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funny as it sounds but for the MEN karaokers ---Think about it --You hand in a slip to sing --and as your singing on stage ---- Beautiful women are dancing and stripping along side you ...... Now thats were American Pie comes in handy  :D

funny as it sounds but for the MEN karaokers ---Think about it --You hand in a slip to sing --and as your singing on stage ---- Beautiful women are dancing and stripping along side you ...... Now thats were American Pie comes in handy  :D

One of the funnest times in my life was doin Baby Got Back with about 6 ladies? on stage puttin on a way better show than I was..... I think we broke 8 laws and 23 city ordinances....  :hi5:  :drunk:  :dancin:  LMAO

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All of this is stuff that should've been done through the years anyway.  

I've seen places doing the video cam of the singer before, to me it wasnt't that big of a deal & actually took eyes off of the stage area because people were watching the monitors.  I can see the video for a room that couldn't see the stage.  But VocoPro <<shudder>> does make a video mixer that will take the karaoke video & put the cam video behind it.  Some that have used say it works great, others say it only works on certain types of cdg's & nothing with a video already behind it - I can't say for sure i've never tried it personally.

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Lon
I agree that most of the suggestions mentioned should've been incorporated into every show years ago.  But since they weren't (for the most part)  I think owners and managers of bars have come to accept them as NOT being needed and therefore are happy paying for a KJ who just goes through the motion of loading up cdgs and letting some one sing. What I think needs to be done (I'll speak for my show) is I need to UP THE ANTE on what I do at my one show so the SINGERS and PATRONS walk away saying WOW WOW WOW !!!!.   This makes my show unique and therefore WORTH MORE.   Obviously it will take some more investing $$$
but should seperate my show from the $50 KJ down the block.

There are many GOOD $50 kjs out there with decent sound systems, libraries and fair rotations . I /we can't compete (or don't want to) with that.  I want to be able to ask $250- $300 for my karaoke show by making it a NOVELTY /EXCITING AND FUN FOR ALL (SINGERS AND OTHERS )  .......   AM I DREAMING?

I sincerely believe the time for high $$ for companies has long since past - at least in clubs (it should never have).  
I have used all the above in my shows for years & still got undercut with a company that didn't have anything extra - no lights, decent (but VERY duplicated & willing to bet illegal since it's a computer set-up) library, not a very good sound system & the host is very monotone.  It was in a place I worked for a couple years & was only charging them $150 per night since it was running 3 nights, they went in for $75 per night & the owner didn't think anything of it but "Hey! That's a good savings".  They let me go 1 night AFTER my show & that was that.  They did call me back after a month asking to come back but said they could only pay $100 per night as he's been finding that alot of companies were quoting him that price (nice huh?), I told them to take a hike.  They've had karaoke off & on since I left, but never gained the crowds we did, many of them went to my current club.

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 Yea Lon I think we hit that cycle here in Colorado way b4 you did...I'm retired so it didnt hurt me as much but I flat wont work for less than $175 however as a member of the VFW I do it for $100 on Fri nights.....Bars here have been closing  and selling on a regular basis, the new owners tend to pay more They are more of a business type and I do think we are on the upswing hopefully....

 One of the sad storiers here is Cactus Canyon  (chain I think)  was paying $425 nite for karaoke but tried a mediocre host and before a reg KJ could interview with them I think they gave up on karaoke and DJ only....

I was dying to hook up into their system they have 20+ jbl eons on the ceiling and a big bass bin  with  3k Crown amp I thinkkk It is awesome to say the least...

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•Stage or dance lighting to enhance the professional singer atmosphere. = We have never had stage or dance ligting, nor have we ever had a request for it.  There is no room in 2 of our shows and very bright room lights in the 3rd place.

•Dance floor areas so everyone can get involved with the singer and songs = Our longest running show has almost no room for dancing yet when the feeling strikes we do have people dancing in the aisles..

•Games and Giveaways to  keep non singers and those waiting to sing involved = We have never had any games, we have had a few drawings and I was lucky in getting a bunch of glow sticks so at the show Richard and I do that is pretty frequent.

•KJ’s with more of a varied routine and not the same old same old chatter, introductions Good job! , Way to go! How about a hand for! = Hmm, of course we try to change up what we say, however, I think it's more important to be genuine... There's a big difference between saying - Dena you're on deck and Frank you're in the hole and imparting a genuine friendliness and happy anticipation of Dena & Frank's singing..  A joke or two never hurts either :)

•NO DEAD AIR! Keep some type of music going at all times = I personally don't like filler music; as a singer or a KJ

Another Idea … Most venues nowadays have multiple monitors, some are for TV some are used for additional Karaoke lyrics.  What about showing the singer on ½ of the TV’s.  I think most singers would love to see themselves on the “big screen”   I know there is equipment out there that allows the graphics/lyrics to be shown with a video feed of the singer.  ANYONE USING OR BEEN TO PLACES THAT DO THIS??? We were at one of our customer's venue and they had shots of us on a big screen behind & in front of us...  For those of us who don't photograph well YUCK!!  I can see where some might like it tho, this is something I might look into.

I guess I'm a karaoke purist..  Give me a FRIENDLY KJ & FRIENDLY crowd, good song selection, good sound,  & I'll put up with a crowded hole in the wall with no dance floor, no special videos and even a bad pour!!  I'm not saying that we'll never use some of the things discussed as many of them sound like wonderful bonuses, it may just take some time and like I've heard time and again "If it isn't broken, don't fix it."  

However, like it has been said before...  Keep the ideas flowing!


Susie

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Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

The day of the $300 karaoke night may indeed be long gone, but I believe only because we (KJ’s & singers) allowed it to go.  There are no more KARAOKE ONLY venues out there if there are… very few of them and there the ones paying KJ’s - $75-$125 per night.

Today bars, clubs and restaurants can’t afford to pay $300 per night for KARAOKE only.
There are many other patrons in these places that have to be thought of.  Pool Players, Dart Players, Trivia Game Junkies, and Dancers, sports watchers, lovers and first daters.  

If you’re a KJ who can satisfy all the people –You can make more money.
Obviously a KJ must consider the SINGERS first and foremost. But not exclusively
The shear calculation of –How Many singers can sing (and be satisfied) x time allotted to sing x money spent - Can’t and won’t carry the venue for the night. (Maybe at $75 it will)

So look for BIGGER venues and OFFER MORE SERVICES.  Adapt and conquer is my new motto!.   Karaoke is a passion but KJ’ing is a business.  Look around   Painters don’t just paint anymore they wall paper too  lol.

I agree with what was said about a KJ drinking on the job. There's to much important (@$%&#!) to do that requires your full undivided attention.  Not to mention, getting drunk makes you give a (@$%&#!) less, so you take less care of your customers.

You just can't keep a rotation straight or run a show straight if you're bent.

This is a two sided coin though.   Someone needs to be drunk in order to be "in tune" with the crowd.  

My solution was to take the funniest singer out of my regulars and give him a job.  I still do ticket entry, work the computer, sound, burn VCD's and take care of bribes/bumps, etc.   He gets to get drunk and insult everyone that comes on stage.

Also, since i'm married, I can live vicariously through him while he sluts it up with the girls. It works out very well.

As far as piracy killing us.  Yah, it's a big problem.  I have 2 customers that bring in burned CDG's every night, and another one that just brings his stuff on USB keychain.  It's not my job to be "piracy police" though, I can't prove or disprove if they made these from legitimate copies or not, so I just give them play.

As far as making money.  Make sure your crowd knows that's what you're there for.  If someone offers you a $20 to go next, don't let your rotation morals get in the way of that Andrew Jackson.  If one of your customers complain about being bumped down because of a bribe, take out that $20 bill and tell them "Look, i'd be stupid not to take this wouldn't I?"  I also throw in I have a mortgage to pay, and 9 out of 10 times they'll understand and wait through the 1 extra song.

Legal issues aside I just started burning VCD's of performances for customers this last week.  I sold 30 VCD between Thursday and Saturday for $5 each.  Since I use some shoutcast/nullsoft video technology in my show, each singers video is automatically cut and saved to a file with their name and song name on it.  It's almost like an automated video editing system.  I don't feel like going into detail on how it's done right now (don't want to hijack this thread) but if anyone is interested in how I do it, i'd be more than happy to put it in a new thread.

KJ's can make at least, i'm saying minimum $150 @ night if they know how to work the show.  I get paid $60@night, but I manage to squeeze out an extra $100 in tips.  It's not as easy as getting a $150 salary, but it can be done.

--toq

Not that I would ever be in your neck of the woods anyway - so this isn't going to matter to you, but if I ever was, I would avoid THIS show at all costs.  Completely UNPROFESSIONAL to take "bribes" to "bump" someone up.  I'm not going to compromise my integrity to the rest of the singers to line my pocket for one A-hole that wants to sing next.  Yeah they may wait one more song, but chances are you've lost more customers than you want to believe.

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Well we're in disagreement on what is and isn't professional.

For my customers with deep pockets that like to act like bigshots, it's very professional. It's catering to their need to be "in charge" so to speak.

As far as losing customers, nope, my regulars completely understand it.  If someone REALLY has a problem with it, I offer to split the $20 with them (Hey I wouldn't mind getting $10 cause I have to wait an extra song)

Not to mention i've been in The New York Times and have won best karaoke in our local magazines. This isn't in some hicktown, this is in San Jose California/San Francisco Bay area.  I know what i'm doing.  

My concept of the playlist and rotation is best compared to television advertising.  You want prime time superbowl advertising?  You're going to pay for it.  You don't like the fact someone else outbid you on a timeslot? Tough (@$%&#!).  

You may not agree that bribes are "moral" but saying that i'm unprofessional is a flame.  The topic for this thread is "Re-inventing the karaoke wheel"  I gave my suggestion and who are you to tell me it's crap?

I'm calling you a square for calling me unprofessional.

You call me whatever you like!  I call it as I see it!  You want to SINK to "name calling", that right there shows your overall mentality.  I used to get that back in grade school!



Yes this topic IS for re-inventing the wheel not taking a step downward!

I do believe you will get more people thinking along the lines of mine rather than yours.

The internet TV thing is an interesting concept which would have fit better into this thread over bumping for $$.

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there are plenty of KJ's who subscribe to that line of thinking Lonman... not taking bribes seems to be the exception and not the rule anymore...  if it works for him in his club then great... for some of us, it is not our cup of tea and would like to see it fall to the wayside, but just because we don't subscribe to a particular viewpoint, or policy, doesn't make it any less acceptable in HIS club... there are many KJ's, many on this board even, who are against PC rigs (legal or illegal), burned disks, backup copies, customer's disks, mix music, downloading mp3+g's etc but it doesn't make them wrong or right- just how they prefer to run THEIR business... many KJ's have been exposed to new experiences, ideas, concepts, policies and input from an exchange of information on this board... toqer's input of how he run's HIS shows may be valuable to others who are looking for alternative ways to spicen up their shows or add new policies to it... there is simply no WRONG way to run a show if customers put up with it... is it how you or I would do it? maybe not, but allowing the comparisons of different shows (whether we agree or not with how they do it) is how many shows continue to grow and not stagnate and fall to the wayside... just a thought... - tig

Thought taken!

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This goes beyond the discussion of karaoke. Taking bribes is wrong period!  I don't care what kind of a business you're in.  What it does though, is that it tells me the type of person someone is.  People who take bribes are no different than the sleazy congress people who do the same thing with our tax monies.  And we wonder what's wrong with this world,..let alone karaoke.

my 2 cents. (And I don't expect anything in return.)

Kelly

Hey you started it with calling me unprofessional, we're even now so get over it.

And I still don't know what you're concept is on re-inventing the wheel.  I'll read over the previous posts to find out, but overall I think that.

A. We should all start charging $1 per song.  It's not a foriegn concept to anyone who's ever been in an arcade, rented a video, or gotten drinks at a bar.  You pay to play, there's nothing amoral about it.  

B. More KJ's need to start taking bribes.  Don't apply a bribe on a overal basis on their entered songs.  Let them know "This is for that song, not all of them" Show them your playlist so they can see how many people they're cutting in front of.

C. Make sure you have a "If you payed for it, we play it" policy.  If you're charging a customer $1 @ song, you better make sure it's going to get played sometime in the night.

My regulars laugh at all the folks that bribe like bigshots, and they're happy for me.  They don't mind the 3-4 bigshots a night giving me $60-80 in bribes.  What is that, maybe an extra 5 minutes they have to wait?  They're there till closing.

D. Another thing that helps is our karaoke software AKDJ (which everyone is welcome to use for free)  It takes care of rotation for me.  No more spreadsheets, wheels, quiji boards or magical hocus pocus.  Part of the reason we gave it out for free was we wanted our singing customers to try it (so they could understand how it handles rotation)

AKDJ strays from conventional karaoke rotation (add new singers at the end of rotation, make them wait through current round) Instead we add new singers at the beginning of the playlist, so 2nd-3rd time singers have to wait for the crop of new singers to finish.  There are conditions within AKDJ that won't always allow a new singer to bump ahead of a 2nd-3rd timer though such as the length of the playlist , how long their next song has been waiting in the playlist, and finally a fractional lock on where a new entry will land when entered into the playlist.  We call this "Dynamic Que Locking", "Maximum customer wait time", and finally "Relative Que Lock". These are not wishy washy terms I just made up, these are real world, real tested things that can be done to karaoke rotation to improve general customer happiness. If they know that the rotation is constantly being examined by a computer, then they know the chances of them being "left out" are greatly reduced.



Why did we design it like this?  This is how 7 Bamboo ran their shows for years.  I tried running it traditional style when I first started and the owner yelled at me.  

One of the biggest problems i've found is the paranoia from customers that the KJ is out to get them, purposely bump them down in rotation, etc.  My goal is to pit the customers against each other.

In a few months we'll be adding a "frontend" for AKDJ.  It will be a simple computer connected over a network to the KJ computer with a bar code scanner on it that customers will be able to enter their tickets in themselves with no KJ interaction required. Since all tickets will be printed with unique bar codes, they can only be used once.

One of the planned features will be an e-bay type bribing system.  Customers will be able to bump their next song up one position simply by scanning in a ticket(instead of using it to enter a new song).  If they're only allowed to bribe up their next song, the penalty for bribing will be

A.  They have to wait longer for the song following their next song.
B. If they bribe that following song,  it will cost them the cost of the ticket times the number of songs in that rotation since it is lower on the playlist.

Now you're pitting your customers against each other and attatching a small monetary penalty to what they do, they start to understand there is consequence to their actions.  I run that kind of bribe system manually now, but when it's %100 automated, it's really going to change things.  

I'm sure you do a good job Lon, but the only thing I would ever call anyone unprofessional for is piracy, non licensing, or forcing singers to be your captive audience while you hog the stage. I just don't see how bribes are unprofessional, it's bidding on a premium time slot.

I don't disagree Kelly but it IS accepted in too many clubs too often... if singers are willing to stay in a club that has a host that allows it then they have no room to complain... as long as there are singers who will put up with activity like that and not do, or say, anything to management about it then it won't stop or go away... if enough singers walk out of a show and TELL the management WHY they are taking their money elsewhere, there is a better chance to change the practice... - tig

nice post toqer... the concept and software is definitely a reinvention which is what this thread started as... is it how I would run a show??? not necessarily but that isn't the point is it??? if it works in your market and your club then it obviously has value and legitimacy in this discussion... maybe it will start others thinking about pieces they may use in their show or a variation that meets their personal morals/ethics/policies... on a side note- bartenders and waitresses work damn hard and deserve their tip (or bribe) and you better believe that the better a tipper is, the better the service!  Are they sleazy now too???

I just wanted to add an example playlist of how a briber screws themselves.  Lets say we have a playlist where each singer has put in 3 songs each.

bob
frank
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy
bob
frank
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy
bob
frank
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy

Right now the customer has to wait 7 songs before their next time on deck.  Bobs a bigshot and wants to sing twice in a row, drops $20 in your tipjar and demands it.  Ok Bob i'll give you what you want.

bob
bob
frank
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy
frank  <Bobs song would have been here.
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy
bob <Now he has to wait 13 songs instead of 8.
frank
bill
anne
danny
dave
freddy

If bob decides to sing 3 times in a row, you're $40 richer and he's waiting 19 songs till his next time on deck.

By now 1 or 2 regulars are asking "Why does he get to sing 3 times?"  Heck, you're $40 richer, explain why and offer to buy them a drink or just explain the consequence bob now has and you can both laugh at what an idiot he is.

My management gets bribed from customers as well.  We've had customers come to the door at 1:45 after we close karaoke begging me to let them sing for $100 bill.  I explain it's my bosses decision.  Sayoko is a wise old woman and will usually split those kinds of bribes with her 50/50.  We make no qualms about it, there's no secret, we take and encorage bribes.