Karaoke Forums

The last couple of times I've gone out and sung, I've had a problem with the vocals being drowned out by the music and the general din of the bar, unless I really shouted the song out.  The first time this happened I figured they just didn't have the mic turned up loud enough, but now I'm starting to wonder if it's just me.  

When I sing my first song at a comfortable volume/octave, it seems like my vocal gets completely lost.  Then for my second song I'll try to adjust by singing one octave higher, allowing me to increase the volume.  This gets me all screwed up, because it gets too high for me, so I either switch octaves constantly (sounds dumb) or get completely messed up and go way off-key (sounds really, really dumb).

An associated problem is that when the bar gets noisy and I've been talking really loudly between my songs, I feel the need to shout when I get up to the mic, and can't seem to get my normal softer singing voice back.

Do I just suck, or has anybody else experienced this?

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

sounds to me like your KJ needs to step up to the plate and raise or lower the volume when needed.

Whenever I sing a softer song... my KJ ALWAYS raises the mic volume. Usually those songs get louder in the middle of the song, so I just pull the mic back.

but yah... your KJ should be listenin for that (in my opinion)

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Although it's Possible that you do Suck, Changing the Octave doesnt  make it louder.
You say its just the last couple of times that you've gone out and sung?
has anything Changed ? Like Monitor Placement ? Different Mic? things like that.
are they songs your comfortable with or new songs? people tend to sing louder with more confidence. another thing that it may be is do you warm up on the way to the club? Its allways a good I deer (im from NY) to belt a few out on the way this helps alot.
If youve been doing it for ahwile and have sang these songs before you Prolly dont Suck so dont worry about that part. try the above or like my Stalkee says Just have the KJ crank it up a lil Bit.

Just a Thought
Michael

for me personally no two nights are the same,take last week for example.i went out four nights and on the first three nights wowed em.so full of confidence on the fourth night i strode in the bar and did my first song to nothing,not a clap,not a holler,i mean nothing.i walked off to my own footsteps,its not got me down i will be out again tonight.

Don't let it get you down...Sometimes it's just the crowd.  Some nights I'll go in, all ready to party, and won't get a nod.  Then other nights I won't even be in the mood to do a show, and people will clap and cheer!  Ya never know.  

Maybe put your mouth a little closer to the mic?  Or you could look at the KJ, point to your mic, then point up (that's how people [nicely] tell me to turn them up.)  Or does the KJ drink himself into oblivion and doesn't care what people sound like?  --just a thought...

You watch..I bet the next time you go out, it'll be a good night for singing.

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"Life is the song, Love is the music"

Do you notice that many other singers are getting their vocals "drowned out" by the music ?  Is the KJ mix extremley heavy on the MUSIC ?  Does he/she play a lot of mix dance music ?  You mentioned you had to SHOUT in the bar just to talk. Thats sounds either a little to loud or your standing in front of the speaker.
Listen to see if other singers are having the same problem > Ask the KJ to tweak the mix for you ..Practice some differant mic techniques ?  Maybe thats part of the problem .. OR if those don't fix the problem..MAYBE YOU  JUST SUCK  LMAO  LMAO

I've had singers that were either so quiet or so bad at mic technique, that the noise of them putting the mic back in the stand is deafening.  However, assuming the KJ is paying attention to sound, he/she should always be able to mix so the vocals are audible over the music.

Unfortunately, the general din of the bar is sometimes impossible to overcome.  The louder you get, the louder they get, and you generally don't want to get into a contest that makes everyone miserable in the end.

If you know the KJ well, you might want to talk to him/her about speaker placement so that the area around the singer is quieter than the rest of the bar.  This prevents people from having to scream at each other when they are within earshot of the singer.  Of course, the singer still has the benefit of the monitors, so it won't be a problem of being too quiet for the singer.

Here's another thought for you besides thinking you just suck:  Consider the particular song you're singing.  Is it one that you've done another time and didn't think your vocal volume was too low?  Or is this one you've never tried before?  One thing I've noticed quite a bit is that with all the different CDG manufacturers, versions of one particular song can vary DRAMATICALLY from one manufacturer to the next.

Just for example, I have 4 completely different versions of a song I like to sing AT HOME.  Haven't tried it in public yet, but that's neither here nor there at this point.  Anyway, the 4 different versions of this song are by All Hits, DKG, Pop Hits Monthly and Sound Choice.  I have tried all four at some point or another.  Anyway, I've noticed that the background music is quite different on ALL of them.  I've had to turn the mic volume all the way up when I sing on my machine with the Sound Choice and Pop Hits Monthly versions because the background music is overpowering (and the vocals still don't seem loud enough to me), whereas the other two versions the background music doesn't seem loud enough.  I don't have a mixer or anything, just the standard karaoke machine so I can't manipulate anything other than the mic volume.  But I would know if I took one of those versions with me to karaoke in public that I would need to tell the KJ to reduce the background mix a tad or turn up the mic volume, etc.

If I didn't have several versions of different songs at home to practice with, I probably would have never noticed this.  I would have just assumed the KJ needed to mess with the board a little better or that I wasn't singing loud enough.  However, I have also noticed that from one weekend to the next at the SAME PLACE I was just at the prior weekend, the same song can sound completely different depending on who was manning the board.  A lot of the time, the controls get switched around and it can change the sound YOU are producing all together.  Guess it's just the KJ's perception on any given night.

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Perhaps the mix is just fine, and it's just you.  I have customers at my shows who complain that they can't hear themselves despite the fact that I have a stage monitor pointing right at them, or occasionally (depending on the venue) when they are standing right in front of a speaker.  I don't get it.  

Just sing your song and trust that your KJ is doing his/her best to make you sound as good as possible.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

I have seen it where the singer is just sooooo quiet, that you can crank everything having to do with the mic, and they just don't come thru.  I have a very powerful voice, but even I have to have the volume raised a bit, sometimes. The KJ I go to on Saturdays is really cool. He will even raise the bass on the mic if I ask him to. (He's also a friend of mine, and lets me adjust myself), and I adjust him when he sings.
As far as crowds, it all depends on the night. I have had bad nights where I crack all over the place, and feel like hanging my head in shame, and I get a ton of compliments. There are other nights when I am right on, and I get nothing. It's wierd.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

Big Mike, isn't it great when you get that hand signal from the singer that universally means "Turn something up or something down, because I either can't hear myself or I can't hear the music, but I'm not going to tell you what's wrong", but yet you have no clue what the singer wants because it sounds fine to you?  That's usually when I go over and turn some knobs on some dead channels on the mixer, and it usually fixes the problem.  :)

 Hi Folks..

I go to karaoke 2 to 4 times a week and 8 out of 10 guys who hold a microphone do not hold it properly.   Seems to be a bigger problem with guys than girls..(I ain't going there)  I see em have their hand all over the end of it, singing into the side of it, holding it upside down in the air, or coming into it sideways, covering all but a tiny place on the end, too close, too far away, etc etc. etc.

 :yes: It's hilarious just to watch em.  I am a people watcher anyway and sometimes I just crack up watching it...If ya think I am  nuts start paying attention..and I promise it is a GUY thing...Just watch em..

So my first thought, after poor KJ who doesn't mind his levels (which is an epidemic it seems) is:  Are you holding your mic properly, because YES, it does matter!!

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When I was young, I used to believe in the concept of one best friend,  then I became an adult  and  realized  that if you allow your heart to open up, God would show you the best in many friends...

So true heads!  I guess karaoke singers dont realize that the fools in the rap videos can hold their mics like that because THEY REALLY AREN'T SINGING!  They are lip synching along to their tracs so they can afford to "look cool" holding the mic all weird like that.

Point the top of the mic right at your mouth just an inch or so away and you'll be just fine!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

i acutally put a page in my books on mic holding.

Seems singer fall into 4 categories
Cuppers, eaters/toohbrusher, waist singers, and do-right

Cuppers - umm your voice can't go through your hand, and you are not a rapper, hold the mic a fist's distance from your mouth, and do not grab the mic by the wind screen (an Anti-roll device at the top seems to stop cupping)

Eaters/toothbrusher - holding the mic sideways like you would hold a toothbrush, like the mic is going to reach out and grab your voice, the mic pickup from the end, not on the side.

Waist singers - your voice comes out your mouth, not your belly button

Do-right - the ones who have sung before many times and have learned how to hold a mic right
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Now some KJ's just don't adjust their levels. I myself cannot adjust sound when a singer is standing 3 feet from me, so i break out the headphones and adjust accordingly

This is f a response to this thread and can bad singers become good.  Half of singing is good hearing. I f you cant distinguish pitch differences or are hearing impaired in certain frequency ranges you need amplification to compensate. At high volumes it is still hard for some to hear the full range although vocal frequncies are at mid range. The ability to distinguish between audio frequencies varies between individuals and at the extreme some are tone deaf..

The people with bad mic tecniques can be somewhat compensated for  with a good compressor however they need to be taught to sing directly into the mic and establish proper distance for them....On a good system nobody should sound bad. If a stage is set up riight you can move to hear from the stage monitor or go to the other side and hear whats coming out of the mains . The sweet spot is where you can hear both and turn your head to select which one..

With the proper efx faults can be disguised or compensated for... And when the singer RELAXES  and sings naturally from the heart no efx is needed for it is music in it's most intended form.
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To the originator of this thread  on a given night most of my songs are ones Ive never sang before. Becuase I am not putting pressure on myself to sing good  Relax and sing....Also do songs that are a challenge I absolutelty murdered Crystal Gayles  Cry but I finally got it it sounds like johnny raye but cant sing his version  go figure...

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Hey, I totally eat the mic. That's not a flaw, mics are intended to be sung into. When I get down into the lower register, the mic goes right between my lips. If I'm singing "Try" by Janis Joplin, I don't really need a mic at all and it's at arms length away from me, and sometimes THAT is too loud.

But it is difficult for a singer to hear what they sound like from,say, the bar. Ask people for hints who watch you sing and take some advice.

If most of the time you feel like you're being drowned out by the instrumental or the crowd ambience, then complain or find another venue. If you think you suck, chances are, it's your KJ who sucks. Not even pros sing well with a poor sound mix.

A KJ is not a professional sound engineer like in a recording studio. And a tiny minority of KJs will set the sound mix perfect. Some expect a tip, others will doctor it depending upon whether or not they like the song or you and the rest have no clue.

You learn how to sing by audio feedback. And that is as true with speakers on a stage as it is with the echo in a bathroom. I suggest that you find a rare KJ who fixes the sound fairly and you'll be amazed at how much better you'll sound.

I didn't see you mention whether there had been any changes in the equipment setup at the venue.  If they had monitors before and have since done away with them, or changed their locations (or even turned them around for mains) then you could be blasting the venue and not know it.

Another possibility is that the overall volume in the venue is so loud that you've desensitized yourself to the loud volume and you're missing your voice in the mix.  There are lots of reasons that the mix might sound off to the singer, but have you asked anyone with you that's listening in the crowd?  If not, I'd ask them if you the mix was ok (vocals to sound) and then try to compensate appropriately with mic technique, or by asking the KJ during a break in the song if he can turn up your vocals on the monitors.  I'd ask someone in the crowd if your mic volume seems the same as everyone else as well.  If it's just you then there is reason to be concerned, but if it's everyone then that's a different problem entirely.

I hear ya.  I don't sing loud and typically get in arguments with stubborn KJ's who won't turn up the mic.  I go to one place a lot because the KJ will turn it up.  Nobody seems to get too irritated unless I sing right after someone ate.

:-David