems that I've had to increase the volume levels on my mixer due to lack of output. Just last night one speaker started popping due to increased bass and there was distortion and cracking when some singers increased their volume. I'm sure its because I'm not setting the levels properly or have the BBE tied into the chain incorrectly. I've been adding additional bass trying to compensate for the lack of a sub. Does anyone have any suggestions on what I should do? I'm willing to add anything to improve the sound sub, efx processor (external), new mics...     The venue I play in is large if this helps. I was going to purchase the JBL powered sub.  Thanks for your help. Bob

If you are requiring more bass than you are currently getting (satisfactorily) with your current system, no processor in the world is going to help that, next step - separate sub!
The BBE isn't designed to be a bass booster - although it does have that capability, it's designed to realign frequencies for speakers to reproduce better.  If you have the Lo contour set any higher than the 12:00 position, you are running it too high & if you find that you aren't getting the bass response without turning it up higher, then you have outgrown the system & need to upgrade!  When you add a sub, you will find the bass don't need to be turned up as high thus saving your full range speakers from trying to reproduce the deep bass that it sounds like you are seeking.

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The BBE is robbing the amp of headroom cause you have the low contour too high...Not too high for your tastes, but too high for the available headroom. Your amp is clipping hard. you need a bigger amp, or you need to run properly powered separate subs.

I am certain of this because you complain of low SPL's, bass pop and crackling when singers hammer into the mic.

First, if your BBE will accept balanced XLR patch cables on input's outputs, then use them. If fact, use them all thru the signal chain if your gear will accept them. They will give you +4dB or more over unbalanced 1/4" cables. If you are already using XLR's all the way thru the signal chain, then either reduce the lows or remove the BBE before you fry your horns or the passive crossovers in the main cabs. +4dB headroom is a lot, but if you are already clipping, then it really ain't enuff unless you ride the sliders constantly.

You can burn the voice coils in the woofers of the main cabs if you continue to clip, but  the odds are you will lose the horns or crossovers first.

Do not expect the BBE to do the impossible. Your top cabs just cannot give you the bass you want. Examine their specs and you will see that they will reproduce bass freqs, but only at -10dB or so....-10dB is not what we today call BASS....

Bass today hits you in the chest.....A BBE will try to do that, but you have to have the amp and drivers to get it.

 

 Bass pop on a g2 generally indicates a (very) maladjusted system  There is audio clipping somewhere..Even outdoors I dont like to run the vol more than 80-90 % and never run the bass all the way up on the g2's.. Like Lonman says turn your adjusts back to normal...All the way thru including the bass treble on the dfx12...  I also would be curious what the ind lights on the dfx12 are doing esp the ol's

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Karyoker,

You old muleskinner!

I fersure did buy that Appaloossa this morning. That is one fine horse! He is identical to the horse Clint Eastwood rode in High Plains Drifter. He lookes like somone tossed a bucket of grey/black paint in his face and on his chest otherwise he is white. God, he is huge!

Both my hands are rope burned and my right forearm is scraped and deeply bruised...Turns out he had never been trailered and decided to reverse just as he was almost fully loaded. He spooked just as I thought all was cool and tried to break free. I was in the driver's side of a two horse straight load trailer and he was on the passenger side. When he spooked, he ripped out two welded crossbars and  banged me around till I lost my grip.

We finally got him home uninjured......Two hours later we had a saddle on him and he acted like he had been born wearing it.....I have never seen a more gentile and trusting  breed than the Appaloosa.....My buddy is grinning....He has been out there all day working with that horse or on the phone bragging about it. I think it's pretty good that we could load a green horse and saddle break him in just a few hours.

Although this post isn't as "technical" as some of yours, I know you are trying to "teach", but most kj's don't understand half of the way you explain things.  I've been in music & equipment for over 20 years with training from the Art Institute in recording engineering & your explanations confuse me quite often.  Explain things in more laymen terms please.

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[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

Yup my pa had some good appies....  Some old timers could get a horse or cow into a trailerwith no trouble at all ....

 Years ago on the farm all the trucks had beet beds.They swiveled to either side and you drop the side brds and at the dump a lift would would dump the beets.   Well everybody had stock racks that slid down all the way around...I was going around a sharp corner on a dirt road and all the cows slid over to one side.. we dumped them all in the bar pit in a big cloud of dust...  Needless to say you wouldnt have snowball chance in hell gettin them back in that rig

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I ain't trying to teach, I am attempting to share.

Sorry if I come across as a "know it all"

I'm a "share it all".

Simpler terms? Ok.

Lonman said it simpler than me. He posted the same answer while I was typing mine.

The guy needs either separate subs with a proper sub amp, or he needs to crank way down on his BBE low contour knob because he is clipping somewhere...Most likely at the amp.

He is clipping the amp or somewhere in the chain before the amp.

The amp will reproduce a clipped signal no matter where it happens. Clipping is destructive to your speakers and should never be allowed to happen.

A BBE or any device that accents bass freqs will tend to make your speakers ask for additional power from the amps. If the power is there and if the speaker can handle the freqs and extended cone travel and extra power, then all is good. But if the speaker discovers you are asking too much, it will complain and then fail if you don't back off.

A BBE, a Kosmos, an Aphex exciter or any such device is in reality nothing more than a grin on a graphic EQ....and we all know what happens when you grin a graphic EQ at a system that can't handle it....It smiles at you as it destroys your drivers or depleats your headroom and destroys your mix.

All this info is free and given with a sharing spirit  I used to charge $100- $250 per hr for design and installation of all systems, audio video and rf (cable).  When I dont undrstand somebody I'll ask them to explain it in different terms.. Oh well.....

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Thank you all for your help.  :D  I took my speakers back where I purchased them and had a friend that worked there fire them up to see if I had damaged them.  :dancin: He said they were fine but did notice that I wasn't engaging the "mic" button on the back of my JBL eon G2's. He said because I was using XLR cables the Speakers had to be switched from "Line" to "Mic". When he did this the volume increased dramatically and I didn't have raise the levels on the board. I was going to purchase the JBL powered G2 sub do you think this would help. It is rated at 250 watts. My friend suggested in going with the JBL Jrx 118sp at 500watts with a built in crossover. Any suggestions? thanks bob

Uh oh that would do it...JBL will take quite a punishment... Yea the one I want is The Jrx100/118 I heard 2 a few weeks back they are awesome....

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The difference you heard between mic and line is the increase I described earlier....You just gave the speaker amp a whole lot more to work with on the input side.

Enjoy!

Adding a sub is a bonus to almost any system, a sub will allow you to back off the bass frequencies to your main speakers..  The JRX sub, even though is considered low-low/mid end for JBL, is a decent sounding sub & compliments the EON series nicely.  Given the choice, I would always take an 18" sub over a 15" (deeper frequencies) & the extra power will be a bonus as well.

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Just keep it that way Keith, there are people who need those tech' reading and may get them going into the 'why' and not just the 'how' of things.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott