Karaoke Forums

Huge, huge, huge pressure.  I fully realize there is no good solution here.  First, the good news.

When I took over the Friday shift at this club Friday was DEAD.  A good night was ten singers, the bar would do under $500.  Over the last 60 days in particular a good night is 30 to 35 singers and the bar does over $1,000.  Things have gotten so busy they had to hire a waitress for the tables, the bartender was overwhelmed.

Last week was simply in a word - HORRIBLE.  Just HORRIBLE.  I had 33 singers and a steady stream of new singers all night long, even up to 12:45 PM.  My last singer was a new singer.  I had to deal with it all:

1)  Folks putting in slips with no song info (CDG/track)
2)  Folks putting in multiple slips with different names to try to get more turns up
3)  A couple of singers I've never seen before INSISTING that new singers should sing within the first 3 or 4 songs.

For me - last week - this gig was so bad and I left feel so beat I was ready to say, find someone else.  So now I have a few hours to go and I get to do this all over again.  I can put my foot down as usual and do the Disneyland rotation (if singer number eight is singing and you give me a slip then you go in AHEAD of singer number eight) or just say %$#^!$#@ and when I get a new singer, stick 'em in four and them make them wait a full rotation plus four.

Cripes it shouldn't be this darn complicated - this is suppose to be fun.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

1.  If it is too busy, have them fill out the number info (I don't care so much about song title), but it had better be correct.  If it isn't busy (or I have the time - usually right before I cue it up), I will go ahead & look up the number.
2.  Insist & enforce 1 slip at a time.  When they sing, they can bring up another.  If they turn one in & bring up another, ask them which one they want to sing first & hand them back the other (MAKE A SIGN - Sing One Bring One!).
3.  This is the way i've always done it.  First round establishes a base round.  If it continues to grow past a certain time, I start filtering those slips into the next round.  New singers are generally up within 1/2 hour, but have had it where they have had to wait over an hour as well.  I have seen some places that stick all the new singers at the end of a rotation, well then all the people that have been there all night have to wait a seemingly longer time.  When the new singers are intermixed, then the old singers are still getting up and it won't SEEM as long - although you will ALWAYS get the complainers no matter what system you decide to use.  Even the ride line method can screw someone out of a turn just as easy as the insertation method.  Just be consistant on what ever method you use & do not change it from night to night.

Who said it is supposed to be fun?  This IS a job!  Make it as fun as you can but still be in control.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Lon is right on it as usual.  It's YOUR show and you have to maintain control.  You are breeding lazy singers who will continue to give you grief.  Check the slips as they come in and have them fill them out completely.  If one sneaks in set it on the side and when they come to ask where their song is, hand back the slip and tell them to fill it out the rest of the way.  

As for singers filling out slips with multiple names, I have an etiquette page in my songbooks that says that behavior will result in you not singing for the rest of the show.  PERIOD.  I see that guy grab a mic, I bump his song and move on to the next.  

I know you've been struggling with rotation, and I feel the Disneyland system is the best for large rotations. It's also a very simple concept to explain.  You sign up, you go to the end of the line.  Sign up again and you go back to the end of the line.  

As far as new singers insisting that they should sing first, you can either tell them

A) to get there earlier
B) to invest in their own karaoke company so they can run it the way THEY see fit.

Sure, you may piss off a few people but if you have the rotation size you have you are doing something right, and you can afford to lose the few complainers you anger.  The rest of the people will appreciate the fair and honest job you do and will keep coming back.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

First Come First Served!!!!  Yea finally people get it, I agree as I am early and stay till closing and I spend alot of money on beer, why should someone who just gets there sing before me? let them sing two if slow but never change the first come first serve or play favorites. My money spends just as good at another bar if that happpens

Has anyone ever ask the Bar owners? I'm sure they would want the people spending money to be happy.

Standing in line at a Walmart for 20 minutes, do you let someone who just got there in front of you??

Just a thought

The "First Come First Serve" policy seems to be the one that is mostly used
and accepted in this area.  No one likes to have been there all night and have
someone come in later just to be put in front of you in the rotation.  We know
when the round starts over that we will still be singing in the same spot "after Suzie"
and anyone coming in goes to the end of the round.   We have several bars that
the owner is actually the KJ and this seems to definitely be the method that they use.
Another thing that works here is we don't use that many slips.   Most of the KJ's around here keep a card on you with the songs you sing and the numbers.  We only turn in a slip if we want to do something new and that one is added to our card.  And new people turn in slips.  Of course this wouldn't work in a place where your customers are constantly changing.  There are at least 6 KJ's in this area that have a card or a list of my songs on their computer of what I like to sing.  These are the places that I enjoy going to the most.  Pretty Hassle free.  I used this method also
when I KJ'd so I think it works well from both sides.

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

Oh, for the LOVE OF GOD!!

"Singers INSIST"??? In a PIG'S Eye!!!

YOU are in charge. NOT them! It's YOUR rules.

The "sing one - bring one" philosophy is fine, but when they have multiple slips or requests, you can STILL stack them. As for the multiple singers bit, that's why I have A VERY CLEAR RULE about a duet is a turn for ALL singers!! ESPECIALLY during busy times! If there is multiple singers signing up multiple times trying to fool you, announce on the mic that if they TRY to fool you, step forward, take the mics BACK or turn them off and shut the music DOWN HARD. NOTHING will get people's attention other than SILENCE!

Take a moment to announce or review the rules. A lot of kjs do that during long intermissions of a song that they're singing. I have rules on splash screens I throw up between singers!

As everyone here has replied... it's YOUR show. NOT theirs. Congratulations on your success, but with success also comes new stress of maintaining control. REMIND people that you have over XX amount of singers, and the average rotation is 15 singers per round... it'll TAKE TIME to get to everybody.

Do NOT relinquish control! Some people may have a problem with enforcement of rules... but guess what? It's usually those that want to VIOLATE the rules that complain that you're taking away the FUN of karaoke.

Look, in amusement parks, they have barriers and lines. Run your rotation LIKE that. A virtual line with ropes!

First come first served doesn't work. The goal is for the bar to make as much money as possible, in turn you get paid more by the bar.

I take as many slips as people would like to turn in, I place only one in my rotation.

I stop at 2 am, so anyone that has a slip in before 1 am I pretty much try my best to get them up.

I place new singers in front of anyone that has allready sang. (Most times someone new coming in is going to spend more money at the bar than someone that been there for 2 hours)

Most of my singers know me so generally there are few problems.

It's a balance keeping everyone happy, find what works best for you and your singers and stick with it at all of your shows.

so how would you keep everyone happy by inserting new singers in front of people who have been there buying drinks and paying their fair share. have these new singers put as much money in the bar as the people that have been there for two hours? How? buying a round?? The others will CONTINUE to buy drinks, where someone that comes in late will buy their FIRST round and rarely buy another!

This is what I hate about the insert methods... you're actually penalizing those that have been there first, and been paying their fair share! In a vain effort to make everyone happy, you actually make others unhappy.

To those that complain that they only sing once that night, my response is "get here earlier!"

you are never going to make everyone happy- the key is to find the methods that optimize the "happiness" factor in your environment... those factors are fluid from one bar to another and nothing is set in stone... saying something simply doesn't work is simply not true because it may not work for YOU but it may work for THEM... obviously all of these methods work because they are being used actively in clubs... the choice becomes which parts you want to incorporate into your own show that will work with your own philosophy, your customers, and the bar establishment... is it how I would run a show??? maybe, maybe not, but am I running your show??? nope... you are... the host sets the boundaries and then has to live or die by those decisions... I think it is important, as a few others have said, that YOU maintain a certain level of control and direction of the show... letting your audience dictate, or insist, how you run your show is only asking for pain and suffering on your part... as Master of Ceremonies (MC) you dictate the flow, energy and substance of the show and it is your job to train your audience to follow your rules not for them to train you.... good luck- tig

You run your show and rotation, whether it's an insert method or not (and many have their own views on this) and be consistant about it.  Do not let anyone bully you as to which method is, it is a personal choice.  Just be consistant.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

We have been mixing new singers into the rotation without any complaints that have been brought up to us. The first rotation is new singers to the back. Once we get through the first rotation then we start mixing. Old , new , Old, new. And if I get to the end of the rotation and still have new to mix in then they get mixed at the beginning of the rotation.

the problem isn't the people you see who aren't complaining, it is the people you don't see who aren't complaining... majority of people do not complain - they just leave and don't come back... if your market can support that kind of turnover then great... good luck..- tig

I feel as long as you keep it constant.... Keep the rotation the same, Keep a good attadude, Stand by your rules you have set. Yes you will loose some.

Ones who want to take cutts in rotation so they can go home now (3 hours later after 2 more songs)

Ones who think they should get to sing when ever the want.

Ones who bar hop and expect that when they come back they again are first in rotation to sing.

ones who get so drunk they forget there is 15 + signgers and say that  I am skipping them.

You can never make everyone happy so have rules set and fallow them. What upsets me the most is unfair rotations, drunk KJ's, 1 hour untill closing and they play 30 min dance music, my buddy just came in late so he getts to sing twice in a row, making rude comments over mic or just being loud about other singers. Skipping singers.

unfortunately Greg, Tig is right. You may feel that the mixing of singers is acceptable, but people that are sticklers may or may not put up with it.

Where the rub is... if these patrons will keep coming back.

Givin the choice of a host that puts the singers in the end of the rotation, where the singers know immediately who they're following, or a host that mixes, I'll choose the former every time. I'll even suffer other things that may mean something to me. Bad mics, average sound. Stuff like that.

So if you were at a show that stuck new singer at the end of the round - say you were first, the rotation is sitting at number 7 of 10 singers.  You know you have 3 to go, now walks in 15 new singers, the host sticks them in at the end of the rotation.  Now you have 18 singers to go.  This is more acceptable rather than filtering them in where you may have to wait an extra 2 - 4 songs??
The wait is STILL going to be there regardless of how a rotation is run.  I would rather be at the latter show that mixed the singers in as I would rather be working toward my turn as they are still going down the list, but either way, the wait is going to be there.  If all new singers go to the end of the list, then the wait is ALL at the end plus the original rotation - sure you get to keep your same spot, but you are still going to wait the same amount of time & possibly sing less because of it.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

But Matt's problem is it's his way or the highway for all shows.  We have an average rotation of 20-25 singers on the weekend, 10-15 the weekdays depending on the venue.  We have a core of regulars there every week, some every other week, some once a month.  So if one or two leave so be it.  People will be finicky about different things.  As long as we have a good crowd and they're having fun, you've done your job.

What will keep me at a show is sound, selection and consistancy of rotation regardless of the method used.  I would never leave a show cause they use a rotaion system different than mine.  I'm there for a good time, I don't sit there and write the rotation down.

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You can be strange but not a stranger

In my country rotation is seldom an issue simply because all of the karaoke outlets pectized the same system and all customers know the system. We use numbered tables

Where you sit determined when you sing. If the singing start from table 5 then the next will be from table 6 then  table 7and on it goes. One singer /one song per rotation per table.

multiple request from the same table are common; the kj have slots/box/clips, to arrange those slips according to the tables. This way the kj can pick any songs from the stack for that particular table. A good kj will play different song for different singer from the same table in each rotation since only one singer is to sing per rotation per table.

Late comers depending on where they are sited may not have to wait too long; so a regular to the place coming in late will know which table to take if they dont want to wait for too long!

Duet and group sing is never an issue. It count as turn in the rotation from which ever table sent in the slip.

I guess it cant be done if the place have karaoke only on Fri.

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I can neither confirm nor deny ever having or knowing anything about nothing.... mrscott

If your rotation system works for you and is fair then stay with it. You will loose more people by changing your rotation. Tonight we will put new to the back. Tomorrow we mix. Next week we do something else....

Be fair and make sure the singers know how the rotation works. Talk to new singers and explain to them how you do the rotation so there is no suprises. I know some night it seems we don't have time except to spin the disks but I make time to get out and talk to them.

poopy computer.