Karaoke Forums

After submitting three songs, I realized I have to have a better-sounding set up to record and submit to SS.  Unfortunately, it's not in my budget right now to go out and buy expensive recording equipment.   Can anyone give me any suggestions for an inexpensive set up that will make my subs at least somewhat acceptable in sound quality such as getting a better mix between the instrumental track and the vocals and a decent volume?  The only thing I have right now to record on is a Vocopro Duet, which makes bad analog recordings for submitting on here since you can't mix anything.  I do have a decent mic--Shure Beta 58A.  All I can do on this machine for purposes of recording is turn the mic up or down, use echo vocal effects while singing, and change the key.   After I made my recordings, I used Audacity to upload to my computer and change it to MP3 format.  

For any set up, I would have to be able to change the key on my CD-Gs, and have some vocal-effect options.  I don't know if it makes any difference if echo is added while singing and recording or if added after the song is recorded in terms of the kind of sound it produces which is another question I have.  Also, I would like to still be able to use the lyrics graphics either on my TV monitor or computer if it's computer based, if possible.  


Because I don't know what I'm doing yet, I need a Dick, Jane, and Puff breakdown--for those of you old enough to remember those characters--of exactly what items I need and what to plug in and where.

I know this is a lengthy request, but I've been sort of stuck in cyberland trying to figure this all out without much success.  I've also read many posts but haven't found an answer to this kind of question.  I figured with all the different set ups you folks have out there, someone may know of something that would work for me at a minimal cost.  Thanks so much...Deb

It really disturbs me that with all the technical slinging that goes on in this forum that it took so long for you to get a response Deb.

Here goes, first off it is a pleasure to meet you Deb and I hope you enjoy your time here, there really are some great people here and other sites similar in nature.

Kristal Audio Input
http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/index.php?section=details

MP3MyMP3 to save your mixed result from the above to an mp3
http://www.mp3mymp3.com/

Both of these tools are free for private use hon.

I usually record my vocals as input1 and add any effects which go well with the song I am performing.
Also as you are recording your vocals, go ahead and have the MP3 Recorder open and pay attention to the noise indicator on the right hand side of the screen.  All you need to worry about is hitting the top red zone.
Make sure that within the MP3 Recorder you have Microphone selected also, NOT stereo.

After I am happy with my vocals i then change the source in the MP3Recorder to Stereo, turn OFF the microphone, mute my vocals on input1
and start recording the backing on input2

I never save anything in the Kristal engine unless it's a fragment of something I plan on using with other selections.

Once I have the vocals matched to the backing, there are plenty of methods of equalizing your vocals with the backing,

I select what bitrate I want to use for the selection in the MP3 Recorder
If you are a Free User you are limited to 3MB which is quite often difficult to obtain using anything over 64 bit rate,but if you ever upgrade to a membership you get at least 5MB per song and can usually record at the 128 or 160 bit rate level.
(you may not be able to tell much of a difference in the bit rate setting at home on your pc, but when you post your selection to the web site you will be able to hear a difference in the sound quality.)

When you are recording your final version in the MP3 Recorder, all you really need to pay attention to is to ensure your MIC is off
so you don't pick up background noises and watch the noise indicator on the right hand side, make sure it doesn't hit the red too much
while you are singing.

I believe that's all you need hon, and it's as inexpensive as it gets, .[url][/url][url][/url]

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Thank you, thank you for replying....I was kinda wondering if my question was too lame.  

I downloaded the two programs you mentioned and am playing around with them, but I have more questions.  On your post you mentioned Krystal for recording, but most of your post had to do with the MP3 program so I got a little confused as to what I do on which program.  I'm assuming that all the recording and mixing is done on Krystal and the only thing I use the MP3 program for is to change the file to an MP3.  

I seem to be able to record from a microphone on Krystal (which came out clear), but when I tried recording a CD-G track from my CD drive, I couldn't find any place on the Krystal program to select for recording. Their "helps" doesn't mention anything about recording from your CD drive.  I was able to record a CD-G track from my Vocopro but the quality was no better than on Audacity.   It was all muffled sounding so I wanted to nix the whole idea of using my Vocopro duet machine with the computer and just use the CD drive.  (I know I can't change pitch without getting a software program that allows me to burn tracks on a CD with the new pitch.)  But for right now, I'm just trying to figure out how to get everything working and recording.    

I hope you don't mind if I keep asking questions until I get everything set up.  I sooo appreciate all your help...

Thanks again,
Deb

Hey Red!    Well you and I have the Audacity program in common, that's what I use.  I also use a Tascam US-122 audio interface, which has really helped the quality of my recordings. Not sure what your idea of expensive is, but mine was about 200 bucks..............  Audacity comes with alot of effects already, so I don't think you would need much else, and you do have the ability to raise/lower the key of a song, but sometimes it tends to reduce the quality of the track.  So if you were to purchase this setup, your looking at about 200 bucks, and then just install the software, plug the US-122 into a USB port, import a backing onto Audacity, and sing away. Hope this helps a little

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

As I pay attention to the noise level as much as possible this is how I do it using the combo mp3mymp3 and Krystal

Record vocals, select microphone as your source in MP3MYMP3
Record with Krystal All effects and recording are done within KRYSAL

After you record vocals, turn off MIC, select stereo as your source in MP3MYPM3
Record with Krystal All effects, mixing and recording are done within KRYSAL.

I am trying to accomplish the best sound I can without having to buy virtually any addition programs or hardware add-ons, because when I try to help others learn how to work with streaming media, one thing I don't want to do is associate a cost with it.

But I will tell you this, if you listen to Chamjam's music at Singer's Showcase you will essentially listen to professional recordings in my book.  So maybe his way is the best way if that's what you are looking for.

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Thank you, Chamjam, for your suggestions.  I never even heard of an audio interface before so I went to their website to check it out.  It's something I would definitely consider at some point because your subs sound superb.

Thanks, I am going to try these.  What I guess was the missing piece of the puzzle is the fact (am I correct?) that I still need to purchase karaoke software to play the songs on.  I was thinking before of connecting my Vocopro to my computer, but it's clear that it just isn't going to work because the level on the machine is preset and it distorts terribly when recording on computer recording software.  What karaoke software do you use to play your CD-Gs?  I was looking at a company online called "Power Karaoke."  I'm assuming most karaoke software is okay and an inexpensive option.

Sorry I posted these out of order.

Hey Red................Ok, so you need the cdg's so you can have the words in front of you?.........My advice would be to learn the words or put them onto notepad so you can read them that way.  You don't need any karaoke software at all, look online for a mp3 converter called DBpoweramp, that's what I use, and it's really simple, it has a 14 day trial, and then you have to buy it, but it's only 9 bucks I think.  

I would always go with a high quality backing, such as Soundchoice, any good sub starts with a good quality backing.  You then would rip a track to your computer, then convert it to mp3, then open up Audacity, select import track, find your track, and poof, there it is.  Now you don't really NEED the USB device I was talking about earlier, you can just plug your mic into your soundcard, but I would recommend the US-122 if you have the bucks for it.......


Now you have your track imported to Audacity,  press record, and sing away, of course the more you learn about the program, the more you will realize how to tweak things to get the sound you want, but that's basically it, you would then save the finished track, my version of Audacity exports as a wav file, so I have to convert it to mp3 again after i'm finished, and then put it up on the Showcase so's we can hear it...............I might think of more later

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

I love these tips coming in.  Your suggestion on using notepad is definitely do-able.  Another question I have is how would I go about changing the key since almost every song I sing is in the wrong one for me?  Looking online I found info. on a relatively inexpensive program (about $40) called Keyrite Karaoke that lets you burn tracks onto another CD in your own key.  Would I need something like that or is there another way?

Thanks for your help...Deb

Oh no, no ,no........You don't need anything like that, once you have your track imported onto Audacity, highlight the track (click right in between where it says "mute" and "solo") then go to your effects menu, select "change pitch", move it down or up a couple notches and voila!  I will tell you though, that on some tracks this will reduce the sound quality, and the more you take it down or up, the more it will have this effect, so I usually just stick with stuff I can sing in the orginal key, hope that helps a little......And remember, i'm no expert, this is just what I have learned from using the program, , good luck

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

Fantastic!!  I usually don't have to change the key too many semitones.  Thank you for all your help.  I think I have enough information now to get started.  If I run into anymore problems/questions, I'll be back.

Much appreciated,
Deb

Oh yea, I thought of something else......As far as effects go, using Audacity, you will always add those after you have recorded, I usually use a mix as I go approach, because if I get too many tracks going at once, my computer gets upset with me, so maybe record a verse, add whatever effects you might want and then move onto the next verse, if you get too many tracks going at once, just highlight all the tracks after you have added the desired effects, click your "project" tab, and select "quick mix", then you will be back to only one track again, and you can move on to the rest of the song.  I will tell you flat out what effects I use, though I usually change them a little depending on the song ............

   1. Compression.....I usually will leave this at the default setting, which I believe is -12db, though on some tracks, you can get a really nice effect from double compressing it, like maybe use the -12 and then use it again at -18, sometimes this can make the vocal sound overcompressed, but sometimes it really brings the vocal upfront alot more. I usually don't adjust the "ratio" or "attack time"

 2.  Echo..............I usually set this at 0.2 and 0.1, if you want a little more echo effect you can take it up to 0.2 and 0.2, but I don't really like to use a lot of echo personally, all depends on your taste, but using just a touch usually has a nice effect when mixed with reverb.

3.   Reverb......Or as it says on my version of Audacity....Gverb.....The settings I usually use for this are as follows.......

         Roomsize: 40
         Reverb time: 4
         Damping: 0.9
         Dry signal: 0
         Early reflection: -22
         Tail Level: -28
         
      You can add more or less reverb by tweaking the early reftlection and the tail level, and also, depending on the track, you can really get a nice sound from using a double reverb effect, which would be using the settings I mentioned, and then adding the effect again with the early reflection set to -28 and the tail level set to -31...........whew, ok that's all I have for now, I think my recording methods probably sound crazy to some, but it's just what I have learned from messing around with stuff.................

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Satisfaction is the death of desire

I was wondering how I was going to figure out how to use all the features of recording once I get things going.  But you've so thoughtfully provided your knowledge to help alleviate some of the difficulty with this massive learning curve I'm on.   This'll help save me a bunch of time.  Thanks...Deb

Red, I'm glad I read your post too...I was goign to offer you some help which now sounds meaningless after reading the replies you've already gotten.  Chamjam did a really great job of explaining and taught me a few things that I will now try.  It is hard to get the right mix, I've been playing with the effects for a couple of months now and still haven't gotten it right.  Good luck.

Thanks, anyway....it's the thought that counts

You silly goose!!!! .. Hope the cool edit pro works well for ya now!!! Little grasshopper..

      Say hi to Dan and the family..

    Mark =))

I sure will....thank you so much, Mark, for taking the time to get me started.  I'll be bugging you with questions, I'm sure.  :)