Karaoke Forums

Oh they do here too Badsinger    But it's go to be a couple of bare breasts, serving minors, or loud music..  If it's fighting, somebody passed out at the bar, a couple of ounces of pot out in the parking lot then it's a national emergency..

 The sad part is due to the economy, strict laws, media bs, and a total loss of old traditions in the last 7 years 1/3 of the established bars in this country are closed forever.. The mom and pop ones anyway... Us poor working people have to quit bickering amongst ourselves and start healing an ailing industry.  Quit griping about the competition is doing or want the calvary to rescue us (it dont work) What goes around comes around.... The natural and spiritual laws that truly govern will determine those that will succeed and honesty, fairness, old traditions and love will prevail... I promise....

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What I find interesting is that there are some here that talk about piracy that have also favorably discussed the use of computer based karaoke.  Is there a difference? It was my understanding that unless you're using the original disc, your running an illegal system.  To my knowledge (and I'm no expert) CAVS is the only machine licensed by four (maybe five) manufacturers and only for specified disc's.  I'm very interested in finding out as I'm frequently asked about this by KJ's.

there is a distinct difference between those that buy the karaoke discs and support the maufacturers but violate "copyright" by converting the files to computer... and those that don't support the industry!

But that's me rationalizing what I do, according to folks that are "traditionalists" and follow the antiquated copyright laws to the letter of the law.

I'll try make this is the short version of the argument for you Big Bopper:

If you have bought the ORIGINAL karaoke discs, many K.J.'s believe that you have a right to make an extra copy for yourself for protection, or you can download them into a computer for your shows since it really doesn't affect the market because the originals have already been purchased. Technically it's illegal, without manufacturer permission, but many think you should have the right to do it. I agree.

The ones who rightfully catch the most hell are the K.J.'s who buy or make illegal copies of c-dg's to use in their shows, without owning the originals. These are the ones that affect legitimate K.J.'s, cd-g manufacturers, etc. Also, the non-K.J. makers/ sellers of many of these illegal discs are pretty much despised, too.

There's a lot more detailed info in the archives by more informed members, but this seems to be the jist that I get. I only use like to use originals, and I have no back-ups, but I think we should be able to.

In the fifties I bought every Marty Robbins album he ever came out with, 33 1/3 variety. Over the years I converted to reel to reel, 8 track, and to tape deck. And yes I've got some on my hard drive. Now there are ones here that would debate which operations were illegal.  Now are you saying at the gig sat nite if I want to play some Marty Robbins I can if I packed all 50+ 33 1/3 albums with I'm ok or had I better go over to the farm and pack an old phonograph over here to play him?

Cd's are fast becoming an obsolete medium for music and by the time they realize they should be selling downloads legally to all singers to take on flash drives to karaoke , the bars that are still in business will be downloding them via high speed inet....To all the clubs in the chain...And there wont be any Kj's as such....

We just liquidated over a half million dollars in farm properties with one of the best attorneys around.. I'm getting tired of all the legal advice and vague notions about what is what.. If I do want advice I'll consult my attorney and if he does not know certain copyright ins and outs I'm sure that he knows someone that does......And I'm not going to jeopardize my business or make any decisions on rumors....

To those that operate a valid KJ and DJ business with tax licence and all I could tell you how to eliminate piracy and all the competition in your area but the end result would totally kill what business we have now.. I normally don't get formal or serious on a forum, but I am tired of all this childish squabbling and egotistical crap that does absolutely nothing for anyone or this business. I have told many younguns in my life time I'll leave you in the dust son.  Lets ride people... Vaminos amigos....

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That IS the root of the problem; the industry is too slow to move with time. When we the comsumer go beyond them we become pirates

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Well umm Karyoker...in response to your earlier posts, I was only trying to make an alternative solution to a present day problem pertaining to karaoke, even if it is a little far fetched. Don't plan on moving to China anytime soon, because even as screwed up as our government can be, I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. I'm sorry it's not the America as you remember, looking at your posts, but I think we're kinda stuck with it (I miss the 80's, personally ).

There wasn't any "childish squabbling" or "egotistical crap" going on in this thread, so I'm guessing you were talking about the tons of past debates on this subject, I'm hoping.

Just out of curiousity, how would stopping piracy "kill what business we have now"? Not trying to push buttons, just curious.

Unfortunately, Karyoker, the competition is leaving us no choice but to "gripe about them", and since were not vigilantes, the "cavalry" MUST come to our rescue eventually. I guess the problem is trying to find willing horsemen.

Chris my curt posts and curt remarks stem from spending all the sixties in the military defending the constitution and citizen rights, then coming back to a spitting crowd.Since then Iv'e witnessed them totally destroy the constitution and erode the rights that I laid my life down for. I guess what I'm really riled about we buried the first Iraq casualty in this county last vets day. What the anti war demonstrators done at the procession would make any American vomt and it was all I could do to stand there with the deceased marines mother and salute and not go over and kill them...So I apoligise if I got carried away but when it comes to gov intervention I will come unglued...

Actually I yearn for the 40's post war period when a man or woman either one could work 40 hours a week and support a big family.. And we wouldnt be sitting here talking about what we are...............

Yea I cant imagine what it will be 5-10 years from now. Trouble is nobody else either...I just hope there are still bands with real people and a small karaoke bar on the corner

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Dear kjchrisc

I'm afraid you're mistaken.  Piracy is piracy.  According to the copyright regulations that I've read and had interpreted by an entertainment attorney, if you are a professional, such as a KJ, your only right is to use the original disc.  Making a "back-up" copy, or copying it to your hard drive, and then using it is still illegal.  Companies like Sound Choice and Priddis have offered to replace disc's that have become unusable for the cost of shipping to encourage legit usage.  CDG's do not fall under the category of software.

I won't be told by a company HOW to use my product.

Sound Choice and the other karaoke manufacturers only have a "shared" use of the license, which is why they can't give permission to go to backups or computer... they don't OWN the intellectual copyright. They only have a 1-time useage for such a license.

Does Sony tell you how to use your tv, vcr, dvd, other than to "not steal"? No.
Does McDonalds tell you how to use their products that you purchase?
Ford?

I own it, and I'll convert it for my useage. If challenged I can prove ownership of my bought cdgs. I don't RENT them. I buy them.

Period.

The companies are not telling you how to use their products, the government is.  You don't like the law, then stay legal and lobby to have the law changed.

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Wow, This thread came back somehow. Big Bopper, I'm VERY aware of what piracy is, and the laws, but what I was basically saying, a couple of months ago, was that we SHOULD have the right to back up our originals. I use ALL originals when I do an occasional side gig, and the only disc I have a back-up copy of is one of my two original S.C. 8125's, for obvious reasons. I always protect my disc's, but if someone steals them, I'm dead in the water and out a few thousand dollars. So yeah, with this kind of investment, I feel I should have the RIGHT to back them up, but I will still always use my originals, if they don't get stolen, etc.

If I'm competing with someone like Knightshow, I would not complain about his use of a computer, since he already HAS the original discs. I don't consider that to be "unfair competition", unlike the REAL threat of unscrupulous K.J. "burners" who are the ones that are truely hurting the industry!

Big Bopper, please don't interpret my opinion of being able back my discs up, as being "mistaken" with the actual laws in question.

It's not that I don't like the law... it's that I don't agree with it.  And I'll make my issues to the judge when I'm sued in court.

I will say one thing about if I LOSE such a lawsuit.

Being told what MEDIA I'm going to HAVE to use it on would be the last straw. I'll retire completely from this business. And many of the legit computer karaoke jocks/hosts might as well. Losing my $800-$1000 a year won't mean beans to the manufacturers. Losing 1500 times that... someone's going to notice. It's already so cutthroat that some of the NW kjs have either quit the business or are ready to. Just ask Lonman about that.

All it's going to take to nudge those of us out is a unbiased judgement that refuses to take a look at the spirit of the law (which is intended to stop people from STEALING their intellectual property - not converting what you've already paid for to suit our individual needs), and instead goes with the pure letter of the law - that is, you as a purchaser don't have the RIGHT to do this, so we'll stomp out your little campfire.

If such a judgement comes down from on high, I think you'll see a whirlwind that will forever change the karaoke industry... even if a decision like that is reversed, the sheer damage it can cause in it's wake will be attrocious. Lost gigs suddenly won't be found again in areas of high saturation!

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Well actually if they enforced it and made it for legitimate discs only, then the fly by nights, copiers, pirates would be out of business and that would be the end of the $50 karaokes and the legit operators will make the money they deserve.  It is the flagrant disregard of the laws whether it be 1:1 or otherwise that allow the pirates to operate.

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If they want to see my originals, no problem... there they are. In a closet in my home!  The same enforcement rules apply, Tim.

If people are anti-piracy,  can someone explain to me why a customize your own karaoke disc, linked to Karaoke Scene.   Is that site an actual legit company that can burn discs?

Matt you can rationalize it all you want but the copyright law is clear.  You may not use copies or format shift for commercial use.  BTW you just told the world where you keep your original discs.  Don't be surprised one evening to come home and find them gone.  So if your house burns down, God forbid, will you stop playing shows until you get your originals back?  Or because you bought them once you can use copies forever.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

It looks to be a company that produces their own versions of the music, not copying other discs already available.  Whether they got the actual licenses required to reproduce the music is debatable though.

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