Karaoke Forums

Fair use does not extend to a "commercial" venture.  Fair use is private use, educational, and a few other things only, not commercial use.  That is where Knight and others who run computer shows fail to understand, regardless of the "technological" advances.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I don't fail to understand it. I am WAITING to be sued to openly challenge it! Nothing would give me greater pleasure in challenging the copyright act and proving how in a situation like this where I openly purchase tha material that I can do what I want with it, even in a commercial setting!

The lawmakers nor the product manfuacturers can NOT tell me how to use the material I purchase. They don't have the right, unless they provide their own player! In today's market, I can justify going to computer for proper business sense, and will do so!

DJs that I know use discs they burnt from home of cds that they have for spinning, they haven't gotten in trouble, this pretty much falls in the same category.

dj's have been using compilations for years even before the advent of computers.  They would also make cassettes to run of certain mixes they did.

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I think it does, I know this from years of being a sysadmin and in regards to software.  Again i'm comparing apples to oranges and interpeting law based on other non karaoke related laws(much like us and the karaoke companies are doing now)

A commercial entity is allowed to backup, and even run from backups so long as they have proof they legally purchased the software.  At all of the companies I worked at, we'd maintain a copy of office with a custom installer on the server along with a lot of other installers for software we used.

In the case of a KJ, and Robin Gross's interpetation, the easiest way to prove this is to just have your originals in the trunk of your car or something.

But again, i'm comparing CDG's to software, much like some karaoke companies are comparing CDG's to DVD's.  Since there is no clearly defined laws in the US stating one way or another, none of us can say for sure. My interpetation is completely biased and self serving as well.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

One of the local night clubs is a chain that pipes dj music simultaneously to all the clubs from a mainframe via highspeed inet....It wont be long before they are doing karaoke in the same fashion...

This nation is losing over 300 small farms a week to corporations and big money.... The working class pays all the bills and does all the work...I dont know anybody that is getting rich doing karaoke or dj gigs.. Will the money you get for 1 gig fill your gas tank?/ Whoever supports these corps over a struggling working slob in my opinion is a maniacal, meglomaniac with an enemic ego....

Let me give you all some advise DO NOT walk into any of my venues with your holier than thou attitude for I will give you a reality check in a heartbeat...Start dealing with real problems and solutions or fade away into a sunset totally generated by fantasy.These threads and disscussions do absolutely nothing to promote, expand, or breathe life into a dying economy or an industry which I assumed everybody loves as much as I do...I hope you dont host with these attitudes I know damn well you cant sing with them....

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Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Ok, don't anybody faint,....I agree with Toqer.

Chief

True but they are not playing them publicly.  That is the whole thing in a nutshell.  A company that backs up files are not playing them in public.  Public use and making money from it is the problem.  What other product out there allows someone to make a copy of their product to use and continue to copy as needed for less than a quarter or dime.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

do you realize...you can buy your car...modify...heck, tear it apart and rebuild it...and MAKE money from it...and you don't have to pay the dealer over...and over...and over. You buy it...it's yours.

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Took me many hours before I could come back with a 1/2 decent counterpoint

When you pay your ASCAP/BMI/SESAC you're basically paying for the right to use the music in a public performance.  You're also paying for the right to use the music in a business.  Those 3 companies are the ones that obtain the public performance rights from the labels.

Unfortunatly right now i'm typing this during a show, and i'd like to check out the big 3 licensees contracts.  Their contracts *should* supercede that of the labels, since they're the last in the chain to hand down what we can and cannot do.

I don't pay sound choice, or DKK or any other of those karaoke companies for the license to use the music in a public place, I pay Sesac/Ascap/Bmi.   So basically, they have no say in the matter.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

There is a law against taking bribe. But some people take pride in it, and even shout about it.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

You're right, taking a bribe is against thelaw, however, giving a host to get up earlier in a rotation is not a bribe according to the criminal code.  Here is the section.  If you check your laws, they will probably very close.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-46/42240.html

And again you may copy for private use only, a karaoke show is not private use.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/39673.html#rid-39796


It is very clear whether you like it or not.

And Knight you know damn well that since you have no assets the chances of going after you are small.  In fact most karaoke operators are small in the asset/cash department.  Rule number one, you don't sue someone who doesn't have a pot to
p1$$ in, it's not worth the cost.  It doesn't make what you're doing any less illegal or ethical.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

"those who live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones"

Come on Guys Gals and Inbetweens, enough of the name calling and flaming --save that for JOLT  :D  :D

Who cares if someone takes a TIP or has a duplicated copy of a cdg in their library
Who is living their lifes without any sins at all ??  Drop it PLEASE
Unless you are stated for Sainthood ----You're all full of BS

So standards as Matts subject implies .....

Music selection should include enough of the standards and TOP karaoke selections found in most starter sets.  Quality should be an average of middle road productions, YOU don't need all soundchoice --but if you have is ALL ..ALL HITS then maybe your library is BELOW standards.   Quantity--Tuff one -  At least 3500 songs suited for your particular venue ( if they like country --you need country etc)

Equipment should be PRO quality that works --Simple -- Mackie is good ..BUt hey if you're using a VOCOPRO cdg8000 and it works -- Good for you ---IT JUST HAS TO BE RELIABLE TO BE  a STANDARD.  Power again is to whatever you're venue needs --maybe you don't need 1000 watts.  Same goes for speakers --Just make sure they are quality brands that have been proven to be successful by some..not all just some

as far as rotations --- FAIR IS THE WORD == everyone does it  a little different
Tips again --if you want to take a tip to bump someone --its a business decision that effects many things ---its an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE

PS STOP THE NAME CALLING .... LETS DISCUSS HOW TO MAKE KARAOKE BETTER BY SHARING IDEAS NOT CONDEMMING THEM

as far as rotations --- FAIR IS THE WORD == everyone does it  a little different
Tips again --if you want to take a tip to bump someone --its a business decision that effects many things ---its an INDIVIDUAL CHOICE

Tips, to bump you up is only fair if it is CLEARLY STATED in your rules written somewhere in your songbook or your website.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

As far as rotation I agree. "Fair" is a must, but even maybe more so is " consistency."  Everyone does do it a little different.  I truly believe customers can tolerate "unfairness" more to a degree than a KJ who is not consistant.

Kelly

Kelly
Very GOOD POINT !!  --fair rotations and consistancy is the KEY
and exactly --ANYTHING CAN GO as long as it is in the rules for all to have the same opportunity

Here is an link that has some good information on the subject:

http://www.ipjustice.org/karaokefairuse.shtml

I made my choice 3 years ago to convert to Hard Drive and have saved hundreds of dollars in broken scratched or worn discs. I own every original and have the reciepts and discs to back it up. I have over $20,000 invested  in Cdg's and I intend on protecting that investment.

The people that I would like to see nailed are the KJ's that have turnkey systems purchased with up to 33,000 songs preloaded (you know - the ones that were banned from Ebay). They paid like $1000-$3000 for these players or computers and did not pay a cent for the music. That my friend is outright piracy. There are probably 6 systems currently running in our city that are illegal as hell and nothing can or is being done about it.

I see absolutley nothing wrong with a businessman protecting his investment.

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FlipSide Karaoke
Scott