Karaoke Forums

This is just opinion but...

The freeDB CDDB database just doesn't cut it for karaoke.  I think karaoke needs its own, free CDDB not only for naming tracks we rip, but creating songbooks as well.

We'd need a bunch of dedicated, well versed in english (engrishers need not apply) karaoke geeks to have a roundtable discussion on what is going to work well for everyone, and dedicate some time to creating a system that this group could all add/moderate/edit the DB's entries.

I think we could even get it hosted free if we kept it non profit/non commercial.  A while back on slashdot (geek site) I read about The CCCP.  Russian jokes aside it stands for The California Community Colocation project.  The goal of the organization is to provide free hosting to non profits and community projects.  I've talked to the folks running it in the past, and they're very friendly.

Anyways, I know all the geeks around here are probably as busy as I am, but i'd be more than happy to eek out a bit of time to talk to CCCP, import some databases and get some of the intial entries in if I knew others would follow with KDDB entries.

--toq

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

There is a free database... it's on kjpro and musicbookdeluxe's perspective websites.

PERFECTLY free to use online.

You should find out what the Freedb CDDB is before you comment.  I'll do my best to explain it to you.

Programs like audiograbber, winamp, and CD-EX use what is called a CDDB.  Winamp uses a for profit service called gracenote that costs them about $1500@mo for access to the database within their program.  Free projects like audiograbber and open source programs like CD-EX use the FreeDB CDDB to add functionality like automatic track ripping to their programs.

KJpro is a for profit database.  There is no API for competing programs to access the information within their database.  Same thing goes for musicbook deluxe.

What we're creating is a freeDB that is exclusive to karaoke.  Open and published API's that programs like audiograbber and CD-EX can use.  One of the major weaknesses in the FreeDB when it comes to karaoke is it's way to convoluted with information from non karaoke CD's.   We also want to make karaoke specific extensions to the CDDB protocol and service.

The database could be used for anything. Creating songbooks, renaming tracks, heuristical statistics on which CDG's are most often owned by folks out there.  It's in no way a promotion for anyones products or services.  Just a public resource for karaoke, maintained by karaoke people.

As mentioned earlier.  I got the greenlight for the project from the CCCP.  After the initial database setup, we're going to need some volunteers to help go though and clean up anything non karaoke related, and continually update the database with fresh information.

I'm going to register the domain name this week.  I still don't know exactly what name to use (FreeKDB.org?  KCDDB.org?)  I'm open to suggestions.

--toq

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Freebase.org?  LOL, no you might get other types of people.

_________________
[shadow=deepskyblue]I'm impressed, I've never met such a small mind inside such a big head before.[/shadow]

I know EXACTLY what the database you're talking about does.

There is a freeware program called AUTONAMER that hooks up with KJPro's database. It does the same thing you're talking about, except you have to purchase kjpro. Karaoke is a niche market, no matter how well saturated in some areas...

good luck on your enterprise. Sounds like a lot of work for something that already exists (alebeit a paid version), and you can use the websites for kjpro and musicbook deluxe when you do your ripping. I have audiograbber and that's what I did until I got the Autonamer program!

Well, why don't you volunteer a few hours to help fill in and cleanse some of the data then?  You'd be helping yourself (and your fellow KJ) in the long run.  

Screw KJpro.  I had a friend who got shut down by KJpro's DMCA abuse just because his program could import their databases.  One of the major reason why i'm on this warpath.  I'm surprised they haven't gone after the autonamer people yet.  They deserve to be shutdown.

Ideally, the karaoke companies would have copies of their catalogs in text delimited format somewhere on their websites.  God it would make this so much easier.

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

I second that one!  I know of one manufacturer that doesn't even list the songs in the right order - fortunately the reseller I subscribe from does usually, but double-checking is a must.

_________________
Sounds Great! Entertainment
Bartlett, Illinois

My Kj Pro Subscription I think goes to Jan 03 2006... There are rippers now that use the Kj Pro data base for auto naming... Matt uses autonamer I am currently trying Roxbox for ripping....  I started ripping cdg's in it's infancy.... I''ve literally spent years  developing a collection of popular karaoke music.   Ripping, converting mcg to cdg, ( I converted over 12000 tracks from mcg to cdg) naming, renaming, and getting rid of duplicates.. I was once looking at over 800 cdg's to rip...I would have spent $500 for a auto namer...My purchases now are mainly to keep up with the new stuff...  The few cd's I buy now THM is not a big task to rip and name... The bottle neck now is keeping the new song sheets current the hoster db current And keeping books straight,,,,

_________________
Join The Karaokle Singers Social Network. Upload Your Music!!

Great idea. I'd be happy to help out on either adding song titles or proofing discs I have. One suggestion is to create a program that runs on both windows and macs that automatically checks the disc to see if it's in the database and if it's not, give an option to enter it to database. Distribute this free to everyone who wants it.

What this will do is create a uniform format for the titles. I think it's important to establish which format the title should be stored. Just a thought.

_________________

Seize the day and SING!!!

I was thinking the same exact thing myself. I shot off an email to the freedb folks to see if they could give us a cname like

karaoke.freedb.org

but I haven't heard back from them yet.  I have a feeling i'll have to bite the bullet and just register a new domain.

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

The issue at hand is that you need to determine the mechanism to identify each disk.  Basically, you are duplicating the efforts of FreeDB/CDDB/Gracenote.  Where things get even more difficult is that occasionally discs will change even though they have the same disc number (think a disc within a package like SGB or the Foundation sets).

Why recreate the wheel?  Why not try to work with FreeDB to populate the database with karaoke disc information?  Besides, freedb relies on the public to populate the database, if you put in the karaoke disc information it will show up for everyone.

Just some thoughts.....

Good point, but..

First off, Gracenote, and freedb.org aren't really specialized in karaoke.  As mentioned in the post above dealing with "naming conventions" I haven't really seen much work done for karaoke in this area, especially on the freedb.


Second, As you were saying about disk changes, well, we're a karaoke community here.  We would actually care about data changes like that.

Third, we'd like to add some karaoke centric extensions to the freedb, such as support for other disk types (like vcd, dvd or LD).  I know getting the fingerprint of a LD is impossible, but i'm sure we can come to an agreement on how to handle these odd disks.

Fourth, getting data in is easy, i'm sure a few of our collections could use some re-ripping.  After we clean the current freedb database of things we don't need, and fix up some errors, we could all just rerip our collections using something free like audiograbber.

Finally, the only people I see out there doing this type of work are trying to profiteer from us already poor KJ's (yah, i'm poor, how about you?) I'm sick of it, i'm going to do something about it.  Heck, we all should do something about it.  Any KJ with computer skills and a basic understanding of why it needs to be done should get in there and help.

Since CCCP is willing to sponsor the project, we shouldn't look a gift horse in the mouth. We need to take this chance given to us, work together, and make it happen. Next few weeks i'll register a domain for it, and get started.

--toq

_________________
Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me