Karaoke Forums

I was wondering after doing a small gig this Friday about being able to setup FAR AWAY from the singers -Ideally in front or to the side of the singers and speakers.

Usually I'm forced due to space & WIRING  to set up in very close proximity of the singers etc.
How many are set up in FRONT OF  and far away from your speakers and singers ?

What would I need to accomplish this ?  I looked at longer MIC cables ?  But do 50-100ft mic cables lose anything?  I've looked at mic SNAKES but they seem nice but pricey.   WHat about the RCA video cable from my player to my TV -The longest I've seen at Ratschack is 20ft ?   I'm assuming most are using RCA and not coaxial cable for video ?  What would I need to reach 50ft etc?

I believe being able to set up front would allow me to better continously mix the
sound  mix and effects etc.  Is there something I'm missing that would make this set up UNFAVORABLE?

As always your expert opinions are welcome

You can buy 30' - 50' 8 channel snakes for pretty cheap.  Cheap snakes.

As far as video I use coax, but with the snake, all you would need is an RCA to XLR adapter & one back into RCA & use the snake for the video signal as well.

If I have the room to do it, I will always opt to be out in front.  Can mix the mains & know how it sounds instantly, no running out in front, going back readjust, run back in front....etc.  
Advantages:
It helps keeps people away from stage while others are singing - as far as bringing up slips & the loud talking that tends to happen while they are asking about songs or do you know how so & so goes, etc...
Sound mixing factor.
Disadvantages:
You don't have "as much" control if someone starts to get out of control - you have to leave your area & to get on the stage.  
Some people like the "security blanket" of the host being right next to you.

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Lon,
That's a great price for  the 50ft snake - The ones I saw were all over $150.
And I would never ever think of converting the RCA to XLR and then back.
I never knew that would be possible.  :oh yeah:  So it seems for a relatively small amount of money $95 I could move my entire set up--- 50 ft .

Thats great information !

You wouldn't even have to get an adapter come to think of it.  They make RCA-XLR cords.  Less connections the better.  Only downside would be the possibility for video interference, but i've used this method many times & never had a problem.

You can probably find them elsewhere, this was just one place I go through on occasion.

http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?c ... &sku=40047
http://www.cablestogo.com/product.asp?c ... &sku=40052

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Using these I could run everything thru the snake?  -  As far as regular electrical supply  just a long extemsion cord will do ?  DO they make any type of snakes that would include electric ? or would that interfere too much...

Well everything that doesn't require high current - such as speaker runs & definately no electric sources.  No snakes that I know of that include electrical - yes chances are there would be major electrical interference in the audio signal if there was.
Snakes are in general just a long group of extensions for low voltage audio signals ie mics, mixer sends (for monitors), audio signals, but will run a video signal as RCA video cable is nothing more than a standard 2 conductor shielded cord.

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Thanks again -  I think I'm eventually going to go this route.  
It seems like a snake would also eliminate anyone tripping over a loss mic cords that runs across or from behind  the singer.   For electric extension cords are all I need.

Of course you could just opt to jump to wireless mics, and video sender.

For video something like this:
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?c ... id=15-2572

And a decent wireless mics can be had for $99.
http://www.radioshack.com/product.asp?c ... id=32-1253

Yes, a snake is a much more professional way to handle it but if you want to cut the cord so to speak there are some options...

And you can always pick up power from an outlet that's closer to the location of the equipment over running it from the back.

I have a problem with wirless mics -  You can't go cheap if you want decent sound and I refuse to use expensive wireless for fear of them being slammed dunk at the end of a song or being passed around the bar to end up in someones beer mug.
Just past experiences !!!  -  

I did consider a dual wireless set up that many use and its not too expensive and I heard it has a great sound and quality Its just the fear of getting them broken from some intoxicated singer that keeps me from going wireless.

The VIDEO signal is interesting but not too sure of the interferance issues.

I will look into that a little bit more

The wireless video works ok.  It HAS to be unobstructed line of sight though - at least on the unit that I had - which wasn't this particular model, so i'm going on past experience.  Although when above the crowd & in direct line - it did work great, no more cords to hook up.  I bought extra recievers for each club & just left them hooked up with an A/B switch.

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I bought a pair of wireless VHF mics off eBay for $19.  They were CRAP!  They cut out and were generally useless.

The Audio Technica I have is excellent.  Good response, no problems with interference once adjusted (and I work in a VERY noisy environment).  I've used it a couple of times without any issues at all.  If you prefer though - Nady has a UHF unit that's pretty inexpensive (UHF -3 at $99 IIRC).

Wireless means dropping about $100 a mic for a quality unit that's acceptable for 99% of the people out there and likely more.  If you go to $150-$170 for the mic and reciever you can get even better equipment that has diversity antennas for even better reception.  Keep in mind these aren't the 900MHz Radio Shack mics.  They're quality mics with good sound.  And at $100 they are easily replaceable.

I'll be picking up one of the video units I mentioned shortly.  I'll let you know how well it works - including trying to send from one room to another in the noisy environment I work in.  I'll post when I get time to do the testing.  I'm looking to go 100% wireless in the near future.  I'm even considering using something like this:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--AKGWMS40DVSO
to push the music from my mixer to powered speakers.  I'd attach the reciever to the speaker and plug the Snapon XLR connector into my mixer.  In the end I can set up anywhere in the room, put the singers anywhere, and I just have to get power to each of them!

Yes, I'll have to drop some coin to do it but if it works it would be pretty damn sweet to be able to just set up my rack and plug it in.  Set up a couple powered speakers and plug in the power.  Set up a TV on a stand, hook up the power and drop the mics into the holders.  Set up for a mobile show could take just about 10 minutes overall - not counting a sound check.

BTW, the system I mentioned above would work if you want to keep your existing mics as well and just turn them into wireless.

Meister
I do have one of the audiotechnica $99 mics and as you say IT does work great.
I mainly us it for announcements and as a 3rd singer mic when the infamous groups come up.  IDEALY I would love to rack a dual wireless set up and take my chances with damages. The area alloted for me at the last steady bar I worked at didn't really allow me to RACK MY equipment so I had to take everything out of the rack and set up indivual componenets on this narrow ledge.  As soon as I land a steady gig I'll know better if I can rack my set up again.  unfortunatley it looks like I might be back at my old gig (they jusy miss me there).  Eventually once I get all my cdgs into my hard drive I'll have some more set up room without cases of cd's and cdg's.

Lon--The video signal line of sight has me worried - At least at this one bar everything would be floor level with people in between the "stage area" and the mixing area so I'm not sure if that would work too good.  

At least at first I think I'm going to try the WIRED set up with the snake and cables

First I want to book a steady gig again  :D  I think once school starts this bar will look to get back in the older  Karaoke Crowd again ...  

Thanks Guys for all your input

my recent wireless microphone set I received from karaoke.com is a dream!

Audiostream 990s.

Only problem is, I can't find it anywhere on the net! !

Don't get the ASA-890s. They are good, but the 990s are MILES above those!

Why is everyone afraid to buy decent microphones?

I have never had anything bad happen to any of mine.
For my microphone I use the EW135 by Sennheiser $500 each I have 2
and the Shure 58 UHF for my singers $400 I have 2 also.

A good microphone makes a world of a difference, it almost defeates the purpose of having a good system.

At least I suggests that all karoke should have wirless mics or at least one for singers to be able to moves around.

Mics don't have to be really expensive but should be UHF and most over $250 have a decent capsule on them

The only mics that have ever died on me was a cheap Peavey I had.  My 3 SM58's have been used, abused, dropped, once slammed & they have been in service since 94 & still sound great.  I replace the ball on them every few months.
Don't use wireless anymore as I had one walk out the door, nobody even realized it, he was singing, working the room, the next thing we knew was some interference & the car door.

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Liquid, I have tried all types of mics, and I'm tellin' ya, the Audiostream 990s are the best I've ever tried FOR THE MONEY. $200 for a dual set wasn't HALF bad!!

And I'm not having a drunk possibly ruining my show by killing a $400 mic! !

Very common problem over here,where people sing from the table and the mic move from one table to the next. The disappearance act happen more after the duet.
Beer mug being used as a mic holder is another problem. and lastly at the end of the night the sm58 become a cheap china made mic.
People here but/replaced mic very often because of this.

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Matt
The audiostream 990s are that good?   I had the older set and although I liked them
they were all plastic and ended up cracking and going the way of the trash.
I've heard many good things about  the newer 990's.  - Are they discontinued?

NO way I'm handing out $1800 in microphones to people who have been drinking all night.  Having good quality equipment for Karaoke is a must - But there are limits to the cost of doing business. Unless your shows pulls in $500 per night and your show is a more UPSCALE big city show.   Good quality wireless can be had for $200.

When it come to karaoke and dealing with drunk people I tend to think 'middle of the road' for most of my 'breakable' equipment.  What goes in my rack should be professional quality - it for the most part, it is.  What I hand a drunk to sing into, drop, or throw around should be good enough to handle the stress, but cheap enough that if it gets dropped, etc I'm not working 3 weeks to make up the cost of the mic.

BTW, I'm looking at Sennheiser G2's for micing the wedding party during the ceremony when I DJ.  It's not that I won't buy quality equipment, just that I don't want a drunk guy handling a $500 mic!  For what it's worth, I'd rather hand him one of the cheap plastic mics that came with one of my karaoke players than even one of my Fender P-51's (and they're only $50 each!).

Jam,

The mics ARE that good. MILES above what the 890s were.

Better reception. detachable antennas (I had an end break off one of them, wasn't paying attention to what I was doing. So I went to ratshack and bought a normal antenna that extends... and unscrewed the attachment on it, and attached it in place of my broken extendor section. I could have used the normal one I bought, but it wasn't the right model that went at a right angle!), recessed microphone knobs for the turning, and the microphones themselves are just awesome. But what sold me was the receiving unit!

These mics are much more sturdier, have a twist off case for the batteries (rather than the snap ones the 890s had), and a mute switch on the mics. NOW, having said that, I personally LIKE them, but can see if you don't train your audience correctly, they will be flippin' switches, and next thing you know, they're giving you a dirty look when the mic stops transmitting!