Karaoke Forums

Just Waiting for "It's a Wonderful Life" to chime in at this point

Steve ...Remember Pilgrim State?

Hey Michael,  sure do  :)    btw Michael, Regarding a question you brought up in a different thread about payscale, you mentioned a pretty interesting point. Would there be a correlation between household median income average in a given area and what bar owners would likely need to pay their entertainment in that area ? or just bar revenue, with a very indirect correlation ?  Here's why I ask. I think the Eagleville, King of Prussia outskirts of Philly have a median household income average of roughly 60-70K. I believe that's where Twient said he is. In the area of CT I'm at, the median income average is considerably higher, thing is, bar's pay their KJ's around here only around what others have stated. Maybe about $150-$200 tops a night.  This is a pretty affluent area too.  Noone get's $350 for 4 hours around here, even at the local Marriott, or hotel lounges.  That's close to $90/hour. (Noone I know of that is). I seriously doubt I could get that with a four piece band around here these days. Bar's just aren't doing as well as they were years back. Alot of laws in affect that are counterproductive to their success. Alcohol sales isn't near what it used to be, when they raised the drinking age to 21, that also cut back on revenue in this area. Now the clean-air act in NY & CT. Alot of other things as well.  When business drops back, entertainment payout gets cut back.  I suppose in a tourist area, or larger city entertainment can do quite well, but in suburbs ?

There may be a correlation between what a KJ earned and cost of living in that  general locality.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

Makes sense Badsinger. Perhaps if individuals have more disposable income for luxurious activities, and recreation bar's will have more revenue.  I never gave this any thought. Obviously I still haven't..hehe

 

Remember this one;

“I wrestled with reality for 40 years and I am happy to state that I won out over it”

“Einstein has overcome time and space. Harvey has overcome time, space and objection”

added in:

 Twient, I don't mean to sound disrespectful to you.  Here's my point.  There are certain aspects of human nature we just aren't going to change, although I agree it would be nice to clean certain area's up abit if it were in fact possible, even so, there'd still always be these exceptions. Especially if your boss pays that amount which is high end pay.  You stated that although this girl has a reputation for this type of behaviour, (even though you had some sort've encounter with her in the past), that this time "You were told" by someone that overheard part of a conversation certain things. I also assume you've only had this job since September 9th, and I'm basing this upon your post where we discussed "ground loop" hum.  You stated "last night was my first night at a new place".  Do you really know this bar owner well ?   Do you know that he wasn't starting a bidding type war ? Questioning her ?  etc ?    I know MANY bar owners that are notorious for doing this type thing. After-all these are businessmen; If he can save $100, he's going to want to. He likely *IS* interested in what she can offer him. If you were the bar owner wouldn't you be ?  After all, you've only been there Fridays, and for abit over a month.. Why is it unlikely that this was an informal interview he initiated ? A little over a year ago, I was at a bar in a town near where I live.  The "KJ" (who I think he stated he paid about $80 a night for friday and saturday nights) was supposedly a "good friend" of this bar owner (so the KJ thought).  The bar owner approached me asking if I could throw together a group for a "Blues venue" saturday nights, he was willing to pay me considerably more than he was currently paying "his friend". He also asked that I NOT tell the KJ anything about our conversation.  I turned it down, wasn't interested.

While you have the luxury of waiting out work (since "you DON'T NEED the work");  Hanging onto these bar jobs for any duration that would give you some POMG, or enable you to feel that this is "a steady gig" likely isn't as easy at $350/ 4 hours. Do you really think you could get that type gig for a year or more  at a bar ?
This might be a transient position.

Actually, I do know the owner.  He is the uncle of a good friend of mine.  He only told me when I asked him about it, and told me not to worry about it.  The other place where she tried that verified that she did it.  Actually, DJs get more in this area.  I think in NY city, it's even crazier.  Disposable income, like the other person said.  I have got that price every time I have asked for it.  Anyway, this bar owner doesn't really have it in him.  Trust me on that.  He renovated the place next to his restaurant in a shopping center, and knows very little about the bar business (as far as the entertainment aspects).  I have advised him on a few things, even recommending another KJ for Saturdays.  I do weddings Saturday, so I only stick to Fridays for karaoke.  I have endorsed and supported other entertainers in the past.  I usually get along fine with them.  I could care less what they make or how often they work.  I figure if you're good, you'll get work.  The thing is, the person I was talking about IS pretty good, which is why i don't understand the behavior.  Other KJs I talk to usually roll their eyes when I mention her name, so it's not just me.

This also don't mean alot in reality.  I knew a kj that lost a gig in a bar that his brother owned (these 2 are very close) because of an undercutter.  It was a business decision made from the bar owner - although it didn't help the family relations for a while, it's better now.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

See what I mean?  Weasels all around!  Well, I'm not worried.  They get their money's worth out of me.  Like I said, I've had other KJs in the places I KJ (remember, I only do one night), even promoted them, and they couldn't get the people I do.  I would just take my act elsewhere if someone undercut me.  Hell, people undercut me in weddings all the time.  It's just a matter of what are they shopping for?  The lowest price or quality (and ROI)?

NOBODY is non-replaceable - including yourself, i'm sorry!  If a bar owner, no matter who it may be, feels they need to save a few bucks in an area, the FIRST place they will look at is the entertainment.  I don't care if you are the best in the state - i've seen some of the best in my area go down that had the same thinking as you.  Because they wouldn't go lower in their pricing, many have either adapted or went under altogether.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Just out of Curiosity list you equipment.

$350 is reasonable in this area...not sure if you all have heard of the Main Line area near Philly, but there is a lot of money in these parts...besides, if I ever did get replaced, I'd be content to sit at home on the couch and take the Friday night weddings as they come...again, I do it for fun...I have no wife and kids to support (don't want any either), and I have a great day job and career...if someone replaced me, so be it...if I found out they did it unethically (by my definition), hell, I'd have half a mind to uncut them at all their other places...nah, too much time and effort...anyway, why worry about getting replaced?  Why worry about anything, really?  Just do your best and let the chips fall where they may.  I'm not sure why everyone is jumping on me on this issue.

Then again, hell, I have enough money and collateral, I may just do what a karaoke friend of mine did and buy a bar and do it myself...then I wouldn't have to pay a dime for the entertainment...weeeee!

According to to a few people my daytime job's sales and marketing department, they never engage in badmouthing the competition.  I was told in effect, it makes our company look bad.  I don't know, these are people who went to college for this stuff, and oversaw outstanding growth in the company each of the 14 years I have been here.  Think about people you know.  I personally avoid people who gossip about others.  I tend to think negative of them, like they are tearing someone else down to bring them to their level.  Plus, if you do any research, most sites say the same thing.  I could be wrong.  Hey, there are two things people shop for...price and quality...my daytime company's product is certainly not cheap, so they have to rely on quality.  I don't think they worry about bottom feeders.  I consider myself to be a quality host (as do many others).  I ask a certain price, and I get it.  I have been getting the same price for years.  If someone wants to charge less than I do, so be it.  I sure hope for the bar's sake, they bring in the people I do.  Now if someone can do that, then they should command more money.  I have NEVER had someone complain about what I charge.  I live in a well-to-do area to begin with.  If I get replaced, so what?  I have confidence I can get another gig at the same price.  If not, it is a waste of my time.  I'll just stick to weddings.  As for jealous people who gossip and badmouth, I have no time for them, personally.  Maybe some do, I don't.  My nephew married into Comcast money.  He lives in a friggin mansion.  Do I badmouth him?  Well, yeah, but that's beside the point.

http://www.moldmakingtechnology.com/art ... 30510.html

http://www.cleanlink.com/sm/article.asp?id=2149

http://www.trendlines.com/competition.asp

While I'm thinking about it, there are some DJs out there who charge $1500 and a lot more for weddings.  Me, personally, I would never pay that much.  A lot of them get that much because of equipment, presentation, customers service and preparation.  I put a lot of effort into my karaoke shows.  I could make more by accepting every Friday night wedding that comes along, but I like karaoke more.

Well that is certainly understandable !   Thank your higher power that it was only your nephew who did this to you.  This type disease was brought into my family by my own sister !  It affects all exposed to it too.


I too had to admit to being powerless over the illness of an individual my sister married that affected those of us who became victims of his excessive indulgence, that had to deal with the ineffable helpless emotion that accompanies exposure to ongoing obstreperous opulency. The exposure to such an unacceptable lifestyle soon led to my own paucity of individual worth; Family get togethers soon became unmanageable as well. I came to believe that although profoundly affected by the inexplicable behaviour of my brother-in-law, it was something I had no control over. The insidious nature of his illness started to affect those of us around him. I'm still waiting for both my sister, and brother-in-law to make amends.

Do you have support groups for affected relatives in your area ?

I was only kidding.

I wholeheartedly disagree %100.  

If you're job focus is "Mememe" and not the venue venue venue, you are very easily replaced by some $50@night kid with a laptop of pirated songs and not much else.

On the other hand, if you make yourself an invaluable asset to the venue (help with creating a community I.E. website, work your butt off, show up early) they'll feel that they're getting more than their moneys worth, especially if they've had several KJ's over the last few years.

The trick is having such a profound impact on the amount of cash you being there generates that it would be business suicide for them to fire you.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me

Well, that's me.  They've already seen what their other entertainment, including KJs, have done.

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The point that most are making is that they ARE doing this... but the management doesn't give a hoot nor hair about karaoke. It's a means to an end: MONEY.

SOME management folks are quite smart about it... they see WHO and what's drawing the people out. Heck, I've had complaints just when I've had filler karaoke jocks come in... it's my show, and the regs expect me. Same songs, same sound equipment, but different rotation philosophies (minor, but noticable), and other tiny things that are too much trouble to mention. Just the differences between hosts! It's complimentary as all get out, but it's also a pain in the watoosie, as people OCCASSIONALLY would like to go to a VACATION! Take a break! heheheh

Now I've had a couple of lowlifes come in and try to steal my show, and believe me, I'm not making a lot, either. It helps that the owner and I have a good agreement, and I won't screw him, and he won't screw me. It's worked now for our third year... and as long as I continue to put out the effort, I suspect I'll be there until the $50 guys make it impossible to get a gig for less, no matter my qualifications!

Ultimately, most venues will cave into this nonsense, and the quality of the shows will suffer. No matter... to these tight asses, it's "ALL karaoke"... and that will be the doom cry of our collective!

But again, if you create a community and are in control of it, you are not replacable.

I pay for everything on the 7 Bamboo website, streaming video and equipment costs aside, running the community website is very very cheap.

Part of my contract with 7 Bamboo is because I pay for the web stuff, I own it.  If they fire me, they have no legal grounds on which to demand I relinquish the domain or the content of the site.

If I was fired tomorrow, there would be a huge outpouring of support from our patrons.  Not to mention, i'd probably just shut the site down to spite them.  Luckily I don't think it will ever come to that, my bosses appriciate the work and know what would happen if they crossed me.

I don't think my skills in computers gives me much of an advantage over any other KJ though.  Like I keep hinting to everyone, webguru could probably host a forum/website/domain for your venue for like $15@month.  If someone else can set it up for you, then my skills have no advantage over anyone else.

You can be irreplacable.  You just have to set things up so you are.

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Living my life as Robert Cortese, 162 E. Jackson St, San Jose CA.

It's like the difference between high and low budget toilet paper, it really doesn't matter in the end. -exweedfarmer

Which is smarter? Just sticking to making/selling karaoke, while people all over the world create software FOR FREE that helps you sell it, or trying to compete with them and keeping it a closed loop while you blow your money into an industry (software) that you(the karaoke manu) knows nothing about?
-me