Karaoke Forums

Ok, I touched on this in the thread about can Karaoke show sound to good .
When I set up my stage monitor for Karaoke I EQ the stage and send the Music and only the Vocals without much effects, just about 1/3 of the effect that the Mains get. I wouldn't send any but some like a little.
The reasons for this is because if you use the same amount of effect on the stage monitor it makes the singer in most cases lazy, as the effect is fattening the voice and hiding more flaws and because you don't hear your flaws you don't try to correct them.
I like a clear clean loud monitor so I can hear what I really sound like and try to improve upon the sound as much as possible and then the resulting vocals get compressed and an effect added to fatten it up some to give the crowd the best sound I can give them.
The problem with this I am finding is the average person not understanding this goes up on stage and wonders why they don't sound like everybody else does when their on the floor. I have come to figure out that most people are there to perform for themselves, even though they are up on stage. They like the stage for the look at me factor but their only concern with their voice is how it sounds to them on stage not with how it comes across to the audience, as they really don't know what the audience is hearing while on stage.
I have one singer who have an exceptional voice, his range seems to have no end, many of the females have a hard time hitting the high notes like him. He sings on key, hits most all his notes and is not afraid of running his range in a song. He is the best I have ever heard at "Unchained Melody", even better than the "Righteous Bro." in my opinion. I had a conversation with him the other day and he says he would like me to add in the same effects on stage as to the audience. He says this because, he has a hard time making his voice sound the way it should without an effect and he says he can't carry out a note as long as with an effect. He says when he tries to do the same thing on stage as he does at his home with the effect on it doesn't sound as good to him so he spends his time trying to listen to the mains instead of the monitor so he can adjust what everyone is hearing. I tried to explain to him that what he is hearing with an effect is not what his voice is doing, it is only an enhancement, he is not carrying out a note longer it is the echo and delay that is doing it, but no matter what I explained to him he did not get it and he wants to hear what he is sounding like to the audience, and not what his actual voice sounds like. After doing my best to explain I told him I would give him what he wants on stage, if that's the way he would rather have it , then that's what he'll get, no problem.
So I am going to try this week putting almost all or all of the effects to the stage as well as to the mains so everyone can think "Wow, Do I Sound Great", when in reallity they are coming across to the audience not quite as good. Maybe it will make some relax more on stage and thus do better, who knows.

And yes I welcome your input on this subject, as everyone has something to say that you can learn from.

Some good and valid points there. The only problem is is that your singers are your basis for income. Don't just blow them off when they want to hear themselves. You are there as KJ, making sure that your sound system is good and bringing in business for the owner of the establishment.

You should not be too concerned about

People go to your show to enjoy the night. If they sre serious about working on their "flaws", trust me, a rowdy bar is not the best place.

As I said in the other thread you touched on, I myself prefer no effect in the monitor. Only because it makes me try harder to improve what I hear, knowing it sounds much different to the crowd. And if I can make it better-sounding to myself WITHOUT effects, I know it is going to sound that much better "out there." I am concerned both with how it sounds to me as well as how it sounds to the audience. One thing that really bugs me though is not being able to hear ANYTHING from the monitor. If all I can hear are the "mains," I can't hear what's going on. There seems to be a slight delay from what I hear "out there" as compared to what's coming out of my mouth and into the mic.

The average person who doesn't realize there are effects added in must not attend karaoke much, in my opinion. If they really think that the "good" singers really sound THAT good, it doesn't surprise me one bit that some people would be intimidated to sing. There are certain songs that I sing that I will specifically ask the KJ to give me more echo on, just because I want that "haunting" effect. That is solely for my benefit, not for the audience. When I practice at home, I experiment with the echo and reverb a lot just to see which songs need it and which ones don't. And at karaoke, there are times when I tell them I don't want any echo at all.

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Deb, this guy that I had the discusion with has been going to Karaoke shows for years, was in a band for a couple decades and competes in many contests. It really amazed me what he was saying, he didn't have a clue what was going on. This guy is a freind of mine and this discusion was on the phone with me last night.
He is extremely concerned with how he might sound to others, yet he wants to handicap himself. I think his main problem is with not being in control. If his monitor is Clear , clean and loud, he can't hear if I am putting enough effect or mixing him in right with the music. He seems to ignore the fact that people tell him he's never sounded so good.
Him and others I find have a need to know issue and want to hear what everyone else hears and that's fine with me, I'll give them effects in their monitor and let them be happy, like Allstar said they are the customers and they are there to have fun.
If they want effect in the monitor let them have it if they don't then I'll leave it out.
These are thing you need to know about each person I am finding.
It's like the person who prefers a muddy mic vs a clean sounding one.

Could you explain the difference to me? I've never heard of a "muddy" mic, so not sure what that means

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Debauchery, put a pillow over your face and sing. That's a pretty good description of a muddy mic.


bowfishn, some people are just ignorant, and they deserve to be treated with the same ignorance. You will surely get to know who are the serious singers that are interested in improvement, versus the "it's-all-about-my-voice-and-nothing-else" singers. If they want to garble the stage vocals with all the gizmo effects, let them have it as long as it does not cause any feedback loops. No need to get your blood pressure up for this guy that I had the discusion with has been going to Karaoke shows for years, was in a band for a couple decades and competes in many contests

Oops....... (deleted double sub)

I only use my pillow to scream into, Allstar. Well, that and drool on when I sleep. Haven't tried the singing thing. I'll take your word for it though.

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I rarely put any effect in the monitor. My main reason is feedback control, the more effect you add in the monitor, you increase the chance of feedback 10 fold. If that guy was in a band, guarnatee his monitors never had any kind of effect if the engineer was doing his job correctly.

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I agree with you Lonman, but I am going to try abit more and see what I can get away with, without picking up feedback.
The guy does all his practice at home with alot of effect on, so he isn't use to hearing himself now without it on.

I think if you are using monitors in a stage set up the singer ( who most are not professional musicians and sound engineers) will want and need to hear themselves AS THEY SOUND TO EVERYONE ELSE. Maybe not full effects as that can lead to feedback problems but some degree of effects as on the mains. This way if they sound awful..They will know it and can compensate and correct the problems...

That's the whole case in point, if they sound awful, they won't realize it because it will be buried with effects so they won't know to try to fix it.

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As a singer I have sang in many venues large and small for over 30 years. (make it 50) Any system can be adapted to after 3-4 songs and if the stage is setup with standards it doesnt take any adaptations. ( I have sang on systems in Branson)( I did sing at Woodstock 69 but dont remember one word)...I prefer a monitor at the proper angle , pointed toward the the ceiling and at a 45 degree angle to the mic stand.. That way I can meander towards the mains on the other side and hear full effects , If I am singing a new song I can stand directly in front of the monitor and hear exactly what I am sounding like. Normally I like the sweet spot where I can turn my head and hear either one...

As a KJ I still have problems with a few singers and their first comment is I cant hear the monitors.. I finally learned not to turn the gain up on the monitor but ask them if they want efx or whatever.. I use JBL Eon10 G'2's for stage monitors so I kow it isnt the monitor quality. Whichever main is the farthest from stage center is where I offset the monitor from the mic stand.and aim it 45 degrees to that side (for min feedback) (If you look at a pro setup on tv the monitors are at 45 degrees towards the the end of the stage) That way pros can position themself onstage to hear what they want...Believe me I have fought this prob for years... And still dont have it figued out. And probably one thing I'll always be interested in becuz I prob never willl

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