Karaoke Forums

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If You Want Something You've Never Had , You're Going To Have To Do Something You've Never Done

awww man ...I wanted you to send me some

My, you're an ornery one, aren't you?!  HAHA!!  I thought you'd send some my way, too!!!

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"Life is the song, Love is the music"

Figured this had to be a joke hehe

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I LOVE YOU KERMY!!!!

I do love downloading music.  I download almost all of my music currently but still purchase an occasional CD and I purchase ALL my CDG's.

I've gotten really great tunes! I've picked up a lot of bands that I've never heard of that did some AWESOME music and few that I have heard of.

Remember, just because you're downloading doesn't mean it's illegal.  If you're east of the border (for me anyway - I'm in Alaska) then the laws are different for you.

Yes, I like to get on my high horse and smack people for illegally obtaining CDG's.  But over the years I've obtained over 20,000 CDG tracks, hundreds of movies, likely hundreds of thousands of songs, and a couple thousand books.  I deleted every single bit of it when I started my karaoke business because I want to avoid any possibility of the appearance of inpropriety.  If I was using those tracks would I be busted?  Not likely, but I'd know I was doing something wrong....

And with the prices of the Spotlights down to under $17 each I'm about to start buying a WHOLE lots of discs....  If you don't know what I'm talking about, do a search for Sound Choice Mortar - your choice of 12 Spotlight discs from the 8000 series for $199. Woohoo!  (BTW, it's only discs in print.  No getting an 8125 in the package).

I for one, don't see the problem with downloading music. I have found concerts that would never be in stores, and I feel it's a great way for bands to get exposure, that ordinarily wouldn't. I think that the government should stay out of our business. There is no difference between downloading, and borrowing a cd or tape from a friend and recording it. The rcord industry makes too much money to begin with. They overcharge for ancient outdated music. I'm sorry, I'm not going to pay $15 for a 30 year old Led Zeppelin CD, when I can get it for free. The record companies have made more than their fair share of money. The cost of making the music has been paid, over and over again. There is also the problem of out of print material. Why am I going to live with out something I like, if it's out of print, when I can get lucky and find it on someone else's computer? There is alot of older stuff, like older Whitesnake, that you can't find on the market anymore. But I can find it through file sharing. Works for me. Not too mention that it costs about $4.00 to procuce a CD, and they charge $15 to $20 to buy it. I think that is wrong.


                             Just my $.02

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

No different than borrowing a CD from a friend?  Sure there is...

If you borrow it from a friend, you friend does without while you have their CD.

If you download it, you have a copy and so does your friend.

That, in and of iteself is the difference between the two and why there is such an ongoing debate over duplication of content.


Do I agree that the recording industry is using an outdated model and pushing garbage?  Sure I do.  I can't argue that, nor can I argue that the artists are getting hosed in the process.  That why you see some artists doing some pretty radical things - including one performer (from the Smithereen's IIRC) that was offering to do private shows for up to 100 people.  He'd come to your house for a fixed rate and you got to hand out with him before and after the performance.

All that aside, there are a variety of concerts that are available through online services.  If you doubt me check out the live performances on emusic.com.  They are slowly coming around.  You can also get a lot of older performances through some of the archival services that offer royalty free music.  I've found a large number of the Grateful Dead's concerts online there.  There are alternatives to piracy and many of them are VERY cost effective.

I won't go into the whole out of print arguement.  Why?  Because I have a Sound Choice 8125 and Tim Curry's Greatest Hits.  They were both long out of print and I was able to obtain them quite easily (admittedly, for a price).  Could I have just downloaded them online?  Sure, but I opted for another alternative.  BTW, much of Whitesnake's early albums can be found in pawn shops, used CD stores, and the like.

Music has been copied for a long time.  I can remember as a little girl
making tapes from the radio!  It's hard for me to believe that there is anyone with a computer that has never downloaded a song or has not taken a CD and copied it.  I am a collector of 33 lp's and 45's.  I put these on CD's for my own listening pleasure.  I don't think it should be done to make money but for your own listening pleasure...I don't see anything wrong with it.   We all spend plenty of money each year on music.   Unfortunately there are people that abuse it but I don't think the majority of the people do.    Look on some of your CDG's......they say "unauthorized copying, hiring, lending, 'public performance and broadcasting' of this record prohibited".  Did you catch the "public performance" part?  So now what?
As big as the karaoke industry is.........public performance is prohibited?  Give me a break!

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

Yes, but if everyone continues to download music, there will be less & less spent per year.  What that basically means is that record companies are not going to record new music or promote new artists.



The rub here is "unauthorized" public performance.  A licensed club is not unauthorized.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

Hey, I have a computer.  That gives me the right to get anything I want, in any quantity, at any time, for free.

I love America.

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Reward: nine yen in drawer.

"The rub here is "unauthorized" public performance.  A licensed club is not unauthorized."


Your club is not authorized just because it has a license.......
Either you as the KJ or the club has to pay ASCAP fees and all clubs don't do this.
ASCAP targeted a few of the bars around here a few years ago and they had to start
paying ASCAP just for having a jukebox and extra if they had karaoke.[/quote]

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SAY IT WITH MUSIC!!!!

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

If you only want a sing song or two from an artist there are alternatives - iTunes, Wal-Mart, Napster, the list goes on.  You can order the tracks one at a time and only get what you want without having to deal with the whole cd.

Keep in mind that there are at least four different ideas being presented here - format shifting, time shifting, illegal copies, and unauthorized performance.

1. Format shifting is the copying of copyrighted content from one medium to another.  Legal.  This is copying your 33/45's to computer, ripping a CD, etc.  It's taking music you own and shifting it to another format.  In the United States this has been interpreted as legal for personal use.  Commercial use of any of the format shifted material is illegal under the interpretation of the law but not usually prosecuted because of the general lack of damages.

2. Copying material from the radio.  Legal.  Since the Univeral vs. Sony decision (AKA the BetaMax decision) this has been legal.  This allows you to 'time shift' your radio listening to another time period.

3. Unauthorized performance. Performance of music in a venue requires BMI, ASCAP, or SESAC liscensing.  Jukebox companies usually have their own licensing paid for outside of the requirements of the venue.  In other words the jukebox usually comes with a license.  Mechanical playing of music and live music are licensed a little differently.  Just because you are legal with the jukebox doesn't mean that karaoke (which is considered live music) is legal.  Appropriate licenses are required by the venue.  If you are playing in a venue that isn't licensed then it's your responsibility to obtain licensing or outline that it's the responsibility of the venue to obtain licensing (to prevent your being held responsible for the lack of licensing).

4. Illegal copies.  This is outright piracy.  It's obtaining a copy of copyrighted material for which you don't own a copy or the right to reproduce.  If you get music 'for free' from your friends, the interenet, etc then it's illegal.

Am I on a high horse about the legalities?  In a way, yes.  I dumped all my illegal music long ago and have since purchased every track I have.  I don't want any possibility of impropriety in my business.  I have friends that still get music illegally and I've listened to some of it.  I've even bought some of the tracks after listening to it.

Keep in mind I'm refering to my experience with US law, and not with any other country.  I'm not a lawyer, don't play one on tv, and recommend you obtain legal counsel before you make any decisions regarding the above.

[/quote]

Licensed as in I meant ASCAP, BMI, SESAC for karaoke - performance rights basically.  If the clubs have these licenses, then it is no longer an unauthorized public performance - that is what the statement on the disc means.

The clubs are responsible to pay these fees.  They need to pay basically a different fee for damn near every kind of entertainment ie live music, dj, karaoke, tv, radio, MUZAK.  They need a license for jukebox, video games, DANCE FLOOR.  The list goes on.  This is why many clubs (@$%&#!) about the karaoke fee because it isn't covered under the live or dj license, it needs an additional license to cover the mechanical (graphics/words) rights.

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LIKE Lonman on Facebook - Lonman Productions Karaoke & my main site via my profile!

It's all about rich people getting richer. These ASCAP people are just getting richer and richer, and don't want you to download music, cause it hurts their bottom line.  And downloading a bootleg copy of a concert, from 20 years ago, doesn't hurt anyone. The bands made there money when the concert happened. They might have chosen not to put the concert out on disk, so it's too bad for them if someone recorded it, and lets people download it.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

ASCAP/SESAC/BMI have very little to do with the artists.  They have to do with the songwriters and/or labels who typically hold the copyright on the music.  They collect fees for the public performance of the material and have nothing to do with the collection of fees for the distribution of the material.

The Harry Fox Agency collects fees based on the distribution of the material.

ASCAP/BMI/SESAC could care less if your music is pirated.  You could have a million tracks and all of them stolen from the Internet or bootleg concert recording and they could care less.  They simply get a fee for the playing of those tracks in a public setting.

RIAA (Recording Industry Association of America), MPAA (Motion Picture Association of America) and similar agencies represent labels and 'copyright holders' who are 'harmed' by the illegal copying of material.  They distribute the fees based on collections from a variety of sources, including the Harry Fox Agency.

BTW, the Harry Fox agency is who handles the collection of fees for the reproduction of copyrighted material.  Once you have permission to reproduce a copyrighted track you pay a fee per copy which they collect and distribute back to the original copyright holder.

Again, there are more and more sources for legal music the and price is coming down.  I get 300 tracks a month from eMusic.com at a cost of $50 or about 17 cents per track.  I have gotten other tracks from sources that charge as low as 5-10 cents per track (based on size of the track).

Does illegal music hurt the artist?  Does it hurt the labels?  It hurts a lot of groups in the industry.  No the artist doesn't get rich off of album sales that often.  That's why when I go to a concert I buy my CD's and T-Shirts there since most of the proceeds at the concert go to the band or production company which is more likely to provide accurate accounting to the band than the label.

Want to know more about the music industry?  I HIGHLY recommend 'What They'll Never Tell You About The Music Business' by Peter M. Thall.

BTW, many of the older concerts from many groups have been released to the public domain.  Especially the larger 'underground' groups like Grateful Dead.  Doubt my words?  Check out http://www.archive.org.  A collection of public domain and royalty free music (among other things) can be found here - including a Grateful Dead concert from more than 35 years ago!  And no, I'm not a deadhead but I do enjoy free (AND LEGAL) music!