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JazzyBaggz
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 Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:39 am |
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[font=georgia]I think the jean makes very valid points here, and he's not JUST admonishing the act of freezing the ratings. He was pointing out that these people Freeze their one or two 10's and then NEVER let any of their other songs be rated as well thus giving them a perpetual score of 10 that cannot be touched. This is really uncool when others are opening themselves up on the majority of their songs and sometimes getting good, sometimes getting not as good ratings. The point is that they are fairly and honestly using the rating system and taking their shots, while these other people just "SIT" on their good song without a care in the world.
IF we are to continue to use a list and ratings, this kind of stuff HAS to be stopped. I'm not saying that we need to keep the list or anything, but it seems that is not going to change on this site, so we need to make it work as best as it can. It will never be perfect OBVIOUSLY because we are still human, and there still may be people who get underrated and such, BUT we can't let painfully OBVIOUS and PREVENTABLE stuff like this continue when it is within our hands and easy to remedy.
And some of these people who do this type of thing will claim that they sub JFF on everything now, because the ratings don't mean ANYTHING to them, and they are just here to have fun. That does NOT ring true to me, because why ELSE would someone lock their score or desperately cling to that one or two 10 tunes, unless they DO care about the rating, and they DO like having people see what they accomplished in that respect??? If they really just cared about the comments, they wouldn't have locked the rating, and if they only wanted to stop their songs from being rated, they could resubmit the song under JFF.. So it's all a bunch of baloney to me. Anyone that holds on to a song like that DOES care about the ratings and the list to some degree, or they wouldn't do that....
I don't really agree in being able to "freeze" your ratings at all, and I believe it should be done away with.. BUT someone did mention a while back that they think it would be nice if they would automatically freeze after a certain number of weeks.. In effect, it's been out there long enough to get reviewed, now let it rest kinda deal. I tend to NOT agree with that because I think it alienates new people who come, or people who may have missed the song but rediscover it when browsing your page..BUT I actually could go for that IF and ONLY IF there was some sort of system in place which dictated that out of every so many songs you submit "x" number need to be rated subs.. For example for every 3 songs you submit, at least 2 of them have to be rated.. That would be the ONLY way to keep that semi fair. But again, I don't really subscribe to "freezing" at all...
I'm sure I will offend some people with this post, but I'm just speaking my mind here. It's not so much that I CARE so much about lists and such.. I've been off it, and on it, and while It's nice to be on it, I didn't lose sleep when I wasn't on it. I won't lie and say the numbers mean nothing to me, or I don't get frustrated sometimes, because I'm human and of course I'm going to feel something when I'm being rated, but I move on and I don't let them rule my experience here..And I just HATE to see people abusing the system like that!
Let the beatings commence  [/font]
_________________ [scroll]  [/scroll]
[font=andalus]We Are the Music Makers, and We are the Dreamers of Dreams...
We are the Movers and Shakers of the World Forever it Seems...[/font]
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Rainbowgnu
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:19 pm |
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I completely agree Elisha...
I personally don't even look at the top rated singers list, and I have no idea of exactly WHO has their songs locked, BUT I have a fair idea, and I believe many of them to be people who claim not to like ranking... which as you pointed out so well, simply doesn't ring true.
I firmly believe that to be eligible for being on the top list (which personally isn't an issue for me as I get a pretty consistent rank and if people are locking 10's then I'm never gonna get there anyway...) but I do believe to be eligible for that list, you should be actively subbing in the critique category.
Singers change, performances are different, we have good days, and we have bad, and for somebody to lock an old sub at a rating of 10, and then still be allowed to reign as a "top rated singer" is wrong... It doesn't allow access to new people to the site, and it promotes this whole attitude that there are perfect vocalists out there...
Not to put anybody down, I don't mean to do that at all... BUT those who are on the top rated list, (and I PROMISE I haven't looked and don't know who they are), but if they are worthy of that position, and are confident in themselves, as somebody on that list should be... Why lock your ratings? Have faith in yourselves and your songs to keep you on that list without locking it...
I have faith in my songs, and other than a dare, or a song I recorded when I was ill... I sub in "C"... I can't say that I don't care about ranking, because obviously people are giving their opinion on your performance, and that will always have an effect, but I have enough faith in both my songs, and in my peers, to rate it fairly, and to leave it open to be rated... I don't have some confidence issue that causes me to feel a need to lock it at a 10 in case someone comes along and rates it with a 9, because if some new person feels that my song deserves a 9... then thats what it deserves, and thats fine with me...
Unlock your songs and have faith in yourselves people, because all you are proving, is that you don't believe that song will stay at a 10, and that doesn't really show faith in your own talent or your song does it...???
Personally if I had a song rated at 10... (which i NEVER have had so far and I don't particularly care about... 9.? is GREAT so why be bothered about 10)... I would be so proud of it, but I wouldn't lock it... because the song would keep doing its work and if its truly worthy of that 10... it will stay there without being locked...
I'm done rambling now... I probably repeated myself over and over again, but oh well... I'll read it back later and laugh at myself...
Bottom line - Have faith in yourself and your songs, or those ratings are worth nothing anyway!
Much love to all,
Brett xx
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Shotgun CC
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:53 pm |
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Jazzy snip:
Quote: I'm sure I will offend some people with this post, but I'm just speaking my mind here. It's not so much that I CARE so much about lists and such.. I've been off it, and on it, and while It's nice to be on it, I didn't lose sleep when I wasn't on it. I won't lie and say the numbers mean nothing to me, or I don't get frustrated sometimes, because I'm human and of course I'm going to feel something when I'm being rated, but I move on and I don't let them rule my experience here..And I just HATE to see people abusing the system like that!
This shouldn't offend anyone, Jazzy ~~ its a valid point... and well supported.
I am wondering why a person's rating isn't a reflection of ALL songs they've SUBMITTED .... not just the ones they have up for current listening, but of all they've EVER subbed. I was rather surprised to realize that once a song is removed... so goes the rating as well. A perfomer's rating is an "average" of all of their efforts ... in my opinion.
Perhaps there is a way for the system to simply "keep the average" ... regardless of whether the song is still available. I know Phill is currently looking into a way for "comment/reply" totals to be maintained, even when the song is removed... so maybe he could also program the singers "ranking" to stay in the average.. even if the song is removed.
_________________ [shadow=tomato] If you want your significant other to pay attention to EVERY word you say::
 TALK IN YOUR SLEEP [/shadow]
 
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Charmin_Gibson
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 11:09 pm |
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I've been following this thread because it is kinda interesting.
~As the showcase turns~ I heard it called once.
I just wanted to give my opinion too.
When I first came here, I was ranked too. (for about a MONTH) That ended realllllly quick when I heard all the jabber jaw about ranking not being fair. And I have to say, this place is SO much better off when you sub for fun and leave the "critique" and "rank" thing out of it. I truly liked the idea once said about "critiques" being PRIVATE. Then I think you would get your true honesty. As long as it's ALL made public it will NEVER be fair. EVER. That's why I don't play the game. (nooooooo......I have NO songs rated, and have not had for a very long time) Nor do I rank others. Very very seldonmly have I EVER left a number on a sub.
But that's what makes this place what it is. People can get what THEY want from it. Me- I want to hear people, leave comments- and for them to listen to me and leave ME comments........ and that's it. I don't want to be compared to other singers here, I don't want a "number" attached to every song I sing. I don't want every word I went slightly off pitch on to be told to me, or to hear that someone thinks I "lacked emotion". But that's just me.
I think it's great that there are those of you who really want help here- I wish you could get the true honesty you want. You probably do - sometimes- but not always. That will never change, so I say accept it. I wish I had a nickel for every time this was brought up.
People "locking their rankings"- that is pathetic. I honestly feel sorry for those who would be so insecure about their singing that they would do that to stay on a list. I mean- I REALLY feel sorry for them. That is sad to say the least.
It would be nice if all this mess could end- but then again- what would we do without our forum threads, haha.
Peace everybody. I say to each his own- no matter what your numbers, or views count, or comment count- we all hear what we hear. I certainly don't judge a singer by their # of comments, personality, or their score. I judge for myself. And I think we all do. Nobody is going to look at that list and say "Oh....so & so must be the BEST singer here"..... they are gonna go listen & learn.
_________________
♥ Laugh your heart out, dance in the rain. Cherish the memories, ignore the pain. Love and learn, forget and forgive. Because you only have one life to live. ♥
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knightshow
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 11:42 am |
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what gets me is why would anyone else truly care what a rating is?? I used to freak on it myself, and then realized that there will ALWAYS be a way to cheat a system... and as long as you have people judging people, it will ALWAYS be unfair to some.
The "friends" or dare I say it, "Clique" factor, will ALWAYS make it seem more unfair than if you just sub a song and say "go for it, rate me".
So let's just all get over it. You can't change it, you can't change HUMAN nature...
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JKolman1179
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 10:40 pm |
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If I can be serious for a minute.........
.........
Ok, I'm done. Thank you!!
Ahem....Everyone makes valid points, Brett, Jean, Elisha, everyone. It's a passionate discussion, and one that deffo bears further scrutiny. However, just remember...being ranked a 10 or a 1....will it put food on your table this week....or pay for your kids diapers, or pay your bills this month....because it sure has not helped me at all.
Preferably, I would rather be ranked a 9 than a 10. That is condusive to me...I know not everyone will agree. The reason I say that is due to an important lesson I leanred in Junior High. In art class, I drew a brilliant picture...or so i thought. it was perfect...and I got a 99% on it. When I confronted my teacher and asked why I didn't get 100%, he simply said "Jason, there is always room for improvement." To this day, that has continued to impact me. That is how I go thru life...I do not believe in perfection, because we are imperfect beings.
The truth is, everyone is going to do their own thing. everyone will rank how they want, or do what they want, or cheat how they want, or whatever....because....
we....
are all like......
SNOWFLAKES!!!
Cheers
Jason
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_________________
Simon: Alright, so we're missing the echo! Robert, I can honestly say you're the worst singer I've ever heard in my life!"
Robert: Thank you!
From X Factor.
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Crystal
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:14 pm |
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Joined: Mon Sep 27, 2004 8:45 pm
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*SQUEAL!!!!*
LOOK HOW CEEEEUTE U ARE JASON!!!!
u can TOTALLY tell it's you!! awwwwwwwwwww!!!
i want babies  _________________ 
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syberchick70
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:18 am |
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JazzyBaggz @ Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:39 am wrote: I think the jean makes very valid points here, and he's not JUST admonishing the act of freezing the ratings. He was pointing out that these people Freeze their one or two 10's and then NEVER let any of their other songs be rated as well thus giving them a perpetual score of 10 that cannot be touched. This is really uncool when others are opening themselves up on the majority of their songs and sometimes getting good, sometimes getting not as good ratings. The point is that they are fairly and honestly using the rating system and taking their shots, while these other people just "SIT" on their good song without a care in the world.
Exactly, Jazzy And it's cool to show that 'we' are not the only ones who feel this way. It's not a personal thing, we sometimes DO go to the 'top rated' list and listen to the folks on there, because we want to see just what is currently 'top rated'. It doesn't mean we're trying to knock them off the list, but honestly... if we listen and say to ourselves 'eeesh, THAT doesn't deserve a 10!!' and give it whatever rank we feel is appropriate (more likely an 8-9), it usually will pull them off the list and make them angry. That's life, eh? Of course, there are also cases where we hear the people on the 'top-rated' and say 'yeah!!! That is definately a 10!!'. So, it works both ways.
I hope this situation is rectified soon. Nothing against that particular singer (because we all know she IS a good singer), but one of the people on the 'top-ranked' list has a 10 score and NO songs to even listen to!! What's up with that?? *shrugs*
Anyway, back to my waiting to hear something from Gilly... she's at the auditions right now. **HUGS**
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syberchick70
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 7:25 am |
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Crystal @ Fri Mar 04, 2005 11:14 pm wrote: *SQUEAL!!!!* LOOK HOW CEEEEUTE U ARE JASON!!!! u can TOTALLY tell it's you!! awwwwwwwwwww!!! i want babies Awww listen to you Crystal... heheheh
Are you wanting to be a mommy now??  Well, i'm sure you'll be a good one when you do. (can just picture a 'little crystal' pic) heheheh
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Crystal
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Posted: Sat Mar 05, 2005 11:33 am |
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hehe well.. not NOW but eventually, yes
here's Ty n Me as babies.... whattaya think? Will we make cute kids?
 
ok...ok... not hijacking.... not hijacking.... JASON STARTED IT!  _________________
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jee
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:10 pm |
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I just got sniped by Jake the Snake at SS. He visited four of my subs leaving no comments and all ratings on those four songs were dropped almost a full point (and all had more than 10 comments) which quickly calculated makes his ratings for me '1' or '2' each. Apparently he only paid a visit to those subs with average of 9.0 or above. I wonder if I really deserved that? I think I'll finally have to think about those singing lessons! Or could it just be that I'm reaping what I sow...
I don't really care otherwise, but he also sniped my and Jazzy's duet. Jazzy didn't deserve it, that much I know!
So, watch out, people!
jee
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syberchick70
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 4:17 pm |
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Well, I can't speak for Jake.. don't know the fella... but I feel for ya.
All I can say is, take the past advice and look at the 'numbers' with a grain of salt.
I have learned though, ranking without a comment is 'not cool' here... still, can't control folks. Ya know?
Take care dude.
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jee
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Posted: Sun Mar 13, 2005 11:08 pm |
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Yeah, well, I'm not worried about myself. Turns out that I'm not the only target. At least Angebella99 has been sniped by him too, because her average varies between 7.7 - 8.8 after his visits. And I can tell you guys that compared to SS average ratings this is not what she'd normally get.
It appears that Jake the Snake snipes people who give him less than a 'ten' and explains it also in one of his replies to Angabella99:
http://www.singersshowcase.com/song.php ... act2=13803
Way to go! I never believed people like this would be around...
jee
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Debauchery
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:26 am |
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How exactly can you tell who rates and what rank they give? I'm curious since I don't critique, rank or post subs in the 'C' category.
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Steven Kaplan
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 12:42 am |
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When I click on the listening track to a persons submission, does my name pop-up, or appear on a list to them ? Assuming I don't comment (yet just leave you rank) how can you know who has ranked you ? I did go over to "Whole World in his Hands", yet noticed the person you are speaking of did leave you a comment. Granted, the comment was quite complimentary, and if this in fact is the person that lowered your rank significantly, one wouldn't expect that when viewing the comment.
I'm just wondering how a person knows who ranks them.
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jee
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:14 am |
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Well Deb, it's rather simple really. Just maths.
Let's take I'll Be Over You as an example. Before Jake paid his visit the average rank was 9.5 with 10 comments. Now it's 8.5. The rank had changed a bit almost every time someone had visited so I assume there were something between 7 or 10 different ranks given. Let's take a few scenarios below. Here I count how many votes (X) I got from 11 visitors.
Assume he gave a '1':
(X * 9.5 + 1.0) / (X + 1) = 8.5
8.5 * X + 8.5 = 9.5 * X + 1
X = 7.5 (number of given votes => not an integer!)
Assume he gave a '3':
(X * 9.5 + 3.0) / (X + 1) = 8.5
8.5 * X + 8.5 = 9.5 * X + 3
X = 5.5 (number of given votes => not an integer!)
Assume he gave a '1' two times:
(X * 9.5 + 1.0 + 1.0) / (X + 2) = 8.5
8.5 * X + 17 = 9.5 * X + 2
X = 15 (number of given votes => too high!)
Assume he gave a '4' two times:
(X * 9.5 + 4.0 + 4.0) / (X + 2) = 8.5
8.5 * X + 17 = 9.5 * X + 8
X = 9 (number of given votes before Jake)
The calculations show that as the number of votes has to be an integer, it looks like he has voted two times with the average of 4. I don't know if it's possible to vote two times but I wouldn't be surprised if it was. In fact now that I think of it, a 4 is not that bad after all - but I would still like to have comments about why I deserved that rank.
Anyhow, this is basically how it's calculated!
Steven, if you just rank with no comments, an empty field appears to indicate that you've been there and gave a rank. That's kinda good because in the long run, it should keep people from acting unethically on purpose because they'll get caught!
jee
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Jian
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:22 am |
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jee
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 1:42 am |
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Yian, I don't think jamesrjones is actually one of the snipers. Yes, that's an example how an empty field is left once you just give a rank without comments. He may have given a 7 or an 8 there but I don't think he went very low with his rank. I understand Joyce (cantstopsinging) tho, because it'd always be nice to get grounds for whatever rank is given.
jee
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Debauchery
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 7:03 am |
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jee
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Posted: Mon Mar 14, 2005 9:44 am |
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Deb, as long as you can sing and pay your taxes, just forget about the maths. It's for nerds anyway
jee
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