Karaoke Forums

Just thinking about the songs we post here...

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~Suzanne Lanoue~

None of the above..... none of that has really happened to me... mine aren't rankable.. I am still unsure what fluff is.. what ISN"T "many" or "enough" comments, or views? (is there like, a set reasonable amount?) and... no negative comments on my submissions.


But, sometimes I get bothered about absolutely nothing, and take them down.. but, what bothers ME is ME... not things other people do, or say, or rank....

If ANYTHING is bothering ya, a whole lot... then... don't submit, or talk to the person being negative, or fluffy, or... whatever.... and.. why is a rank below a 9 bad?! (No, i don't want to get into THAT again..) But, it makes no sense to contribute to seomthing that is bothersome.. eh?, wa?

[font=andalus]I guess I'd have to say none of the above for me as well.  What does bother me, is that I get busy or involved doing other things, and don't get back right away to all of those who are kind enough to leave comments... I always feel really bad.  And before I know it, it's been a couple of days or MORE and it feels weird going back to answer so late.  I get a little sad when I don't get a lot of comments and I have spent hours on a song... BUT I do realize that a LOT of what happens here is of a reciporacle  nature, and I just am not around enough and commenting enough, so sadly that's just how it works out sometimes...  It sometimes stings when I get a song that everyone has said is freakin' awesome or something and it stays a 10 for a while  and then all of the sudden someone gives it an 8 and it drops.. yea, i'm human, that stings, but for a second, and then I realize that it doesn't matter, and if that's what they thought I deserved than that is fine....   Ok, I'm rambling now, so I'll stop, soooo.. the short answer is.. BOTH "all of the above" AND "none of the above".. Each thing can make me go.. "hmmm" i don't like that much.. but none of them really give me any grief....[/font]

Hi JB,

The new topic post I just made a few minutes ago might help take away that "sting" from the lower ranking. There seems to be a system glitch where if someone goes back to your song page edits a comment they made - even if they gave you a 10 - the system clears that 10 and drops the ranking they gave you to 0  :O  and that will then change your song's overall ranking depending on how many others ranked the song, too. So it may not have been them intetionally giving you a lower ranking but just editing a comment and having their 10 ranking reduced to 0. Check my topic post titled "Glitch? Ediited Comments Clears Ranking" for details.

Hugs  :hug:

I'll go ahead and be the silly one that chooses the "getting less than a 9 ranking" option, but I thought I'd explain why, since that sounds like such a "princess and the pea" complex. (Yeah, I know it is...)

First, it's not every song that that matters. If it's a song I did as an experiment, or just for fun, or if I can hear plenty of imperfections in it myself, I'm fine with how it gets ranked. I had a song posted yesterday that now has a 9 rating, and personally, I think that's generous. There’s another song I posted last week that still has a 9.2 or so… again, a very generous ranking considering how badly my voice cracked in places. But some songs I spend a lot of time on, going through note by note, beat by beat, making sure it all sounds right, etc. Those songs I'm a lot more sensitive about, I suppose.

It's not that I expect everyone to think every song is perfect... I know that won’t happen, since not every song will appeal to every listener. But I think I have a decent voice, and I’m starting to think that maybe I can do something with it someday… if not commercially, then at least some kind of performing or entertaining. And with that in mind, I want to develop a style that appeals to as many people as possible.

The ranking is an average that tells me how well my song is connecting with those who listen to it. If most people totally love it, it’ll probably end up a 9.6 or higher. If some people totally love it, and others think it’s pretty good, then it’ll probably have a 9.3, something like that. Once you get below a 9.0, though, that means the majority of those who listened to it found something lacking – and if it’s a song I consider to be some of my best work, then that’s a reality call that tells me I’m not hearing things the way the listeners are.

I don’t want people to think I get mad if someone ranks me lower than a 10, because I don’t at all! The only time I actually got irritated at how someone ranked me was one time right after I started posting songs here, when one of my songs went one day from a 9.1 or so rating to a 7.3!! That means that someone rated my song like what... a 3? a 4? And with no comment to explain why they apparently thought it was so abysmal.

Anyway, I’ve had several songs ranked under a 9.0, and I’ve picked those as the ones to take down, re-record and hopefully improve… so when I say that that “bothers me,” it’s more that I’m bothered that I didn’t perform as well as I thought I did, rather than being bothered at the people who gave me the ranking. Does that make sense…? Or am I just way oversensitive?

Hi Amy,

You definitely need to read the new topic post I just made titled "Glitch? Edited Comment Clears Ranking" because that "9.1" to "7.3" sounds exactly like a case of the "Glitch Who Stole Good Rankings" (a Singer's Showcase sequel to The Grinch Who Stole Christmas.") If someone who gave you a "10" that created the "9.1" rating then went back and just edited their comment it would have reduced that 10 to a 0 and then reduced your overall ranking for the song! So the reason you saw no new comment explaining the "bad ranking" is because there was no new comment - only an edited previous comment which altered the ranking from a 10 to a 0 and so dropped your song to the 7.3.

Hugs  :hug:

I can't answer that since there was no option that said:

People who whine about how many comments, who comments, how comments are worded, how fast someone responds to a sub or comment, rankings, page views, mouse clicks and passing thoughts they get....

First of all, let me make it clear I am not saying that these things bother me (at least not too much) or I wouldn't bother subbing.  I was just thinking about the subs, and past comments on the forum, and figured it would be a fun poll.

"Fluff", at least as I take the term to mean, is when people say nice things no matter how crappy it is (that is, they're not being honest).

As for "many" or "not enough", it is all subjective, the poll is asking about how YOU feel. I just picked the 9 out of the air, too....

I like to get lots of comments but lately it seems people are not commenting as much, I dunno...maybe it's just a bad time of year or something.

_________________
~Suzanne Lanoue~

Amy, I understand exactly what you meant!  Just try not to take it too personally...people have all sorts of reasons why they rank and how they rank.

Tig, that was very rude, but I am used to that from you. I wasn't whining whatsoever, just taking a poll.  If you don't like it, feel free to skip it!  In case you haven't noticed, the forum has been pretty dead lately.  I felt like posting while I was listening to songs, but there wasn't much to comment on, so I made a poll. I have to get my points somehow


I admit I am disappointed if these things happen, but it's not like a big deal or anything.

BTW I have gotten some very nice emails lately from SS members about the songs, commenting, etc. and it has been really enjoyable.  We've had some nice exchange of ideas.  I just wish people felt more comfortable posting these things publicly.

_________________
~Suzanne Lanoue~

Don't worry about Tigg, Suzanne, I like this thread just fine - I'm sure a lot of these topics have been discussed to death here, but keep in mind I'm still new here (my first sub was barely over a month ago!) and I'm still getting accustomed to the whole politics of comments, rankings, etc.

Why don't they? I don't understand that.... Ok, but, not my business;) I know how it is, people do the same with me.. but to ME, it is like.. we are TALKING about "life" online... why not discuss it publicly, ONLINE!?!


Lol, yeah, the whole fluff thing only confuses me... because.. well, online, the "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all" doesn't really work... because, you CAN"T comment on EVERY single submission.... so, the people you DON"T listen to... do they think you just  had nothing nice to say?:) But, if I listen to a submission, that WAS horrendous.... and, honestly, no advice I could offer, to fix ANYTHING enough to even make it listenable...- I don't say a darn thing. But, i mean, if what you said, is what fluff is...

Than my husband is one huuuuuge fluffer:) ("Honey, do these pants look good on me", "honey, how does my hair look up like this"?) Lol, not that i WANT him to be honest... does everyone HERE truely want honesty?


oh oh, I am babbling.

(And, suzanne, I didn't mean anythinng that I said- rudely. Just wanna put that out there.)

The fluff thing doesn't bug me much. Sure, getting a "that was totally awesome" from someone like Jee or Gilly means a lot, because I *know* they'd tell me if they thought otherwise... but even if someone posts nothing but nice things ever on subs... they still took the time to listen and comment, so why on earth would I complain about that?

Oh, girl... don't ask... just... walk away frooooom the fluff.... walk AWAY from the fluff......


(besides, seriously, it TASTES good, but, it can get pretty sticky if you start rubbing it all your body and... and.... andddd...... um... never mind...)

>>Why don't they? I don't understand that.... Ok, but, not my business;) I know how it is, people do the same with me.. but to ME, it is like.. we are TALKING about "life" online... why not discuss it publicly, ONLINE!?!>>

Well, I don't ask them, but I assume some people are reluctant to talk about stuff publicly for fear of being blasted or having people say rude things to them. It's happened on many occasions on other forums I've been on.  Or if they are giving me critique for my songs, they figure I would rather have it privately.

I stopped being completely honest with my comments on the songs, unless someone says specifically they want it, because I felt like I was giving unwanted advice and/or hurting people's feelings, so I sometimes put "PM or email me if you want to see the more criticial comments".  So, sometimes people email me about that and I give them the comments.  They might not want the whole world to hear my comments, if they are too negative.  Some people are insecure, you know?  Heck, most of us are!

Not everyone likes posting comments on a public board because they are shy or feel they don't write well, many reasons...

>>Lol, yeah, the whole fluff thing only confuses me... because.. well, online, the "if you have nothing nice to say, don't say anything at all" doesn't really work... because, you CAN"T comment on EVERY single submission.... so, the people you DON"T listen to... do they think you just  had nothing nice to say?:) But, if I listen to a submission, that WAS horrendous.... and, honestly, no advice I could offer, to fix ANYTHING enough to even make it listenable...- I don't say a darn thing. But, i mean, if what you said, is what fluff is...
Than my husband is one huuuuuge fluffer:) ("Honey, do these pants look good on me", "honey, how does my hair look up like this"?) Lol, not that i WANT him to be honest... does everyone HERE truely want honesty?>>

Well, personally, I do want honesty in my song comments.  Not to mean I only want to hear bad things...I would like to hear honest criticism, and I think by and large I do get those.  But some people don't like to say anything negative, it's just not their nature or they don't want to hurt anyone's feelings.

>>And, suzanne, I didn't mean anythinng that I said- rudely. Just wanna put that out there.)>>

Oh I know!!!  You are not being rude at all.  Don't worry!!

_________________
~Suzanne Lanoue~

Suzanne, that's nearly the exact defination for "Fluff"...

When people give out comments that are LESS than honest, it's fluff. It's also the reason I stopped subbing, because in nearly every single one of my subs, I asked for HONEST input. and I STILL got the "Hey Great Job" "You really nailed This!" etc. etc. ((puke)) etc. aud nauseum.

The singer's Showcase is NOT about honesty. It's a feel good romp in a playground for online singers to have fun with. Once I learned that, I stopped participating.

People don't want honest comments (at least most don't). Because the truth would destroy most of the singers. From the time since Seby first came on board and JVJ, this site has been rocked to it's foundation because they dared to give honest feedback... and people lost their fricken minds!

For a while I tried to fight it like they did. Eventually, I realized you can't.

Tig wasn't RUDE. He was HONEST. He wasn't talking just about this poll, he was talking about everyone that does that same type of behavior. A simple look thru this site and it's archives will find you thread after thread of those of us (and I'm one of them) that complained about participation in the showcase.

Well, I will take your word for it that he wasn't talking about my poll, but it sure sounded like that to me...and given our history, seemed likely.

I don't think that what I do is "fluff".  Just because you compliment someone's singing, it doesn't mean you are being dishonest.  I never lie on the comments. I say nice things for the most part because I like the singing and don't hear anything wrong with it (if I was that picky about singing, I wouldn't go out to karaoke, either; it would be too painful).  When I tell someone to IM me for their more criticial comments, I am just saying that I don't want to publicly embarrass them with the things I see that are "wrong" with the song.  Only a few people have emailed or PMed me about them, so I guess it's those people who choose to be ranked and criticized that are not being honest because obviously they really don't want to hear criticial comments.  YOU have no idea whether people are being honest with you or not when they say nice things.  Ever think that maybe you are just pickier than they are?  Sure, some of them just don't want to hurt your feelings, maybe...but that doesn't mean they all are.  It is very cynical of you to think that everyone is lying just because they say nice things to you.  Why do you submit the songs if you think they are so bad? I don't know about you, but for the most part I submit my best stuff.  YOU are always going to be your own worst critic.

The people who do critique me in a negative way, for the most part I don't agree with what they've said, anyway.   And I think some people are overly-critical.  If we could submit a song from a professional rock star that was recorded in an amateur way, these people would probably find fault with them, too.  So much of "judging" a song has to do with personal tastes, perception (which changes), your recording equipment, how good you are at mixing, what kind of speakers you have, etc. not to mention the basic voice you were given and what you do with it.  Some people just have bad or damaged voices; should we just always give them a 0, no matter how hard they try or how much they improve?    What would be the point and how would it help them?

I'm sorry you are so discouraged...I enjoy SS and what I get out of it, no matter what people say.

_________________
~Suzanne Lanoue~

Suzanne,

I'm very honest when I sub songs. I'll flat out state "Sorry, the beginning was a bit off, but after that, I seemed to warm up to it. Can I have your honest opinions please?"

And that's exactly what I mean!

So to get the "Keep on rockin' it out dude" kinda comments doesn't tell me ANYTHING I need to improve my performance. And I think you're 100% wrong when you state "so I guess it's those people who choose to be ranked and criticized that are not being honest because obviously they really don't want to hear criticial comments. " Where on EARTH do you come up with this one? It's the "Just for FUN" people that don't really want to hear critical comments!! The ones that ASK for the critique are putting themselves on the line... or at least it is in my mind, and in the original idea behind the main two types of submissions!

And I've done what you do... ask people if they really want a complete critique. Like you, I've had VERY few really take me up on it.

It seems reasonable that "not many comments" and "negative comments" would tie in your poll Suzanne.  Performers like to be acknowledged.

I know that there is usually a lot of activity here, and most of us have a life (including work) which takes us away from being able to listen as diligently as we would like. So I understand that listening to everything posted (or at least a significant number is virtually impossible). I guess the only thing that bothers me are the few occasions where I have spent literally hundreds of hours on a song which gets very little attention (less than 10 total views- including one that has 2 total views and one that has a total of 3 total views). Sorry, didn't mean to digress, or especialloy sound like I might have been whining.

I think you missed what I'm saying.  Those people that DON'T take you up on it are the ones I'm saying that aren't being honest.  Understand?  In other words, they are saying "critique me" instead of "just for fun", yet when you give them the choice to hear those negative ocmments, they don't take you up on it.  At least the "just for fun" people are being completely honest--they don't want critique.

I like the positive comments...it's good for my ego  

I would really like to hear more of your songs, Matt.  There are a bunch of people here giving honest comments now (at least 5 that I can think of) so why not give it another try?  Just say, "give me your honest comments and no fluff please!" when you post.

BTW look at my poll, 25% of people who responded don't want negative comments.  Yet I would guess at least 90% of the songs posted ask for critique....I guess it's reality, in a way, most of us want people to be honest AND we only want to hear positive comments. In other words, we want everyone to think we're great and for it to be real! !!

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~Suzanne Lanoue~