Karaoke Forums

well if I pee in the wind on a webcam I could probably make alot of money on the internet LOL

ok... on to the barn burner... I agree whole heartedly Allstar (yes, you may all write this historic event down and celebrate it for years to come)... it seems to be a skewed view of piracy- who it harms and who falls under the title of pirate, when the "legal" banner wavers ignore everything else piracy that isn't specifically a karaoke mp3+g... lets forget about pirates who run shows with karaoke libraries they haven't paid a cent for, lets look at a "legal" (according to the mentality used here) KJ, or company, who has bought the necessary amount of original karaoke discs to run multiple systems.  on the surface, they are "legal" and legit according to the standards being pushed here but in order to have been able to buy all the necessary originals, they have used the same copy of Windows on multiple machines.  Same for their hosting programs, ripping and burning software etc... According to many here, they are still legal because they bought all the necessary originals and can provide proof on demand despite the fact they built their LEGAL business on the foundation of pirated software.  Are we two the only ones who find this a conflict of interests?  At the least it is misleading at most, a conflict of ethics. Those who use "legal" karaoke PC systems and who use a pirated copy of windows, KJ pro, one of the many hoster programs (not counting simple winamp and plugins), the software to rip, burn, download, convert, compress and play etc, and who use downloaded mp3's, videos, WAV's etc in their show without proper licensing, are no less a pirate than the KJ who downloads 50,000 karaoke tracks, without spending a dime, simply because they paid for the karaoke tracks.  does it make a difference to a KJ/company who still uses CDG/lasers and the hardware necessary to play them (not PC based- the classic show I suppose) loses their gig to a "legal" karaoke company when  the "legal" company is built on pirated "non-karaoke software"??? those who fly the "legal" banner need to understand that the other pirated non-karaoke software used to enable them to be "karaoke legal" IS STILL KARAOKE PIRACY!!! you cannot seperate the two.  When you read about the major karaoke piracy busts, they don't just come in and confiscate the show PCs or destroy just the pirated karaoke material.  They seize the home computers, burners, hard drives, printers and anything else that is involved in the building of that illegal business, even the "legal" stuff is seized.  Do you think they would ignore all the other pirated software simply because it wasn't karaoke related??? right... thought so...

Do the legal flag wavers DEMAND that the clubs they work in are current with their payment structure to BMI/ASCAP??? If not, then why not?  This whole karaoke piracy outrage is about making sure the industry- artists, writers, copyright holders- all get paid right??? Then the legalists need to demand the clubs they work in pay the royalties for the right to broadcast copyrighted music in their clubs.  I mean, after all, it is the legal thing to do, right?  

there is a HUGE difference between being "legal" and being "internet karaoke forum acceptable"... saying you are legal is misleading because the simple act of format shifting is technically illegal, even if you shout from the top of the world that you can justify it with a number of reasons.  you are NOT legal.  Did they legally purchase the karaoke tracks? does it matter?  the minute the format is shifted, the legality line has been crossed (unless of course it is a mp3G or other proprietory format that has been supplied from the actual manufacturer, and that is a limited amount).  where the legalists want the industry and law to go, so as to make them legal, is noble, I guess, but it does not change what is presently LEGAL.  

The real lithmus test is what is actually prosecutable and who they "should" go after first.  Understandably it should be the people who run shows off of huge libraries and did not pay a dime (or very little) for.  Secondly, is the group of multi-riggers who buy 1 original disk and then copy it as much as necessary to create multiple libraries for multiple systems.  Third is the group of karaoke people who constantly come up and ask when they are up next to sing and they gotta go up next because they are leaving soon.  Lock em up and throw the key away I say.  Next group would be the demanding water drinking karaoker... you get the point... truth is, even the most BLATANT pirate is so far down the list of priorities for law enforcment, and the courts, that it is a universal certainty to think that the average KJ who uses some pirated software/music/videos, downloads a few songs that they haven't paid for, or has a few burns of discs they do not own the originals to, is NOT going to be prosecuted.  The karaoke industry couldn't even come up with acceptable guidelines for format shifting or the digital revolution because they were too busy trying to cut each others throats and demanding that KJ's just shut up and do what they are told.  But don't think that for a moment, that just because a KJ may use justifications for their actions and are generally industry acceptable, does NOT make them legal.  There is a big, big difference...

ok... back to the normally scheduled program "people who pee against the wind and the squirrels who love them"... - tig

Amen  :worship:


Did I say anything about squirrels? Don't flame this thread tig  :whistle:


Take note all you closet-pirates. Tig has just proved a point. I am not just a pretty face.

no worries... the squirrels are with me...

Tony, I for one NEVER thought of you as pretty. Cute maybe!

And Tig does indeed have a major point. The confiscation of the serious people (the kapa and spin busts) that were major bootleggers... they took the legal as well as the illegal.

And he's absolutely right on the illegality of those of us that have format-shifted.

I just know that I walk a fine line... and refuse to cross it, by only having on my show pc the tracks that I do indeed OWN. And because of that, I know I'm far lower on the radar than others.

Okay, back to my narrow-minded happy spot!

Ok, I came clean a while back on my piracy and what I've done to get rid of pirated material.

I can tell you this about every computer I own:

OS - Legal (MS Winblows XP Pro)
Office - Legal (OpenOffice.org)
Anti-virus - Legal (AVG Anti-virus)
Spyware - Legal (Ad-aware)
Music Management - Legal (MediaMonkey)
DJ Software - Legal (MP3 Tunes)
Karaoke playback software - Legal (Beta of Karaoke-Go-Round but not used at shows, I'm still on discs - might buy in the future once I figure out the format shifting decision for myself)
Bar Simulation software - Legal (BarSim)
Bar Recipe software - Legal (BarGenie)
Unix Emulation - Legal (Cygwin)
CD Ripping software - Legal (CDex)
Music Playback - Legal (WinAmp)

Other software I have that's legal?
AudioGrabber, Nero Burning Rom, Put Up Your Jukes, RealVNC, Trillian and many others.

Any illegal software on my machine?  Nope, I formatted the HD when I left the company I was working for in February who provided me some software licenses for home use - specifically, Microsoft Office and Microsoft Visio.  My formatting the HD had more to do with my wanting to remove any company proprietary data well as removal of their software.

Every bit of software I have is and paid for or open source software projects.  I was working for a college and have a few academic versions but those are legal at time of purchase and I'm not aware of the requirement to purchase a new copy of non-academic if I leave the University.

On a side note, all my songs for my show - original CDG's with 1 backup of SC8125 right by the original.  My fiance paid $250 for it, I'll keep a backup of it thank you very much.  If they want me to destroy the 1 copy I have I'll do it right in front of them and use the original.

Yes, I was a hard core pirate for a long, long, time.  And to be honest, working in the IT field made it even easier to steal software (yes, piracy is stealing).  It was rampant and commonplace to use work serial numbers at home, etc.

One of the things I'm looking at trying is running karaoke software under wine so I can finally get off the MS teat.  I've often wondered if they put cocaine in that thing since it seems everyone is addicted to their software.  I wish someone would make a good karaoke software application for use under Linux on or the Mac (whicih I'm considering moving to with my next PC purchase).

Am I unusual with regard to my software? Perhaps.  And All-Star you can come up to Alaska anytime you like and flip through my binders and check out my hard drives all you want.  We can even have a hard drive formatting party with the 2-3 10GB drives in my junk drawer that I haven't used in more than a year.

Why do you have all the ripping programs if you aren't doing anything illegal?  I gather you are copying something.......Where there is smoke there is usually fire.  Just because your ripping program is legal doesn't mean what you are doing with it is.

If you are standing strictly by the law........you don't need them.


This "better than thou" attitude on here really gets me sometimes.  I think ya'll do it just to start arguments.   It's like my daddy can whip your daddy!

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

Well actually, in regards to Windows OS, you are allowed to have it on more than one machine.  Otherwise they wouldn't have let me activiate windows xp on my laptop  when I told them I wanted to put the OS on my laptop, and that it was on my desktop (and that I was keeping it there).  

However you have to read the actual license to know what is and is not allowed.  I'm thinking the general rule on software is only one machine at a time, but I've read licenses that allowed you to put it on up to three machines, as long as they were never in use all at the same time.

THEN you have shareware, which is free to try, and if you like it you buy it.  I like shareware, I like the concept.  I've bought several shareware programs after trying them.  They have timed copies and that sort of thing to help them.

Then the people who think everything should be free, find ways around those safeguards and publish them.  Then you're back to conscience and fear of consequences to keep you in line.

Conscience = This is that little voice that tells you what is right, and what is not.
Honor = Following your conscience when no one is looking

Singing Hamster talks too much.  I step down from my orange crate and give up the stage!

Teri Jo

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Teri Jo
...May the road rise to meet you... just, not too quickly, and not too hard!

There are many LEGAL purposes for these programs as well as long as they fall into the right category.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

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Teri Jo
...May the road rise to meet you... just, not too quickly, and not too hard!

As long as it's personal use and not commercial use.  That is allowed under the Copyright Act.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

1. The possession of software that 'could' be used for a crime isn't against the law.  It would be like arresting every gun owner because the gun 'could' be used in a crime.

2. The use of software to rip a CDG to it's component MP3+CDG files for personal use is legal within the United States.  This act is called format shifting and based on the RIO decision's interpretation of the Fair Use portion of US Title 17 has determined that personal format shifting is legal.  I won't go into DVD format shifting because that deals with the DMCA (Digital Millenium Copyright Act) and encryption schemes.

3. What is legal or illegal in the US may or may not be legal in other countries.  For example, sharing of files for personal use is legal in Canada - largely because of the fact that every blank CDR/tape has a surcharge for piracy attached.  This is NOT legal in the US though!

4. If a KJ uses any software to format shift or backup his/her discs they are breaking the law - period.  There is NOT any means to legally allow you to format shift music or karaoke discs within the United States no matter what any manufacturer of music or software says.  It's a violation of the licensing and copyright laws.  The current laws in the US require you to play the format you purchased from the original and not from backups.  But manufacturer X says... blah, blah, blah... Trust me, it's illegal.

5. If you need to use digital files you can purchase and download them from CAVS, Tricersaoft, and a few other locations.  The new karaokeXTREME product from Karaoke Bay includes digital files and copy of MTU's Hoster to play them with.  The install actually copies the files to your hard drive.  I'm not 100% if these digital files are legal for use in a show but all my research in the past says that it is.

Yes, we all want a way to protect our investment and even format shift to a more convenient format.  There's just not a legal way to actually do it right now and I've asked.  I talked with record labels, karaoke manufacturers, Harry Fox, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC, and the list goes on.

4. If a KJ uses any software to format shift or backup his/her discs they are breaking the law - period.  There is NOT any means to legally allow you to format shift music or karaoke discs within the United States no matter what any manufacturer of music or software says.  It's a violation of the licensing and copyright laws.  The current laws in the US require you to play the format you purchased from the original and not from backups.  But manufacturer X says... blah, blah, blah... Trust me, it's illegal.

THanks I did NOT know that.  I'm not a KJ, but  .. interesting.   I think that needs to be changed, actually.  It's like making recording from the LP to a cassette tape in the old days.  You could make it illegal, but that's rather difficult to enforce I bet.  

Thanks for the informative post!

Teri Jo

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Teri Jo
...May the road rise to meet you... just, not too quickly, and not too hard!

It's still difficult to enforce that's why it's running rampant.  
You CAN do what you want as far as copying, format shifting, etc.. provided it's for home use only.  This IS completely legal, but if those copies are used in a commercial venue of any kind, that's when the technically become illegal.
People have been "format shifting" ever since the invention of something called a "tape recorder".  Vinyl LP to magnetic tape.  Radio to tape.  Tape to tape.  CD to tape.  Biggest difference now is that the cd burned makes perfect (or near perfect) copies with little-no signal degradation.  Even compressed formats, such as the mp3's, wma's, etc even sound as good (or better) as if it was recorded to a tape.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

There was a law passed that dealt with the possibility of perfect or near perfect copies called the Home Recording Act of 1992.  The problem is that it addressed a single technology instead of all digital technology.  It was the first law that assumed that people will violate a law (Title 17 - Copyright laws) and placed a surcharge on both DAT (Digital Audio Tape) machines and the tapes themselves.  It also allowed for a scheme to limit the generations of copies of the tapes themselves.  Since CD's are a different technology it doesn't apply and they haven't written a similar law to apply to other digital techologies either.

Because it is so difficult to prosecute it is rampant but I'd rather buy the media than risk loosing my equipment and my business over some pirated discs.

On a side note, one of the newest copy protection schemes intentionally inserts digital errors into the CD so that if you rip the disc it passes those errors on to the MP3/WMA file making it degrade significantly.  However, because of the error correction circuitry in the audio circuits of your typical CD player you never hear them on the original disc.  As always, there are lots of ways around this but it's just one of the many ways they are trying to combat illegal files and file sharing.