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Exactly!  These are often the same types of crowds I get, not all there when we start (although I have got there & already had 20 slips sitting on the counter - but that's rare).  Usually the crowds filter in throughout the night - especially this time of year.

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I just experienced this last night.  I got to the bar at 8:30pm (show starts at 9:00am) and yes, I'm one of those multiple slip guys.  I put in my three slips and hope for the best.  Usually, over the course of 9-1:30am, I get in my three selections and maybe even a fourth if the crowd is light at the end.  Last night, I did my first song at 10:00pm and didn't get up again until 12:30am...and that was it for the night.  My problem isn't the wait, or even that I only did two songs....I was irritated because I saw several singers who came in at midnight or later, get on stage by 12:30-1:00am.  I know I already did one, and it's their "first time"...but it seems like there should be some reward/benefit to being there all night (besides singing one song vs. two...).  I was ticked that here I was sitting there for 3 1/2 hours waiting for my second song and "Billy and Mandy" both walk in at midnight and within 20-30 minutes are on stage.   I'm not a KJ and don't pretend to know the perfect system, but it seems the regulars that are there all night (and I'll guarantee you that over 5 hours I spend a lot more on food and beverage than ANYONE that walks in for the last 90 minutes....) should be rewarded in some way for this.  If someone walks into a Karaoke show at midnight (and it ends at 1:30pm), I'm not sure they should get up there at all.... But like a previous poster said, I'm not someone who will complain verbally, I will just start frequenting another bar.  :(

But do you know if the insert method was used or they were lucky and came in at the right time to be put to the end of the "amusement park" line.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Actually a first come first served is usually fair but gets sticky if you have too many singers coming all at once.

In a first come first served rotation its actually an insert method.

4 singers, and while singer 2 is singing a new singer comes in would look like this:
1
2
3
4
1
2
3
4
1
5
2

See, it's an insert method.  Sounds more like you're using a fit at the end of rotation method where it would have been:
1
2
3
4
1
2
3
4
5
1

See. The first 4 come and will always follow each other and new singers go to the end of the rotation.

There are lots of ways to run a rotation and each venue and host has their own way to handle it that they feel is fair to the patrons.  I'm glad you were able to keep everyone happy!

No inserts.

Round 1
1-2-3-4-5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-15-16-17-18-19-20-21-22-23
24-25-26-27-28-29-30-31-32-33


Round 2
1-2-3-4-5-6-8-9-10-11-12-13-14-16-17-18-19-21-22-23-24-25-26
27-28-29-30-31-32-34-35-36-37-38-39-40-41-42-43-44-45

The singers that left from round one are in bold in round 1.  Singers 34-45 were added to the end of list once round 2 began ... in the order they submitted their slips.




I've ALWAYS said this, KM.  To each their own.  What works for them, works for them.  Was just making a contribution.

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

Putting new singers at the end has always been my method but after using Roxbox a few tomes this is how I'm gonna do it..The window is split into 2 screens which are adjustable, search and que. Once a rotation is started the next singer is always at the top when that song is played it goes to the bottom and everybody advances to the top. New singers are added to the bottom, so actually they are added right after the current singer.. After a search a right click on the song wanted brings up a menu with several options new singer which allows you to type in new name or has a list of the current singers . If you click on the singer desired it replaces that singers selection and keeps the rotation straight. It also has option to record and if checked records that singer and puts it  into a wav file.. It seems like the fairest rotation to me yet. And if anybody asks I'm gonna say it's computerized.

 Dont want to do a commercial but I have tried them all mentioned on this forum and then some . This software is in it's infancy and has the inital bugs but even at that it blows everything else out of the water. Google Roxbox or Kjamp which will be the new one... After one show I payed the $60 in a heartbeat..

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Putting new singers at the end has always been my method but after using Roxbox a few times this is how I'm gonna do it..The window is split into 2 screens which are adjustable, search and que. Once a rotation is started the next singer is always at the top in the que list. when that song is played it goes to the bottom and everybody advances to the top. New singers are added to the bottom, so actually they are added right after the current singer.. After a search a right click on the song wanted brings up a menu with several options new singer which allows you to type in new name or has a list of the current singers . If you click on the singer desired it replaces that singers selection and keeps the rotation straight. It also has option to record and if checked records that singer and puts it  into a wav file.. It seems like the fairest rotation to me yet. And if anybody asks I'm gonna say it's computerized. There is a total singers list which can be put on the big screen and one of my suggestions will a message to the effect there are 22 singers in rotation, estimated wait time 70 minutes....

 I never was good at numbers and have engineering degrees and got a little confused trying to dechiper some rotations here. But this is simple and didnt take much description to explain it which is why I like it ... No thinking just plug em in....

 Dont want to do a commercial but I have tried them all mentioned on this forum and then some . This software is in it's infancy and has the inital bugs but even at that it blows everything else out of the water. Google Roxbox or Kjamp which will be the new one... After one show (it didnt have the 60 second limit)  I payed the $60 in a heartbeat..

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hey, just be systematic and of course take bribes, hope that helps

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Newcomers or friends should not be allowed to cut in line. That is WRONG.

It should be first come, first served, just like in any fair business.

Your regular customers who support your show should not get their spot in line taken by some one shot wonder.

KJs who let people cut in line SUCK!

I am a little late weighing in as I am not online as often. I have large rotations. I use a dry erase board to list singers in rotation. I run a straight rotation. I often have 30 + singers. I have sought to cultivate the patient type of cliental. I get all kinds, don't get me wrong, but they can see at all times what I am doing, when and where they sing, and what is going on. If someone tried to use multiple names I will remove them from singing for the evening PERIOD! I pretty much know who is singing. I use a digital camera so even doing a new gig I KNOW who is who. I write the name with the picture number and often what they are singing. I may also write down other info if I don't know the person like a clothing hair or other description I would notice if I have a lot of new faces.

I cap my round when the wait to sing for that round is a two hour wait unless everyone comes in before the first hour is up. THEN I may have to close the rotation early for the evening - it has happened a few times. I had to close taking names before 11 for my 4 hour shows that start at 9 PM. People at the top may have waited two or more hours to sing again it will not be that long if someone must sing at the bottom of the next round because of attrition. AND YES they WILL wait for their turns because if they leave I will remove their name. If they come back and the board is NOT closed to taking any more names they will be added back in. If I am still on the round they left after singing they will stay in that position. Any singers added after that are new singers will sing that round but the returnee will not sing again until the next round since it is ONE TURN PER PERSON PER ROUND. This encourages them to wait!

The person who is signed up must be the person who I hear singing. I have had people try to get a friend who wanted to sing up in their turn with them and then they walk off stage or stand and don;t sing, the friend sings. IF I do not hear the person signed up sing at least part of the song or they do not sing on mic, I cut the song and go on. It is rare but I have had others try this one. I have rules that say I have the right to do whatever it takes to ensure fair rotations.

I have shows all around me. There is no sign and has been no sign for the club I play 3 nights a week where this happens often (hurricane Ivan took it out Sept. 16th), plus it has NEVER been lit.

You are in control of your show. If I am or near the bottom when a new singer comes in the sing if not they wait. NEW SINGERS ARE ADDED TO THE BOTTOM OF ROTATION. There is an alpha and an omega to my rounds.

Stragglers will ALWAYS come in late and expect to sing. I am always polite and tell these people to come in early next time so they can sing - NO EXCEPTIONS. The people who come in early and wait are rewarded with the chance to sing for their patience and patronage. I am consistent and fair, take NO bribes, nor show any favoritism. I guard ONLY a person's first song. Many times I have only a two round show moving at 4 minutes per singer, so I often cap the rounds at around 30 as it is a 2 hour wait, and yes people will wait to sing that last round if they come in on a capped round.

I have been doing this since March 1 , 1997, three nights a week, in the same club I started playing and this has worked well for me. I have shows across the street, and have had them next door, they are up and down the street withing a mile so competition is all around me. The club does NOT advertise. Neither of the two clubs I play are on the beaten path, people have to hunt my shows up, and they DO. Some people will ALWAYS try to get over on the KJ if you let them. If you set up your own operational system and stick with it, you can cultivate the kind of patronage you need. As long as the customer knows you are taking care of them for patronizing your venues, they will take care of you. Make sure you announce HOW you operate and that you are protecting THEIR interests. They WILL appreciate it in an industry that is not always fair.

I use this system in my other club gigs and it works well. Whatever system a KJ chooses consistency is the most important element. My reputation for fairness is one thing people know and a big reason they will come in and wait. They know I will not skip them, they are guaranteed where they sing in the line up. They leave they come out of rotation. I do get a few who get frustrated, but the posted always current dry erase board shows what I keep in pen on a steno pad, people WATCH THAT BOARD LIKE A HAWK! Keeps the poop down to being NONEXISTENT! No subbing singers, you don't sing in your turn I place a zero instead of a check mark and you sing the next round-sometimes over 2 hours later. It's like standing in line for an E ticket ride. Everyone wits so the guy who came in last has to wait, the others ahead have had to do the same, if they want to sing they will wait.

Whatever you do YOU are in charge of your shows. Every KJ needs to grow a thick skin. The excuses to sing ahead of others will amaze you, but alas they won't get you ahead of anyone else. You come in too late to sing after doing something else that is NOT my problem. I don't mind people going other places but live with the choices they make if they come in on a capped round or closed board for that evening. Those in rotation are guaranteed their song(s).

STAR KARAOKE/Debra Lewis  :dancin:

I have a plywood board about 24" wide by 30" tall.  I attached 24 spring clips to it (those little triangular paper holder things).  When someone brings up a slip, it goes in the next open slot, they are all numbered.  I have a slip with my name on it (although I don't always sing) and a large note that "the list starts here".  New singers get added to the end of the list, If I'm more than 1/2 way through the list, they will not sing until the next round, if it's during the first 1/2 they will get to sing that round.  When anyone comes up to ask when they get to sing, I can just point to the board, where we're at, and where they are and tell them 3 or 4 min. a song. I don't have many problems doing it this way. Duets count as someone’s turn I'll let them figure out who's, but everyone knows my rule about this and if they don't I'll let them know.  For those who are "helping a friend sing"  I'll announce that it's Jane’s turn and Debbie is helping (if Jane is just standing and Debbie is obviously the one singing I'll turn her mic down so she is just barely heard, or turn her off in the mains and let her sing to herself in the monitor, when she complains I'll remind her it's Jane’s turn, not hers.  Gets the point across very quickly.)

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I do this one too hitworm! If the singer who has the turn on deck turns off the mic then I go to the next singer in the rotation. I try to announce often that THE HARDEST PART ABOUT KARAOKE IS WAITING FOR YOUR TURN.

Oh Tom!  Debs thinks you're a Hitworm as well!  LOL

That's given me my giggle for the day.

It's been ages since I've been on this forum, I forgot my password and had to join again!

Anyway, for what it's worth, my rotation is much like Lonnie's

OOPS!!!! Sorry T O M !!

I guess it was on the other forum I explained my nickname.  I run the Hole In The Wall Tavern(HITW) and my name is Ralph?

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"Either write something worth reading or do something worth writing about."
Benjamin Franklin

Personally, I'd go with Hitworm.  It's got a nice ring to it.  :D

 And Ralph alias Hitwtom alias Hitworm drinks Red Bull with an occasional Flat Tire....Ok build me a nic out of that one..... Is it beer 30 yet? Whens happy hour Ralph?

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Why oh WHY can't there be any freaking KJ in my area who does first-come, first-serve, OR that counts duets as a turn for both? I just dunno. Everywhere I go around here, they interweave newbies. I cannot imagine ANY person saying that that doesn't irk them even a lil, esp. when they got there early. And getting there early, and watching duet after duet, spinning out one after the other.....SIGH. Must be nice! OH and sometimes watching the KJ sing in every....dern....rotation....no matter how big it gets. Oh vell. I just try to avoid Friday nights.

you could always hop on a flight to Portland, Tigger! I give great hugs! AND don't interweave the newbies! !