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I got some decent info about software and stuff about a month or so ago on the board.  I am now at the stage where I am getting ready to start making purchases.  I plan on using a laptop with maybe MTU hoster software or Sax and Dotty's...still not sure which to choose.  Here is what my goals are.....just need to know what components are required to do so.  Of course, best bang for the buck gear is always great.  I will be working fairly small venues...(100-200 people).  I want to offer at least 3-4 singer mics and of course have my own mic input.  I'd like to have my input on the control side, but not a mandatory option.  I want a system with all seperate components.  I know I need an amp, some kinda mixer, some kinda effects processor, and of course speakers, a monitor for lyrics... I am currently working as a KJ/DJ at a small bar, but they have all their own gear(which is old and unreliable).  One thing I have seen is that some units only have 1/4 inch mic inputs, rather than the XLR Connectors.  I already have 3 samson r21 mics with XLR connections. I also want to be able to record performances and offer those on a CD for customers.  I already have 3 samson r21 mics with XLR connections.  Some other (probably stupid) questions I have:

- how will I interface the audio gear with the laptop or PC? Do they connect thru USB or what?
- how many watts will I need?
- how many channels in the amp?
- Please give me a few decent options on each component that I need...maybe an option for low budget, mid budget,  high budget....(Please)

Basically I want to run my show completely via computer with all songs loaded on the hard drive...but also want to be able to play CDs that customers bring in of their own.  Please feel free to explain the integration of components, etc in terms a total clueless newbie can follow. heh

Thank you in advance,

D.J.

You Might Want to Use the search engine here, There is a plethera If Information allready typed up and ready to read about every question you asked.

Unless of course someone wants to go throught it all again


Just a thought

Depending on your willingness to carry a little extra weight, you might decide to go PC vice laptop.

I prefer the PC for several reasons:

-PC can be easily assembled by yourself and configured exactly to meet your needs, then updated or altered cheaply and easily afterwards.

-PC can be placed it in an inexpensive rackable case with your mixer and other outboard gear.

-PC upgrade parts/cards/storage/drives/burners/memory and repair parts are much cheaper, and offer extensive selection and true pro-audio quality and interface capability.

-PC can actually offer a much more pro look when racked and used with LCD monitor and wireless keyboard and mouse.

-PC is much more durable and less prone to damage/theft when racked vice laptop.

-And of course, it's still a PC and can be used for video, gaming, and all other normal PC tasks.

If you decide to go PC vice laptop, I suggest you consider the M-Audio Delta series sound cards. They include pro-audio 1/4" fully balanced connection jacks and are intended for the true sound professional. They will also properly interface electronically with your pro audio mixer line level inputs.

Thats why I use Pc rack mount..  I've put 2 or 3 together  You can buy 2 unit computer cases on Ebay They are for servers and wont fit in a standard case, so I cut them down to about 17".   This holds a micro atx m-brd hard drive and in my present one I have 2 power supplies.. A pc 90 degree riser is need and from experience use cable tie ties to anchor the boards in Booting up with a video board halfway out of the slot will fry it everytime...

 Right nw I'm using a Gemini 10 over 6 slant rack with dfx 12 on top...The comp is in the bottom I run an ide cable and power to a Plextor in a 1'3 slot arrangement...

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the other thing... you need to know HOW to fix a pc or laptop if you have issues during the night. They're NOT infallible! For instance, I wouldn't mind going the route of a laptop, but if I have anything other than a software issue, I'd be totally hosed. Therefore, I've kept my research to what I know the most about, and even THEN, I still run back to Tig for some tech experience here and there.

I am confident during a show if I have a problem, I can handle the pc.

Can you?

In other words, if you're asking for help on the software or tech stuff, do you have the experience if say a hard drive failed, or your video went bonkers... during bootup you saw an error flash, and suddenly you have to deal with that!

I used to give tons of advice, until someone far more knowledgeable pointed out to me that all I'm doing is helping computer novices convert to computer, and if they have troubles, they won't have the expertice to fix that problem on the spot.

I experimented with my current system for over a year, and even took a lot of razzin' from my fellow computer folks, as I was the FIRST to start getting stuff, and about the last to go into the pro field with it... because I wasn't HAPPY with how it was turning out, and kept trying new things.

Some of us karaoke hosts do the same when it comes to pro audio gear, or pro karaoke equipment.

Certainly your pc of choice should be worked on with the same kind of intensity!

Good point Matt  My backup hard drive is set up with an operating system and I try to keep the music up with the main hard drive..  But if the main hard drive crashes or the os I can unplug the Plextor and hook up the backup hard drive and boot with it... I f worse comes to worse you can usb the external hard drive to a tower and run the show...

Would like to hear about other backup tricks... I lost $500 last summer because I couldnt bootup.......

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Yep, but it's best to avoid a server style case altogether. A server case is much deeper to allow a bank of hot swap drives in front and a dual processor MB inside.

A full size ATX rackable case is actually cheaper than a server case and is no deeper than your average power amp....They seem harder to find only because when you Google "rack mount PC case" you have to sort thru all the server cases first.

This one can be had for 179 at discounter sites:

http://startech.com/ststore/ItemDetail. ... tab=b&mt=p

Please note that it is described as a "industrial work station case", not a server case.

Being a work station case, the drive bays are properly located in front just like a standard PC....Even the back panel is like a standard PC.

And being 4RU tall it will accept several standard PCI cards and a full size ATX MB...Which translates to cheap and convenient upgrades.

Thank you for all of the tips.  I am actually in the process of working with a vendor to purchase a PC that is supposed to have in excess or 80,000 songs. And from what I have gathered, he is licensed to sell the songs, but I don't really know all the legalities. Maybe ya'll can help me out on that...?

I guess the main questions that I need answered are about the live sound equipment.  I am thinking I need a main power supply, an amp, a mixer (powered or not?), an effects module, and something to tie all of this into the PC or Laptop.

Also, where do you guys get your music.  I really like the sound choice versions of songs when I am singing...but they seem to be a lot more expensive than sweet georgia brown, chartbusters, etc.  I am also concerned about purchasing larger packages from multiple vendors and getting stuck with tons of duplicate songs. Any advice on how to avoid that ?  Thanks again for the help, D.J.

good call on questioning the music.

I personally buy the music through the vendors (i.e. retailers) here on this site, and a few others. It's from nearly a decade of buying music... what I have listed on my computer I have the physical discs and can prove it.

80,000 tracks??? No way is that legal unless you're dumping 50K or more just for the library.

I am by no means a big purchaser of music, but I've got just over 16,000 tracks and that's cost me over 47K with the odd 5-10K for computers, amps, mixers, speakers, players, and other misc. expenses.

80,000 is possible matt... there are many vendors who sell machines with even more preloaded on it than that... BUT you get 30,000 korean songs... 15,000 vietnamese songs, 25,000 mandarin etc... and they are in a MIDI format and that isn't really a bad thing if the hardware can interpret the MIDI sequence back into real sounding instruments... I have worked with bands that used MIDI sequencers and the MIDI's to the normal ear sounded aweful but when ran through the MIDI processor they sounded like a fricken big band backing them up... -tig

Not sure what type of files they are yet...still trying to find out the details, etc.  

I am looking at some karaoke starter packages in case the deal with this guy falls through.  I like sound choice, but they are really expensive.  I do plan on getting their larger packages, but not going to nit pick with all their smaller CDs.  Then I was thinking of getting the Sweet Georgia Brown library pack for like $150 for over 1000 songs. I know they are not the greatest versions, but the bar I am working now has a lot of them...and the patrons don't seem to mind them.  THe sound choice starter packs seem to be about $400 per set of about 450 songs.

Any other brands/package deals I should look into?

For the venues I am doing, I really only need about 3,000-5000 songs to start out with...(the club I work now only has 3000 or so, and many are duplicates) Then I figure that I can update as needed/requested/desired.

Thanks

the packs are a way to go.

I'd personally stay away from SGB, or at least use them until you can afford to get better. I always cringe when I see that logo come up on the screen.

Now, there ARE some good gems in there, but not worth the whole set.

anyway, I'd get the All Hits if you can get them, Dangerous, and yes, even the backstage ones. They're not great, but like the SGB, fine for total song count and you can eventually replace the more popular songs.

look for the songs on sale from the vendors too! Karaoke.com has monthly and weekly sales. I picked up a ton of songs that way.

And most recently, I have fallen in love with the Top Hits Monthly SIX packs... monthly releases of Pop, Rock, Country and Urban (which I don't even list the urban stuff)... that's four discs... but the fifth and six ones are random discs form their Platinum line (whole artist), duets, best of Pop, Best of Country, Best of Rock... REALLY good way to shop that way. If you're interested, email me on that... I have a guy that gives me the six packs for $50, and if you're on computer, for $34!!!

okay, but let's take a look at just THIS part of your post... I've seen that same CAVs unit, and sometimes it's the same song but different languages... WHICH is quite kewl, by the way.

However, what's the MARKET for this m'man? In the case directly presented by the original post on the thread, this guy is looking to start up a system and use it in an existing bar to either replace or suppliment the current system.

what good is having 15,000 Vietnamese songs in a bar that doesn't even have that as a serious customer base?

The sheer numbers isn't really what's the issue, as to what you're getting, and what are your plans for your system. If you're going to have a multi-ethnic customer base, working with those same kind of venues, then FINE...

just didn't seem to be the case here.

Sound Choice has many types of offerings that's really advantageous depending on the system you're getting.

There's the Foundation 1 and 2 systems. Yes, those are abot $400... but you're getting the BEST songs out there (maybe one or two aren't GREAT, but SHEESH) And that's JUST under a DOLLAR per song!

Then there's the brick add ons. I personally only have ONE of these... wouldn't mind getting the others, but I've supplemented my whole collection over the years where it almost wouldn't be worth it.
120 songs for $120!! Again, a BUCK a song! OF the very best versions!

Then there's the new MORTAR sets. That's 12 spotlights with 15 songs each for a total of $199. That's 180 songs for almost a buck a piece... a bit more. But those are even more the songs you want! to SUPPLEMENT your songlist.

Just recently SC has announced that you can "break up" the foundations and get them on a single "spotlight like" price... if you're looking for certain ones, that's a good way to start cheaply... a disc at a time. Personally, I'd rather get the whole thing!

There are custom discs you can get as well... this is the $5 a song, minimum 10 songs per disc... with shipping and handling, you will spend $58-$65 per disc!

That's SIX dollars a song!

BUT they're great ways for people with serious, established songlists that they don't NEED to get twelve spotlights... I have 15 of these suckers... and yes, I've ended up getting older spotlights to fill in wholes that eventually gave me dupes of my customs in some cases... but it didn't mean that the money I spent WHEN I spent it on them wasn't money well spent...

For a weekly gig where you're not getting much, adding a few spotlights here and there won't add up to a great amount, and not really be that impressive. But when all 45 songs you got on 3 15 song custom are exactly what the customers want... that's totally different.

I know I've probably confused you... but I'm approaching this from two perspectives. That of the newly started songbase, and a completely established one!

Thanks for the info everybody.  I am probably going to bite the bullet and buy the two sound choice foundation sets as well as the SGB set with 1050 songs for $150 just to have more to offer those 90% of singers who dont really care about the song version.
From there I will just have to evaluate what mandatory songs are missing from those and buy disks or sets accordingly.

Now I really need info on what components I need. I am talking from the top of the rack down...including adapters, connectors...etc.  :-)  

Thanks again,

D.J.

Sound choice foundations sets are great in quality but should be a pain in the#@%%&@ to import as Sound Choice is anti computer karaoke.  I've seen a bar called Star Struck go under for having Sound Choice on their CAVS player.
But I have also heard of at least one case where Sound Choice lost the battle against someone who owned the particualr discs and had them imported onto a computer without any means of burning that could be seen to the naked eye.

My prefernce for software is RoxBox.

matt- I didn't say whether there was a market for it or not... you brought up the dead horse of legality AGAIN about 80,000 songs on a machine... as far as markets go, yes in some markets THAT selection would be very acceptable... I have set up clubs in portland with those types of selections because in THEIR market and customer base it is needed... try to look outside the english box... and the machines I was speaking of were not the CAVS crap... the original post was not asking about customer base and it didn't divide up what exactly the 80K songs comprised of so jumping onto the "legality" bandwagon ignores the fact that there ARE systems that can have that many songs on them legally and your client base is not everyone elses client base... the foreign language market dwarfs the english speaking market... - tig

The last time I got the Kjpro database it seemed like it was over 155,000...I have spent years buying. I have the Soundchoice foundation and I think all the bricks... I recently triimed dups again etc and I'm back down to 12,500 and probably got one of the best selections around I need nov dec and jan THM and will get them shortly...  I have seen these preloaded drives and let me tell you something... A drive with 80k would take 2 years to get rid of the dups, typos and junk... To me it would be worthless.... It is nothing other than a mess.....And I sure as hell wouldnt import it as a data base.........Streamline....

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the latest kj pro updates has over 275,000 songs...