Karaoke Forums

Quick question regarding new singers -  Do you guys go strictly based on when a person turns in a slip, or do you give preference to someone who has been there all night and finally decided to put a song in?  

If someone walks in that I know is a singer, I generally will judge his/her spot in the rotation based on when they walk in, so they can say their hellos, get their drink, etc, without worrying about being passed over to sing.

Mike - Very well thought-out post.  I think I try to run mine that way, but I'm sure I screw it up here and there.

I'll put the singers in as they turn in the slips.  However, I do a little something special for my regulars.  I know it's a bit off topic, but I'll tell you about it anyway.

When someone is a die hard regular at my shows, I give them a plastic card.  Looks about the same size as a drivers license.  I have them made at a local printer and it has my business logo and web address on it and basically looks the same as my song slips except it is filled out with their name, and one of the songs that they do well.  

This card acts like a placeholder in line.  If they walk into the show late, they can just hand me the card and it will hold a spot for them just as if they had a song slip turned in.  That way they don't have to rush around to get one in, and their wait is as short as possible.  That card can work as a placeholder all night long.  It just stands in line for them until they turn in a slip.  If they don't turn one in, it just goes back to the end of the line when it would have been that person's turn to sing.  

This is just one of the perks that I give my customers to let them know that they are important to me and that I appreciate their business.

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

EVERYBODY is treated equally. I may KNOW the regulars, and they are welcomed in fun ways, (personal comments, special splash screens with their name (see the computer karaoke thread for more info on that), etc.)... but if someone's been there all night supporting the bar, when they had the slip, it's like they jumped to the end of the line. You slide them in, your trained customers will see it!!

you nailed it when ya said "your trained regulars"... it is my job to control the flow, energy, and presentation of the show- as well as all technical aspects of running the show... training the audience to your style and way of running a show (rotations, levels, interaction etc) is a large part of what we do... I have been to MANY shows where they are packed and the show, IMHO, is HORRIBLE, but the "regulars" know how things work and is acceptable to them so who am I to say they are doing things wrong?? there are as many ways to run a rotation, and show, as there are KJ's... as long as there is a "majority of fairness", i can live with it... it doesn't mean i will ever come back but it may mean that i stay longer and spend a little more money while i am there... it is the singer's who truly control whether a KJ lives or dies, and if the regulars are "trained" to accept the show- whether you or I agree with it or not- then viva la karaoke... - tig

No preference - when they hand in their slips.  Some of my trained regulars ask for their slips back, and I encourage that - they'll turn in a filled out slip of their regular material.

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

good points Tig. Nobody likes to admit it. What is a successful show to someone else is another person's garbage pile.

The main trouble is, singers CAN and DO accept mediocrity... be it cause they live nearby and shrug... they don't care as long as they get up to sing.

Maybe that's the crux of the problem. Nobody complains heavily unless they themselves are put out. One night, Tig and I went to a local compeitor's show. I got screwed over, Tig wasn't. We both seen the prefered treatment, and both of us just shrugged our shoulders... just another situation we've both gotten used to seeing, I guess.

yeah I have been taking notes on the current state of karaoke VS years ago and how to cure pirated gigs etc and will eventually put them all together in a "unibomber" like mandate/thesis... it will cover many subjects and i think, for most, it will create some brainstorming and conversations that hopefully will move karaoke from "novelty entertainment" (at least around here now) to the cash cow that it was, is and can still be when used and taken seriously... just a teaser for now LOL... - tig

I agree with ya, Tig & Matt!!  Karoake used to receive a lot more respect as "live entertainment"... but "lowballers" have hurt that horribly.  Low Prices usually = Low Quality and lots of unfair practices.  Some establishments are all for that ~~ and so be it for them.  NOT places we work ~ nor places we would WANT to work.

We have stuck to our "standards" ... we feel we are "quality entertainment" and we charge accordingly.  We've watched many others "come and go" ... but we've remained standing for many years (11+).  

And singers DO know and appreciate the difference.  Many of our gigs have come from "singer referrals" .... !!  Gotta love that!

We run a "bookmark" rotation ... and that bookmark either signifies the "bottom of the round ~~ (usually me, unless we are packed) ... or the "top of the next round" ~~ always the first person to turn in a slip.  As singers turn in slips, they are placed in the rotation.  When the bookmark is nearing the top ~~ we check to be sure that all "singers" in the room have had their turn in the rotation before the "bookmark" is loaded into the system and introduced.  Once that person sings .... the "next" round begins.  No one is ever bumped for a newer singer .... and everyone gets one slip per rotation.  I can't think of a single time when a singer who arrived early has sung equal to or less than someone who's arrived much later in the night.  Our policy is First come ~ First Served .... and its worked for years.  

As for regulars ~~ we have about 15-18 singers that "rarely" miss the show ~~ and usually another 10-15 singers who come to the show "off and on".  We rarely run a show with less than 25 singers .... most of whom are there before we have finished round one, and lately we've been having closer to 30-35 singers over the course of a night (5 hr. show).  

Yup ~~ Quality is subjective .... no question ... but I think SINGERS know the difference and really appreciate it  ~~ by attending the shows that are fair and sound better ~~ Karaoke IS quality LIVE entertainment.  

Hugz!!

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

I don't feel the lowballers are the problem... the pirates aren't the problem... can't blame the club owners for choosing a less expensive srvice- that is just good business (sorta LOL)... the remedy is to make the singers more responsible for their loyalty... if you KNOW a place is using a pirate or lowballer then MAKE IT KNOWN you will not spend your money there... if you go to a show and the rotation is all mucked up, KJ is bring bribed, or any other long list of no-no's, and you STAY and put up with it then do no complain about how bad it was LOL  if singers use their purchase power to dictate where they go based on QUALITY legal shows then the lowballers, pirates and push button outfits will not survive!  think about it, if no singers show up, or boycott etc, how long do you think that idiot will last at that location? he won't... but singers cannot just stop showing up at a place- they need to VOCALIZE and educate the management/owners on WHY they will not come back to their club.  if you show up every week and spend alot of money and complain about everything, do you think they will listen??? nope- your butt is still in a chair and your money is just as green as the next persons... singers must let the establishments know WHY they are not coming back so they don't blame it ON karaoke itself and shy away from giving a quality professional company come in and give the singers and karaoke the respect they deserve for their patronage... just a thought ...- tig

Yup...... You are VERY right Tig.  It does come down to the consumer.  If SINGERS demand the best ~~ and boycott AND voice why those shows aren't meeting their "wants and needs" ... Karaoke will have a chance to "revive" itself.  But... it has to come from the CONSUMER  ~~ AND  ~~  KJ's willing to stand their ground on "standards".

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[shadow=tomato]If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
  TALK IN YOUR SLEEP   [/shadow]  

This is why I am really enjoying the comments here  :).   After hearing all the different ways and opinions about the most fair rotation schedule, I really want to take on a more fair approach with my singers. I personally feel that you could have the best equipment, thousands and thousands of songs and years of experience...but if your rotation is run bad then your show won't succeed. The singers will generally judge you, as a karaoke host, by how well you ran the rotation over anything else.

I can truly say that I have one of the best sounding/looking setups in my area for karaoke, but my rotation needs help. This is why I wanted to know a better way of running a fair rotation so that I have a show that has the best of all variables. Thanks for the help y'all  :oh yeah:

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Barry C.
All Event DJ's & Karaoke

Rotaions:
I ask all singers to hand in one request slip at a time and bring another one when they are called to sing. ( Sing One Bring One).  I list all singers names on a erase board First come first served so they know who they follow.  Duets- I count them as 1 singers turn in the rotation - Mike can sing with Debbie , but he can also sing with Lori  in the same rotation ..but debbie cant sing with Lori  LMAO .  New singers are put at the end in a short rotation or mixed in 2 old to 1 new if the rotation is long.

rotations are not my problem usually its not the NEW singer but the LATE singer who busts my nuts all the time --You know they come in 10 minutes before your show ends all liguored up from some other bar and demands to sing before you close !!
I had one guy offer me $100 to let him sing once...Thinking back I should have taken it from him  :yes:

Hey Jama--maybe you misunderstand.  NEW singers and LATE singers are one and the same.  When I talk about a new singer, I'm talking about someone turning in their first slip of the night, whether it be at 9:00 or ten til closing.  

One way to avoid that is to pull your songbooks when it becomes obvious that you have more than enough songs to make it to the end.  

Duets are always tricky because without fail you always get a Mike (in your example) in the crowd.  I have one customer who is still kinda new to singing, so she wants to sing with 8 different people over the course of the evening.  Every song she turns in has two names on it.  Sux for the other people, because they get that duet in the rotation, then back to the end of the line with the both of them and they  don't get the chance to sing the solo numbers they turned in.  People soon realize that duet singing cuts down on their "ALONE TIME" in front of the mic.  I've actually seen people say, "You sing it alone, I wanna sing blah blah this round."  

Once again, I stress that this wouldn't be a big deal at all in a 7-10 singer rotation, but I generally get 25-35 singers so 1-3 trips to the mic a night is about all they get depending on how early they arrive.  They sure hate to waste one of them singing a song that they really didn't want to sing in the first place!

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Spreading the karaoke gospel

That's what we feel as well!

Susie

P.s. We may end up using that line!

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You do it in the shower,
you do it in the car,
Ccome do it with us,
and be a star!!!!

Karaoke with Full House Entertainment

[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

i do the strqaight rotation.  That is how i see everybody around here in ohio doing it.  In fact one of my competitors/friends got me hooked on the rotation board thing.

I have a board; his is quarter inch plywood, mine is a dry erase board; where there are binder clips attached to hold the slips in order (also a must if you play outside).

I go straight through the clips.  If a new singer comes in they go to the end of the line.

If the rotation is large I will cut it when i enter the last full row (usually 5 singers before end), and eanybod who comes after that point is at the end of the NEXT.

I do place-hold by flipping the slip over and writing the name on the back, or take the dry erase marker and put their name above their clip.

This works GREAT for us.  it is simple, and orderly.

If singer 9 walks up and we are on singer 3, I point to where we are, tap out the spots to their spot, they now know how many singer are ahead of them, and who they are after.

Duets:
if we have 1 to 10 singers, duets count for the person who put the slip in.
If we have 10+ duets count for each.  I put a do-dad (eraser, coin, another clip) across the slip of that person who is getting blocked so i know to skip them.
I do not EVER let back to back singing in duets...... i.e  singer 4 does a duet with singer 5, now singer 5 gets to sing again the next song, cause then it is OBVIOUS that that person has sung more than once in that rotation.

We also make exceptions to the rules.... like when a song is truly a duet (summer nights, save a horse, beer for my horses, i got u babe, anything that is scripted as a slpit duet), i tend to NOT count it as a turn for both

The only variation I have is that I put the person singing up when they come up.  If they're used to the sing one, bring one rotation style then they would be put at the end of the line when they bring up the next slip.

So the example of 1-2-5-6-3 would have been 1-2-3-5-6 since 5 and 6 came up after 3 started singing.

Hope that makes sense.  As for the plastic cards, I think that's a pretty good idea for regulars.  I might even start up doing something similar to that myself.

The thin you have to understand, though, is that you will never please everyone. You will always get one lunatic that thinks the rotation is unfair, no matter how well you run it. Some drunk, who thinks they own the bar will always complain.

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I am the ONLY SANE 1 HERE

all i have to say it... what the heck is rotation

Being underage you probably haven't experienced a true karaoke club yet.  The rotation is the list of singers for the evening.  As singers come in & leave, the list can change in a couple different methods.  That's what a rotation is - the amount of singers between the song you just sang & your next one which depending on the club can be anywhere from a couple songs to a 2 or more hour wait.

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OH!! ROTATION!!! ah ha! yes the wa the Jade would do it... (my old karaoke joint) was set it up by table... it was a resteraunt.... yeah lets say there are 6 songs at table 3 and she would play 1 song and then one song for table 4 and so on and every one got their songs played... yea man those were good times.... i miss it.... they closed because the owners retired.... i miss the Jade West....