Karaoke Forums

First of all, I don't have a PROBLEM.

A LOT of people will make decisions based on their own particulars. "My Way or the Highway" applies to many things.

Would you go to a bank and let people cut in line, just because overall the time to wait on everybody is still the same?? The people that are getting "cut in front of" don't happen to FEEL that way! YES, the total singers served is still the same. No rotation is ever going to shorten the wait for anybody.

What I'm talking about is a matter of first come, first served.  NOT my way or the highway. I've been to many shows over many years. My rotation philosophy is one that served several people way before I came around. I founded my company based on the concepts of the singer comes first, not the other way around.

Reread your post.  You said if a show had an insert method you wouldn't go regardless of anything else.  To me that is my way or highway.  I can imagine the number of great shows you will miss because of it.  I on the other hand only care that it is consistant and a good time is had by all.

As for the bank or amusement park analogy.  In those places you normally go once, do your business and carry on.  Very few people I know, just ride the roller coaster all day, they sample a variety of rides, so you analogy is all wrong.  In karaoke it is a one type thing (to sing) over a period of time.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

It's still not a PROBLEM, Tim, no matter how you justify your analysis.

As for saying it doesn't apply, it applies to ANYTHING that you wait while others do their thing. Banks, groceries, amusement parks, etc.

"Wait sir, you've been thru this line before. So these people haven't done it yet, so you must allow them to get put in front of you!"

That's crap! no matter how you try to pretty it up.

IN my own opinion. Must be my problem!

I'm with Knightshow on this one.   I take a big offense if I have been somewhere
all night spending my money and the KJ is constantly putting new people up in front of me.  I realize that the more people that come in to sing that the longer the rotation becomes and that's fine but if I have been singing after Suzy for the last two hours then I expect to sing after Suzy everytime.  That's my place in the rotation. We have a lot of "bar hoppers" around here.  People that come in and buy one or two drinks and then they are moving on to the next place.  So you see a steady stream of some coming and going. The KJ has no way of knowing if these people are going to be there for the rest of the night.   So I guess it is "my way or the highway" because I don't frequent places that do it any other way. And as Knightshow said...it's no problem...there are plenty of KJ's that do it right so I don't have to waste my time or money with one that I don't agree with.  I think when you put people in front of the ones already there you are setting yourself up to be showing favorites or taking care of your friends.  I'm fully aware that if I go into a bar at 12:30 and the KJ stops at 1:00 that I'm probably not going to get to sing.  Common sense.

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

I invite all to one of my shows. but here are the rotation rules

1. Rotations, you will be mixed in. Allows those who come in late because babysitter came late, they got off work late, flat tire, someone stopped by and decided to talk for hours, or you and your spouse were involved in some bedroom excercise, to come and be able to sing within the first 15 minutes you arrive if you wish.

2. If you leave during my show expect to loose your spot in rotation. As I know the bar across the street has maybe 3 singers and we have 15 + in rotation.

3. If I find out you are bar hopping then you will be placed at the end of the rotation.

4. If you don't like my rotation speak to me and then the bar owner.. If you are not happy with our explanation then there is the door........




Just remember I respect and listen to everyone on the forum. But I have to stand firm with my rotation style. I have seen our shows grow even with this style of rotation and I can not say all but most like it.

Rotations just like any other aspect of this business or any other ..KNOW YOUR CUSTOMERS... If I have a large rotation and a group of new singers come in I'll do my best to mix them in so they are not waitng TOOOO long. BUT ! I know which singesr  I can slip them in front of and which singers will cry like a screaming baby if they have to wait 5 more minues to sing.  I have one woman who comes in every week to sing but becuase of family obligations arrives late ...She is a regular but a "late comer" so she doesn't wait 1 hr to sing .I'll try and slip her in -in a reasonable amount of time. I'll also take notice if someone's been in the place for 3 hours but JUST decided (due to alcohol) too submit a slip. That person also I'll try to slip in.  But if you're a singer who's been hanging at some other bar and decided to stroll in 30 minutes before quiting time and demand to sing ... forgetabout it !

You have to be consistant with your rotation policy ..Post it and all your rules so singers know whats expected of them .  But I think you also have to be FLEXIABLE
and adapt to new situations. It's a business and the customers decide who works and who doesn't .  It may be your equipmet and your time .. But your hired to do a job and that job is to entertain karaoke singers so they stay spend lots of money and come back in the future sometime. Keep the faith as you work at one place week after week you will get to know each and every customer and what works and what doesn't. ..Good Luck

What gets me about your numbered system is this Greg:

HOW can you have a place in the rotation when you are constantly putting people in there?

As for the leaving or bar hopping, I tend to agree with you. But once I call someone's name, and they don't come up, out of the rotation they go. If they come up and say "I was outside" then to the end of the rotation they go. JUST as if they left.

As for Jam's thingy on waiting too long... when they come in after the show starts, they're susceptable to waiting just like everyone else, in my opinion. As my lady a10cgirl so eloquently said... it's common sense.

So answer me this question, you've started the second rotation there are presently 16 singers and your at 14 and five people come in, where do they go, 17.18, etc or do you make them wait til the end of the third rotation.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

yes.

The people who've been there all night will still follow each other. Also, if it's too late, I won't let 14 people just join in the rotation.

No, he was asking you:  Say you have 16 total singers, you are on singer number 14 & 5 more people come in, do you stick them in at the end of the current rotation as singer 17, 18, 19, 20, 21 or do you make them wait a whole entire round before you stick them in at the end?

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I will still mix them in. Meaning as I mix new singer to old and I get to the end of the rotation I then start mixing them in at the beginning of the rotation keeping the old new old new old new mix.

There are time when I feel nessasary I announce that we have a new sing in rotation and then call them up. Usually when we have a large rotation and I want people to know that I am not skipping anyone and I will also go into the crowd and let the singers know there position and who they will be singing after.

for the last question it would go

Current singer then 15 new 16 new 1 new 2 new 3 new ect....

Yes....they would be 17, 18, 19, 20 & 21.    Common sense again......the more people that come in....the longer the rotation.   They came in during the round and if they get their slips up before the round is over....yes...that's where they go.   Everyone around here accepts that.  But if I'm number 5 in the rotation when that rotation starts over I expect to still be number 5 unless 1,2, 3 or 4 has left and in that case I would move up a spot.   When I KJ'd...I kept a pad and pencil with my rotation on it....no room to slip anyone in.  New ones had to go to the bottom.   If someone left, their name was crossed out and the next person would sing.  They could come up anytime they wanted to and see how many singers were in front of them.   I did this show for 3 years and never once was I told I was unfair.   This consisted of anywhere from 20 to 30 singers a night.  Still get offers to KJ....I just don't have the time anymore.     It seems so simple and yet everyone seems to make a rotation so complicated.   But I guess if the other way works for you then that's what you should do.  But honestly....I would probably only be at your show one time.

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

Ok so they go to 17, 18, 19, 20.  You now get to singer 17 & 6 more singer sign up, they go to the end of the line as well I take it?  So now you have singers 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26.  Singer Number 1 must be starting to get pretty upset as I could see how this method would make the older singers upset as well - I know it would make me upset.  If I was singer number 1 originally of 16 singers, singer 14 is up now & 5 more people sign up.  Now instead of 2 singers, I have to wait 7 singers.  Now we get to singer 17 (cool now I have only 3 to wait), low & behold 6 more sign up.  Now instead of the orignal wait of 2 singers, I am now going to have to wait through 11 new singers.  

Now if these singers were inserted - we are on number 14 of the original 16, 5 new singers come in.  I personally would add one between
15
*new*
16
*new*
1
*new*
2
*new*
3
*new*
4.  
So now singer number 1 still has a wait, but instead of continuing the wait all together at the end of the round, the singers that HAVE been there are still getting another chance a little quicker, than having to wait through the end of ALL the new singers at once.
Now while singer #17 is up, those other 6 new singers come up.  They get added as
*new*
5
*new*
6
*new*
7
*new*
8
*new*
9
*new*
10
*new*
11
12
13
14
15
16

So the first method would actually make the people that were there from the begining, wait LONGER before they actually get to sing again.  The insert method - while true - you don't follow the same person necessarily every round, but your wait time is reduced considerably for you next turn.  There is STILL a wait either way, but the show I would frequent would be show number 2 - as long as it is constitant & I know what to expect from night to night.

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I have decided that I will no longer run a rotation for my singers but and endless loop of singers. Once started ther will never be and ending, start or finish just insertion. That way no one can say the were number whatever in the rotation...

where to begin - where to end that is the question....

This is EXACTLY how we've run our show for 10 yrs.  We've gone from 15 to around 36 singers a night.  Hasn't hurt us ... at all.  In fact ... most say it is the only fair way.  

Like at disney land ... you arrive at the ride .. you stand in line in that order.  Wanna take the ride again ... back to the end of the line.... I doubt the folks in the line would be "cool" with folks intermixing that just arrived at the ride.  

But.. I am of the philosophy .. as is LONMAN .. that you do what you do CONSISTENTLY .. and it'll work !!

Take Care Folks.  
CCindy

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I would love your show.....Shotgun!!!!





We've all had to deal with long rotations and most karaoke singers don't mind
that as long as they know where their place in the rotation is.  When you
are mixing them up....it's a mass of confusion and really irks me when I'm
out to have a good time.  When I think I'm about 5 songs away and 6 people come
in and are put in front of me in the same round we are in........I'll admit...I get pretty
flustered.  I don't say anything....(I am a lady...believe it or not) but I probably
won't go back and if I'm asked why I don't go there.... Then I will tell them.  But on
the other hand if we are close to the end of the round and new singers come in and are put at the end of the round....I just chalk it up to "The Rotation is Getting Longer".   I know I have to wait longer to sing again but I know where I'm going
to sing.  No second guessing.  I can handle that.

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

I guess I really don't understand this at all.  
When you think you have about 5 or 6 to go (again say you are singer number 1), and you get 11 new singers, you would much rather wait the original 5 or 6 you thought PLUS now wait an additional 11 singer & you chalk it up to "The rotation is getting longer"?, rather than having your kj try to get YOU up as soon as possible by putting the new singers in between the old to get the old singers up as fast as they can - in the sense giving them a shot at singing more while the new singers will sing less - but still get to sing.  By doing it the end of the line way, it would be possible (although highly unlikely) that a rotation may NEVER start over if new singers keep coming in & getting added to the end - but this is fair to the people that HAVE been there all night?  
I really must be dense, because I just don't understand how.  I usually get on average of 30-40 singers (with over 2/3rds of that regular repeat singers every weekend with the insert method) & if the singers are complaining, they sure aren't leaving & there are literally 100's of other shows in a 10 mile radius they could go to so it isn't a only show in town type of thing.  
The old singers are STILL going to sing more than the new singers.

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Yes and if you're number two behind Bill and 10 people come in just before the end of the rotation  say 14 of 16, instead of waiting maybe  4-5 singers (maybe) to sing again, you will have to wait for 13 singers and 10 of them have been in the bar maybe 5-10 minutes to your hour- hour and a half.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

Now I see why people need computer to run the rotation system: just seem too compilcated to me. Our system is still the best and very simple;I can run it blindfolded

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

I go to a really nice karaoke show, they have posted rules in all the books.

The rule with adding new singers is that each new singer will be added 4 songs later in the rotation in the order they are recieved.

So it would go

1
2
3
4
NEW
5
6
7
8
NEW
9
10
11
12
NEW

This way if they show up really late in the show, they are SOL and should come back earlier next time. I think this is really the best way too, especially because the rules are there for everyone to read.