Karaoke Forums

The best thing to do to deter piracy is to let the companies who make the products know who is pirating their products. You could also post the person's  information for everyone to see on forums like this. That way the companies will know who to take action against.

....this girl who tried to steal my gig one time now works around the corner from my bar and has a collection of 30,000 songs, about 2/3 of which are illegal copies. She has also stolen some of my regulars because "She has like every song you could want."

Dunno what good it would do to turn her in, though....

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C Mc
KJ, FL

turning them in won't accomplish SQUAT! There is NO karaoke police, nor have there been any big busts since KAPA soiled it's own underwear!

This is indeed a problem, but when the manus like SC have gone after some folks and lost their buttskies in court due to all the civic / county / city / state / and Federal legislation that counters each other...

I wish it were easy to do. But the copyright laws apply to the SONGWRITERS and original owners of the copyright. The karaoke companies don't own specific copyrights, unless they have ORIGINAL songs that they've done, which they're not in the business of doing normally!

From what was told on the SC forum a while back, and I'm paraphrasing here, the original songwriters would have to go after the pirates, not the karaoke manufacturers... and it would have to be a bulk of the songwriters going in together.

The songwriters themselves are making more noise going after the illigit manus than anything else!!

And that's clearly a shame.

The manufacturers can't do anything about it, they don't own the copyrights to the music, they just have permission (well at least some do) through licensing fees to record the music for karaoke, the ones that aren't legal to begin with don't give a rats (@$%&#!) in the first place & could care less if their disc gets copied or not.  The only ones that can do anything about it are the ones that own the original copyright which is usually the artist that recorded it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Along this same lines has anyone encountered ASCAP or BMI sniffing around and imposing liscencing fines on unliscensed venues???/

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"You know that I sing the Blues and I do not suffer fools. When I'm on that silver mic, it's gonna cut ya, just like a knife"-The SWINGCAT

Here I go preaching "the venue is a community" again.

Part of our CD pledge drives at the 7 Bamboo include educating singers on how to donate legit.  If it isn't an OEM CDG we don't want it, period.  

We've explained Sesac/Ascap/BMI licensing to them, copyright and fair use, and the potential fines the club could face if caught pirating.  (Basically telling them, if we were ever caught with pirated karaoke, the fines would be so much we'd be forced to close down)

Giving the singers a sense of ownership and responsibility for the venue increases their loyaltee towards it, meaning less money goes into club known for piracy.  People can sing 10 different places around me, not have to pay $1 a song, and have cheaper drinks, but they all feel that the show is their baby too, and take good care of it.

Yah it's probably an akward way for a lot of folks to do it, but its a lot more grass roots, a lot more honorable, and a lot less sleazy than ratting someone out.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

The manufacturers owned the karaoke recording right. The songwriter own the copyright to the song not the recording.

I think

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Knightshow and I have talked about this subject indepth on many occasions.  It is my argument that karaoke piracy (multi riggers etc) will never be stopped by the industry.  The industry being the manufacturers, KJ's, DJ's, Club owners or mobile companies.  They are all too busy bickering over what is the definition of a professional, my way is best, your way sucks, technology is your friend, technology is evil and so on and so forth.  The industry has taken a legitimate fight against piracy, it's implications and repurcussions,  and turned it into a fight within and against itself.  Toqer has come closest to a good start on fixing the problems he sees- take care of your own house first.  I will take it one step further and put forth a concept that has been missed in the big karaoke picture.
 What is this innovative concept?  It involves the one group of people I did not mention in the definition of "the industry" I listed above.  THE SINGERS.  It is the singers themselves that control whether piracy is successful or if it becomes financially unviable to exist.  Let the lawyers and manufacturers and KJ's piss and moan about who's way is the best.   Let the courts get dragged down by legalese and the gray area of copyright laws and fair use.  The singers could make a tremendous change in this industry with a simple idea of supply and demand.
 Educating the singers on what to look for in a pirate show and the questions to ask of management, KJ's and club owners is a huge key to wiping pirated rigs out of existence.  As long as singers turn a blind eye to the problem and continue to spend money in a club that hires a pirated show there will be no cure for this problem.  If singers, who swear to love this form of entertainment, use their purchasing power to support legitimate shows and to starve the pirate shows then how long do you think the pirates will survive??? If a group is in a club and they are aware of what to look for in a illegal show and they collectively get up to leave to show their unwillingness to support such a KJ then how long will the pirate be employed there??? Singers must stop being shy about approaching management or owners and directly stating WHY they, and all their friends, will not spend another dime or send any business their direction as long as they have a pirated show as entertainment.  If singers stop showing up at pirated shows, and make a statement as to WHY they refuse to frequent the club, then the lifespan of that pirate in that club will be very limited.  Bottom line- no singers at a pirate show equals short term employment for that pirate.  
 I understand, from a singer's standpoint, that it may be difficult to walk away from a show with 50,000 pirated songs.  I understand that communicating to management that, as customers, you will not support a venue who hires pirated shows is not an easy thing to do.  It is much easier to go to the club, sing everything ya could ever want, drink and be merry and go home than it is to raise a fuss.  It is easier to say it is "the industry's problem" and order another round.  Singers don't have a financial or egotistical stake in "the industry" so they are the perfect vehicle to direct change.  They must understand that if THEY do not take it upon themselves to use their purchasing power to begin that change then it will not be very long before "the industry" fulfills it's destiny of being a fad and disappears entirely.  If they care at all about the legitimate KJ's and businesses that fill this board and, to many of them, is a huge part of their life, they will use their collective voice to speak up and make their voices be heard.  No one else can say it better than the singers who created this industry in the first place... just a thought- tig

ASCAP comes sniffing around every now and then at my venue... My recommendation is to pay the fee. Joe thinks it's like the Mafia, and refuses to pay them directly. He has promised to pay the artists DIRECTLY. Only trouble with that is, the artists are sometimes NOT the songwriter (the owner of the copyright)...

One thing, Toqer mentioned ASCAP/SEASAC with the pirated rigs. They don't care one iota for karaoke rip-offs... they just care that the venue itself pays it's fees. If the venue was paying it's fees, and used pirated material, I'm certain Seasac/ASCAP wouldn't raise an eyebrow.

My 2 cents : I don't think there's a way to "REALLY" stop piracy.... detering is the best way, because it's like drugs.... you close down one crackhouse and one opens up right next door.  Pardon my analogy  In my own little world, I think that the best way to sway it is to write errors into the CDs and to charge for all online services that allow music downloads but that's just me.  I personally am a first mate..... I pirate, but for my own personal use and not for financial gain

THAT is uncalled for toger.  Great way to pose your argument by calling names.  I recommend you edit your post and just pretend that these posts are from human beings.  That behavior is childish and unnecessary.  I have reported your post to the moderators.

b-hax

See my response here.


http://www.karaoke-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=5710

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Was reading this thread, and thought of something really, well... out there. I was wishing that there was a way to get local/ community governments pass something that would make K.J.'s have to get a LICENSE to run karaoke in their area. To obtain one you would have to show that you run a legal show (or at least the originals to match your copies at 1 to 1), pay a reasonable yearly fee, etc. That might weed out a lot of the pirate shows, since it could be patroled and reported on the local level. HOWEVER, I am realistic, and know that local governments probably have a gazillion other priorities and might not put much emphasis on something like that, but it would be soooo cool! They could have the police acadamy students raid illegal shows as training ! Never would probably happen, maybe not feasible, but it is a nice dream.

KJ Chris--I dunno about you, but the absolute LAST thing I need is to get the government involved in this, taxing it and screwing it up like they do everything else.  

Why do some people feel that government regulation is the solution to everything?

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

well, I can see his point, big guy! It's a federal copyright situation, and the loophole in that copyright is the people making the actual discs can NOT go after people who violate the copyright... because of the type of license issued, it's the songwriter themselves that have to get involved. So apparantly you can flagrantly violate copyright, even profit off it by running a non-purchased library, and not have any fear of retaliation!

Regulation is needed so that tax-evading scumbags can be caught and penalized. Nothing pleases me as much as seeing somebody get caught by the IRS for tax evasion.

Nothing wrong with being licensed and getting taxed on your income. You are running a "legitimate" business, are you not? So, nothing to be afraid off. If you do not pay taxes on your income, you are stealing from others and don't even deserve to stay in this country. It is your duty to pay taxes and not something you can wish away. Nobody likes paying taxes, but we all know it is a necessity.

And ps. I don't think that your statement is very fair. I do not think that you have a real idea of what the government does or doesn't do.

Well I agree that government's not perfect, Big Mike, it seems like every other scenario to curtail pirate-types under the current laws is ineffective, compounded by apathy. I know this idea may never get done, but what other method is there so far?

Some benefits:
1) Illegal shows out the door
2) Higher demand and HOPEFULLY better pay for the legitimate K.J.'s that are left.
3) Enforced on the local level, which is way more comforting than hoping the manufacturers would go out of their way get rid of the guy down the street who undercut you with his "copies" for $25 a night and free Miller High-Life.
4) Rising Cd-g sales for karaoke companies.

I wouldn't mind a little government regulation and paying an occasional fee, considering the long term benefits. There is probably a .00001 percent chance that this could happen, but I would definately be first in line if it did, taxes and fees be damned!

You folks can go to China and do your gigs.....Its regged real good.....Of course you would have to sing what the government wants... They would get 80% of the door receipts....  

I'm glad I lived in this country when it was America....You people that want to depend on the government go over there .. This country hasnt stopped piracy rustling and they have managed to turn this great nation into a drug dealers paradise either legal or illegal...If you watch the news and keep up with the current events surely you have to be joking....

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

No need to go to China; go to my country.

Oh ya, just recently the City Hall enforcment unit with the police carted thousands of $ worth audio equipment and lock up the joint that was supposed to be unlicenced.
They do act when they want to.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott