Karaoke Forums

Hi. I'm new here and I have a question.

I've been having trouble lately with my rig and I'm wondering if anyone has had a similar problem or has any idea why this is happening.

The club I'm working at requires me to push the PA to the limit. This means I've got the music cranked up really high and I try to keep the vocals right on top of the music. Well, as you all know sometimes non-professional singers are very erratic with their mic handling techniques and sometimes they'll belt out a scream or two into the mic. This really shouldn't be a problem, but for some bizarre reason I'm having trouble. Whenever someone screams it causes my PA to clip -- which in and of itself isn't a problem other than the nasty crackly noise it causes -- but when my PA clips it somehow causes my CDG player to skip. Sometimes causing it to freak out and stop the song all together -- obviously an embarrassment for the performer and the KJ.

I don't have any idea why a clipping of the signal in the PA would cause something to somehow travel back over the RCA jacks back into the CDG player and cause a skip.

This only happens when the PA clips into the red -- and it happens almost every time the PA clips into the red.

Of course, the solution I have to use is turning down the volume -- but that's something I just don't wanna do.

Anyone have any ideas on how to remedy this without spending the money to upgrade to a bigger PA?

Clipping is bad, you are going to blow your PA or speakers.  You need a more powerful amp if you always pushing to a clipping status - the amp has no headroom.

Nowas far as why you are skipping, it has nothing to due with the fact you are clipping, it has to do with frequencies, proximity of the player to the speakers & possibly the place your player sits is under extra vibration - do you use subs?  
Try a foam pad under your player.  This will help absorb SOME - not all.  Also get it further away from the speakers or out of the speakers line of sight.
But above anything else, get a more powerful amp so you aren't driving to clipping.  You obviously NEED (or want) the extra volume so be before you blow your speakers (it WILL happen at some point of constant clipping), & have to spend the money to replace/repair, get a more powerful amp.  I don't know what you are using now - this may also be able to tell us more why it possibly may be skipping.

Also consider a compressor!

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Hey! First of all thanks for the quick and well-thought-out reply.

Getting a new PA is definitely not an option for me at the moment. Tight budget.

Worst case scenario, I'll have to just lower the volume -- which is something I don't like to do. Right now I only have a problem when singers unexpectedly put their face in the mic and yell. I have to ride the faders throughout the show -- which I don't mind -- but it can be tedious.

Anyway, what you said about isolating the player from the speakers -- I've done all that. At first I thought it had to just be vibrations from the speakers, but I've pretty much eliminated that as the cause of the problem. The only time I ever have the problem is when the singer overloads the mic.

I'm running  a JVC XL-MV303 player into a Yamaha EMX 5000 powered mixer.

A compressor may be the way to go for me, but I don't know all that much about them and how to run them in the system chain. I'm definitely not a techie.

Any thoughts?

Thanks again!

Any compressor is better than none & there are a couple models that have auto settings so to begin this may be the way you want to go - although they really aren't that hard to understand.  You basically set a point & if the volume hits that point, the compressor kicks in & drops the volume back to the set point.

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OK. You're gonna have to forgive my ignorance on this stuff... but do I run the player and mics into the compressor first and then out to the powered mixer, or do I run the player and mics into the mixer like I normally do and run the compressor as some sort of outboard effect. Also, can you recommend a good compressor?

Thanks again for the quick reply and expertise.

Compress the mics only.  The board you have, has the insert jacks (the place you would normally hook the compressor to).  You would need a special cord which is a 1/4" TRS plug to 2 1/4" standard phone plugs.  
The players should go straight to the board.

Good compressor for this purpose, dbx 266XL.

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No, I don't have a compressor. But I'll look into getting the one you mentioned. If there's a chance it will help my problem I'm definitely gonna look into it. Thanks once more for your help.

I actually edited my post above before you had a chance to re-read.  Your mixer DOES have the insert jacks needed to properly add compression.

Also what kind of speakers are you running?  This is amp is more than powerful enough for most applications - you shouldn't be needing to push the volume that high.

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a pair of S115V 's

This is a very rockin' crowd so they like the volume. I think the compressor is gonna help a lot. I only have the problem when I'm dealing with singer who go from holding the mic a foot away from their mouth (which causes me to have to push up the volume on the mic), and then they suddenly put the mic right in their face and yell. I'm dealing with a lot of drunks singing rock music. I never, never, never have this problem with "good", more "professional" singers. I can set their volume and they know how to control a mic. I only have the problem when people have no idea how to sing or work a mic.

Like I said you have a decent amount of power - although the S115's would like a little more, but still should be ok.  Do you have the amp selector switch set for 500x500? If not, move it there.  It's on the back panel right under the 500Wx500W.

When you decide you CAN upgrade, would really recommend you start off with a GOOD powered 18" sub - at least 1.  This will make a huge difference in the percieved loudness where you may not have to turn up as high, but still get a good KICK.

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Yeah, I'm set to 500x500. I may be able to see a sub in my future. First though is definitely the compressor (I've already set my ebay sniper to get one within the next couple of days).

The power I have is fine. I can sit on the volume I need to fill the room. The only time I have the problem is with the erratic singers who cause the clipping when I've got their vocals turned up and then they surprise me with a belt.

I think the compressor will help here.

I'm still not exactly sure WHY the problem is happening, but I appreciate your input on what to do to help it.

Lonman touched on it...

EQ your mains to exclude all freqs below 50-63 HZ. That will give you lots more headroom at the amp...Also engage mic low cuts on the mixer if it has them.

Whatever you do, insert a compressor on each mic channel and one on the playback strip...Go with a pair of 99 buck Alesis 3630's if you have to, but do it!

You may not have enuff cabs and amps...You may have enuff cabs, but until you filter and cross them properly, you won't know....So whatever you do, don't starve the cabs you have for amp power or you will blow the horns or maybe the cab's built in passive crossovers....If you actually hear distortion from clipping, then you are doing damage to the diaphrams in the horns....Stop that now.

Learn to deal with too much amp power and where/when to filter your mains. Make sure you ain't clipping thru the board too.

Get all the gain you can at the strip inputs without overloading the pre's and then filter out any lows your cabs can't handle beyond -6 to -10dB.....Consider that every time the top woofers thump, they steal power fron the horns....Horns can't survive long below their peak ratings, so preserve amp headroom by cutting lows to the woofers.

If then you need more bass, buy sub tubs and matched sub amps....Bass is the most expensive and narrowest freqs you will ever experience....But a loud, tite bottom will spare your tops and your horns will be able to reach twice as far as before.