Karaoke Forums

Hello all.  I've been reading through this forum and it looks like a good place to come for info.  I want to get into the business, but have no clue on what equipment I need.  I want to go the computer route for the player.  Can I get some recommendations on equipment such as amp, mixer, wireless mics, software, and speakers?  I'm only going to do some small clubs (VFW, Eagles) and small bar shows and things like that.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
John

Well ,you know what they say about opinions.  In general, your best bet is to stay clear of most items that were designed or made expressively for karaoke.  This is especially true for speakers.  Go with professional grade equipment and buy the best quality your budget will allow.  I have said it before, but it is wasteful to buy something because it is cheaper and then upgrade it in a few short months.  If you know that brand "X" is not in the league of brand "Y" but costs half as much save up.   Chances are that if you stick with the respected professional names you will be happy.  If you want a board with built in effects, Mackie and Yamaha are good choicess.  I am not a big fan of the box type mixer amps as they are not rack mountable and tend to be awkward to use.  If you are going pro, rack mountable gear is the way to go.  If you are using amps and passive speakers, resist the urge to buy a rack that will house all your gear.  It will be a bear to transport.  Consider powered speakers as a means of reducing weight in your rack.

I also believe that a BBE sonic maximizer helps to enhance the overall sound of the system.  I find that it is most effective at the end of the signal chain before the amp.  Avoid budget VHF cordless microphones.  If the price seems to good to be true, it is.  Always use XLR inputs on your board for the microphones.  Established brands for microphones include Shure, Sennheiser, Audio Technica, Samson, etc.  I am not the biggest fan of the SM58, but it is a durable microphone that performs well.

My current set up is as follows:

Mackie CFX12 Mixer
Numark CDN25G Player
BBE 882i Sonic Maximizer
Mackie SRM450 powered speakers
Audio 2000s key changer
JVC Triple player (back-up)
Furman Power Conditioner
Sennheiser Evolution wireless mic
Shure SM58 & Audio Technica corded mics
Rat Shack RF Modulator
Gator mixer combo Rack with "pop-up" top

Cheers

The most important thing is to be honest with yourself first and foremost.  If you will only be playing a small venue and don't plan on playing anything larger for at least a year you can skimp to get started but remember you will be paying more in the long run.  Make sure that you BUY EQUIPMENT THAT YOU WILL ALWAYS BE ABLE TO USE IN ONE WAY OR ANOTHER!!!  What do I mean?  I started with a Fender PD-250 all-in-one setup.  It works well for small venues and has great sound I've never had to turn it up more than halfway EVER.  It lacks bass and a lot of flexibility but for most small venues it will be more than acceptable.  As I upgraded I now use it for small shows occasionally, as monitors, and most recently as an extension of the 'main' PA to cover the dining room during the dinner portion of the wedding.  I've since upgraded but can still use what I've invested in.

My first mixer on the other hand was not such a good purchase.  I bought a Soundcraft Compact 10 Mixer that's great for everything EXCEPT live music.  I use it for recording at home, etc and it works wonderfully if all your effects are done on a DAW (Digital Audio Workstation).  But with external effects you're hosed as there isn't any aux/send return to support it.  I still use it at home a little but it will likely sit on the shelf most of the time and was an unwise purchase at the time.  I must admit I like the fact it handles 6 stereo inputs though!

With my recent foray into more and more equipment I can tell you there are ways to cut corners a little.  I bought Audio Technica VHF Wireless mics at Radio Shack and it works great.  I also have a Nady URR-10 UHF that works well.  Both were inexpensive and under $150 each.  Basically I have wireless for the cost of a Shure SM58 wired mic.  Sennhieser G2's aren't necessary for karoake.  No matter how nice it would be to have a set of them!

To get started you'll need:

A way to get the music into a mixer.
A way to get the singer into the mixer.
A display for the singer to sing from.
A Mixer.
An amplifier.
Speakers.

That roughly means a good starter setup would be:

2-3 mics and cables (I personally like the Fender P-51 mics at $50 each and they come with 20' cables).
RSQ 333 CDG Player (but some prefer 2 RSQ 222, Numark CD25+G or equivalent)  NOTE: GET A QUALITY PLAYER!
A 13" TV and switchbox (for switching between players if you have more than one)
Assorted cables

Now you need a quality mixer w/ an amp built in (Mixer/Amp) and speakers or a mixer w/ powered speakers or a mixer and amp and speakers.

Some common options are:
All-in-one systems like the Fender PD-250, Peavey Escort 2000 or similar.

Mackie DFX-12 Mixer/Mackie SRM 450 powered speakers

GigRac power mixer w/ speakers

These are just some of the options available.  You'll need to balance your budget with what you have available to you.

BTW, my current setup:

2 Audio Technica 202 VHF Wireless mics
1 Nady URR-10 UHF Wireless Mic
2 Fender P-51 Mics (and a Shure PG58 I don't normally use)
CAVS 203G SCDG/DVD/CDG player
RSQ 333 3-tray VCD/CDG player
Mackie Onyx 1620 Mixer
Peavey Twin DeltaFex Effects unit
Sony JE-330 minidisc player
Sony PCG-R505GL Laptop
1 100GB external 2.5" Drive w/ Music
1 60GB external 2.5" drive w/ Music
1 160GB 3.5" external drive w/ music (totalling about 35,000 legal tracks of music)
1 SoundBlaster MP3+ external sound card (and a Ads Tech external sound card as a Backup)
1 Tascam 102 MKII tape deck
1 Sonic 12U/16U box to hold the above
1 Fender PD-250 for 'monitors'
1 pair of Fender speaker stands
Assorted switchboxes, cables, stands, TV's, etc for doing the show....

I don't currently use powered speakers or an amp/speaker setup because I plug into the house system nearly all of the time.  If I don't I tend to rent a set of speakers or borrow them from a friend.  I'll be picking up some speakers soon but shipping to Alaska isn't cheap and I'll be in the lower 48 later this year.  They'll be my luggage coming back

How much do I have invested?  Too much... But you can get started for about $2500 with a HIGH quality setup.  A little less if you shop around and look for 'deals'.  You can also start with a core setup and expand from there saving a little money to begin with.  Hope this helps....

BTW, with a 'basic setup' you can start with as little as $650-700 w/ a Peavey Escort and player/etc but I'd shoot for about $1K as a minimum and that would be for a PD-250 and a good player/tv/etc.  The Escort 2000 is ok but the Fender is well worth the little bit of extra money if you want to start cheap.  BTW, check out the items at your local store if at all possible and know what you want before you go in to buy.  If they try to push something else you can always come back and ask here before you purchase.

Thanks for the tips!  One thing I haven't figured out yet... If I'm going to use a computer as the player, do I take the output from the pc soundcard straight to the mixer, or is there something that would make it sound cleaner?  I was thinking about either the Fender PD-250, or the Mackie SRM450 powered speakers and Mackie DFX12 Mixer.  Also, any recommendations on the software for the computer?  Thanks....

Well after a little more research, it looks like it will have to be the PD-250.  My budget right now is only around $1200, and I misread the price on the SRM450 (thought it was for two, not just one...)  The only thing I see that bothers me in the reviews, is not alot of bass.  Will I be able to add a sub to this system in the future to make it sound better?
Thanks again....

Here I go again...  I found this when looking for prices:

http://www.pssl.com/bitemdetail.tpl?waG ... 0-PAK%2001

Is the Fender wireless mic a good choice?  Also, is this a good price for the whole setup?

Sorry for making so many posts, but this setup will be for my father and I just want to get things going in the right direction....

I haven't used the Fender wireless mic so I can't say.  I do know the PD-250 works well and if the mic is anything like the rest of the unit it will be great.  I will warn you though - the reviews on the sites are NOT favorable with regards to the mic.

That aside, you don't need a mixer - yet - if you get the PD-250.  It has a mixer built in and basic reverb controls for each channel.  While you 'could' use a mixer and then drive the PD-250 with it you don't need to.

They are right.  If you play a lot of rap, hip-hop, and dance music then you'll notice a HUGE lacking of the bottom end (which is actually typical of most Bose speakers - BTW, they designed the speakers on the PD-250).  You 'could' use the RCA recording outputs to send a signal to a sub though.  I can tell you that for karaoke and basic bumper music in a small venue you might not need it but if you can find a local store that has one listen to it.

BTW, the PD-250 has aux send/returns on the main outputs so you can eq or use feedback control hardware on the output if you have to.

I was hoping that others would join into this discussion as I know I'm not the only person that uses/has used the PD-250.  I know a KJ in Mobile uses one for small parties and someone else on here also uses one occassionally.

Fundun

If your looking for a start set up that you can continue to utilize later when you expand ..try a set of the lightweight Peavey Pr15 speakers - They are light and great sounding for small to medium venues and can always be used later for monitors or else the cost  is great and so is the quality ( for small to medium venues indoors) .  Also look into a small lightweight box type mixer amp from Yamaha or even Behringer.  You can get an awesome set up for around $700
speakers /amp& mixer

just my $.02

BTW, another possibility is to use something like the Mackie SRM350's or JBL Eon G2 10's.  They're small, cheaper and lack the hard core bass response but they're cheaper and might get you in under the price range you mentioned.

Not to be rude.

Budget of $1200 how do expect to become a KJ?
$1200 will not buy a decent set of speakers.
An entire system? what about music?
a decent size starter library of off karaoke brands can't be bought for $1000.

I'm tired of people that have no business going into karaoke thinking its a good idea.
I'm sure you plan to charge $50 a night and free beer.

I have $50,000+ invested in my my kartaoke system the last thing Southwestern PA is another budget weekend KJ.

I have to agree Liquiddye.  How many people have come on this board and other boards saying I have no idea about karaoke but want to start a karaoke/DJ business.

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't start any business without at least a working knowledge of what it entails.   You want to be a DJ or KJ then learn about the business, the equipment, music, books, etc, etc, etc, learn from someone who's been doing it for at least five years and who is a success.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

I agree.  I have $1200 invested into 2 of my 4 amps alone.  Figure a minimum $5,000 start up costs to get a basic "core" selection & decent sound.  

Unless you plan on being one of the pigs that buy a cheap & illegal hard drive off of e-bay.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

I started small, but didn't get into the business until I had 3,800 songs, a full working system, decent mics, printed books, the whole schebang...

And then when I upgraded further by buying SC's foundation... add ANOTHER $700 (at that time).

While I'm not TIRED of people thinking that they can get into this for the fun of it, as I did, I am weary of re-explaining that it is a legitimate business, and you can not do it on radio shack mixers and inexpensive karaoke players. Everytime one of these types of businessmen or women get into this business, they further reduce the appearance of a legitimate entertainment field... especially when customers THINK that their tiny setup is the norm for other karaoke shows. Then when VENUES see that, they don't want to commit larger funds for the better shows... and they in turn think of karaoke as a fad or lark...

Thanks for the help from the people who wanted to give it.  If half the people on this board could read, they would see that I'll be doing very small shows, mostly in the bar area of the local VFW.  Also pay attention that the $1200 was for speakers, amp, and mixer not the music or anything else.  I guess no one else is allowed to do this for fun when there are so many "professionals" in the area.  lyquiddye, timberlea, lonman, and knightshow: Thank you, but I do not take advice from middle age men with cheesy moustaches....If you're not here to help, only to criticize, then why speak at all?

Oh yeah, and timberlea:  I "WAS" on this board to learn about the business, jackass....

Guys, in the end the market sets the standards and the prices.

Around here there are plenty of small, sh**y bars with people running karaoke for $50-75 a night. In every case, however, that is both all those crappy setups are worth and all that the bar owner can afford.

My show kicks azz and I have a nice big pro system and make $175 a night, but throw me into the local dive and they are not going to know what to do with me. Every bar has its own crowd, its own ambiance, and everywhere I've gone that I have seen the bargin rigs, they have, quite frankly, bargin bars and the karaoke is suited to the style and clientele of that bar. Sometimes yall seem to act like the Hard Rock Casino would hire a $50 bargin rig to do karaoke in the lounge if they came in an undercut the pro.

There is room for bargin rigs, uber pros, and everyone inbetween. Provide the product that the bar owner wants and he'll hire you for the market rate, pure and simple. If your employer is not paying you what you think you are worth, quit and find one who will. But spend $50,000 on a karoake rig in a market where you are only going to make $100 a night and you are jsut a bad business person!! Its all just capitalism 101. Funai makes cheaper, lower quality TVs than Sony, but you don't hear Sony bitchin that Funai is ruining their industry and is going to put them out of business!!

I still think the best thing to do if you are starting out is to buy the system you can afford but go with components that are upgradable once you start making some $$. If you have to start out with a bargin rig working in a crappy bar to make a profit, I see nothing wrong with that. If you then make enough $$ to reinvest it into better equipment, then move on to a better bar to make more profit, then that's just good business!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Thank you TopherM.  I'm not trying to compete with anybody.  There are people at the VFW who want karaoke, but the old guys in the bar are not willing to pay for it.  My dad wants to get the equipment and do free shows there, and then if he gets good at it, move on to other things.

Exactly....I don't think the local VFW has any use for lyquiddye's $50,000 system!!

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Oh, and I am far from the expert on computer karaoke for the player, but can give you some REALISTIC recommendations for a good starting point for everything else.

Here's a good, cheap route for a good, pro starter set for your VFW that you could upgrade later:

Behringer PMH660M powered mixer (200 watts per channel, 8 channels, with FX) -$250 at Musician's Friend

Peavey PV115 Speakers (15" woofers, 300Watt continuous handling) - $199 each.

You could skimp on speakers if you needed to save some $$ for now, but you would have to replace them with something of this quality or higher to play in most any respectable commercial setting.

Samson R21 mics $49.99 for three at SamAsh

Mic cables, speaker stands - About $50-60 total.

Hoster is the industry standard program for computer karaoke, then you would also need a CGD compatable burner to rip CDGs onto the computer. It would be cheaper to buy a CDG player, but the computer karoake sure is less work at shows once you have it initially set up and rolling.

So for the equipment I mentioned above you would have good sound for any small or small/medium venue for about $800. Again, there are much cheaper ways to go, but this is the minimum that I would use to look for a real karaoke job!! If you want to just get away with the VFW and need to save some more $$ let me know and I'll get you info on a cheaper system (but one that is more suited for home use and very small venues ONLY!!)

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C Mc
KJ, FL

Okay, you went to the KJ board to ask a question. What we professionals get bothered at is when we point out it's a professional field and should be treated as such, and the guys that want to do it as hobbiests get all miffed when we try to be as exacting as possible.

Read again, John, my post to you. I said I started small, but explained that I had to upgrade, and I've continued to upgrade. But I also didn't start hosting shows with my own company until I KNEW I was ready for the "big time"...

John, if you would have explained yourself to be a hobbiest from your initial post (doing small shows doesn't necessarily equate that), then I think you wouldn't have gotten the flack. I WAS on your side till the jackass comment.

To us, it's a profession. To you, it's fun and a lark.  

Your comment about the middle aged thing was uncalled for, and you can forget any further advice from me!