Karaoke Forums

When you think about it, it's safer than having a critique like this displayed in public


"You get an A dude, that was the funniest rendition of that song I ever heard, Amazing job ! How did you manage to have the skill to sing that ballad a minor 2nd off key throughout the whole song ? You are the funniest performer I've heard in here yet.... Perfect 10"





Kidding aside however, I don't understand how the public display of the critique benefits the individual performer. I think "Critique me" should automatically send the critique to a private area only viewable by recipient, and poster. Why should the rest of the forum, and public see the critique ?

I now understand why people want rank, and that to be a public display. They enjoy that microcosm of the competitive industry. Yet public display of a "critique" ? WHY ?


I actually did one critique in here. It ended up a discussion, a trading of ideas in PM anyway, I believe this is how it should be. The critiqued party likely will have questions, and every right to ask the questions in PM. In fact much of the time, a critique will be the beginning of a dialogue that belongs in PM


There's another very important reason I can see private critiquing might be advantageous. Within the past few days a person posted a little comment meant to be constructive. I personally didn't agree with the comment, and obviously others didn't as well. Following people in essence
degraded the earlier comment made. The comment might, or might not have been accurate, yet this should ONLY be between the performer, and critiquing party. (or am I incorrect regarding this aspect?)


If I critique something I feel is missing, should following critiques infer my critique is hogwash ? Eventually there will likely be a problem that impedes people from actually leaving the constructive critique. Others that feel it was too harsh. Group mentality that wants others to be "kind".
Many critiques DON'T appear "kind", nor should they have to be sugar-coated to be constructive critiques.

in some ways I do agree with you, Steven. I think it's a fantastic idea for people to discuss some problem areas through a PM... I think you'd get more information that way... and if there were things said that the singer would prefer not to have ppl see, then that problem would be eliminated.

HOWEVER. I can recall one person in particular that was reading MY critiques because she has some of the same difficulties as I. She was reading my critiques to see if she could pick up some pointers...

so yes.. I agree that PMing your critiques is a fantastic idea, but I don't think that publicly doing so is bad (unless the singer specifically asks you NOT to publicly critique... in which case maybe the "just for fun" option could be chosen with the "critique through PM" idea in the description...

I dunno... just a thought.

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I know this has happened on a few occasions.. but I think the singer is just going to have to realize that everyone has differing opinions and NEITHER is right or wrong.

You can take what you want from a critique and leave what you don't want. Having differing comments on a sub gives us variety, and I think it makes for a more interesting site.How boring would it be for everyone to constantly be saying the same things?

There will always be differing opinions and it's up to us to not alienate someone (or refer to their comment as "hogwash") because their opinion isn't the same as our own.

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Crystal, My concern was regarding an honest, yet not soft critiquing party becoming alienated by following critiquers who don't like his method, and comments.


I was wondering if the public critiquing will eventually be limited by others that don't approve of what they believe to be "hurting the persons feelings", and in essense in their own comments saying something to discredit the prior critiquer, IE


"Your song was gorgeous, and full of expression. I don't know what that last comment was about, to me this was perfect, don't believe everything people say"


Basically attacking another persons critique, via a following critique. EVEN if the person is correct initially.


btw, that's a good point regarding one critique helping more than just the submitting person. I'd never have thought of that.

right. that's what I was referring to also... these types of commenters.
I guess I was being naive in thinking that people wouldn't make these types of comments if the sub did have the "Critique" option chosen

I just wish everyone understood the fact that everyone can have an opinion, and there should be no reason to degrade someone just because of an opinion they have. Nobody is wrong.

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You are absolutely correct, Steven. Unfortunately, we pretty much HAVE to approach the issue in a 'simple' fashion. If a person says 'critique me', we have to take them at their word. Critique them!!! Otherwise, it gets into a whole big mess of keep track 'well, this person wants a critique on vocals, this person on mixing, this person not really anything at all, but they say they do... we just all know better'. Also, there is the 'problem' of doing that in new people joining the site EVERY day!!!

That is a WONDERFUL thing, but how welcome is a person going to feel if they happily start critiquing folks, only to find out some don't really want it and they're 'going against the flow'? WHAT flow? They don't know about it. The only exception I can see, is if people don't want feedback on their mixing for some reason, and state that in their song description. I can understand folks having trouble with their technical equipment (as WE do sometimes) and not wanting to get ranked on that component. After all, this is a SINGING site.



That is something people SHOULD specify in their song description. For the most part, I try to only give 'light' critiques publicly. If the person wants more details, I will usually send it to them privately... but in all fairness, 'critique me' is an open invitation for public critiquing, whether we like it or not. That is why on one of my subs, which I didn't feel very comfortable with because I knew I had some major problems (white rabbit), I submitted it 'just for fun' and invited folks to send me critique stuff privately. Some did, and I am grateful for the feedback.



I do the same. I listen first to songs I know well and really enjoy, next I listen to people I know and want to hear (although I sometimes miss those), and last, I will go through and try to listen to all of the 'critique me' subs... because I feel those people are asking for feedback and will be disappointed if they don't get it. Of course, I can't listen to ALL of those, but I try and usually just go down the list hearing each one until something comes up, I get tired or distracted.



I've thrown a few roses myself.. but mostly on the JFF (just for fun) subs. I won't compromise to the point of 'fluffing' people on 'critique me' subs. uh-uh. I care about what people see when they come to this site and it's downright embarrassing to have 'seriously flawed' songs in the 'top ranked submissions' list. It HAS happened... but that aspect has improved a lot since the 'JFF' option was added.



Good point Steven, however for many of us who are trying to improve, the submission may indeed be the best we can do AT THAT TIME, but we are seeking feedback on how we might improve it later on! I will probably go back and re-do some of my own submissions with an 'improved' version (hopefully) and people often do that. I've heard some people improve quite a bit from one version to the next. That's truly 'fun' for me!

heheh

I HAVE seen a couple of people be truly 'mean'. I have seen a few people 'raked over the coals' Tigger and FoxeRoxy come to mind as examples of folks I have seen RECIEVE 'uncalled for' and 'inappropriate' comments, so it does happen... but not often.

Now, on the other hand, I have hurt a few feelings without meaning to, simply because I was being insensitive. I first came here with a 'Simon' kind of attitude, which is basically 'brutal honesty' and I don't care if it hurts your feelings. I have changed to a more 'honesty', but taking feelings into consideration type of approach. That works out much better, even though people still get offended.

Crystal - do you have a 'copyright' on that 'disclaimer' of yours?

That's what I did on 'white rabbit'... are you saying I'm brilliant??



(ah darn-it, guess I can't use your disclaimer after all... I DO get a bit sarcastic at times) heheheh

Hey, it happened to me! But, I'm ok with it actually. I DON'T *enjoy* hurting people's feelings, so I've made an effort to 'soften' my critiques in general. Still though, I won't compromise on the honesty thing.

People get a bit pensive on my (almost) always bringing up pitch in my critiques, but it's a plain fact that only about 1 in 10 subs I listen to (the 'critique me' ones, not counting the JFF which are sometimes better than the ones for critique) are dead ON PITCH (or so darned close that I can't tell). But, even knowing that people get sick of hearing it, I always mention pitch if the song is off (even my own).

But, I try to do it 'nicely'.

Well... Crystal I agree with you that we need to watch how we read things...

BUT... When someone (who hasn't been around for a month or so) commented on several on my subs with some interesting feedback but the "nicest" one of them was,

I don't believe in giving false hope, enuff said

I'm pretty sure I didn't misunderstand that. It would be tough to, especially added to the other comments he left on my songs and even on comments he made about my comments I left on other people's subs.

Can't say that I miss that person..

Ooops.. didn't see that comment before I added my $.02..



And that change I'm sure is much appreciated by the people who's songs you comment on... I know I appreciate it when people take that approach instead.

Thx Syber, was gonna mention that about the !#$%^ meanie on one of my subs.

And wanted to add, like Ok What Now, and Steve Monen I think too, said a few months ago...if you do give a score other than 10, please say WHY for goodness's sake. It's confusing to hear that your sub is great, then see a low score overall...it makes ya all scratchin' your head and goin' what the hell?...

Ohhhhh....I know the fealin'.......but we do our best and wait to see where the chips fall.....

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[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

I a trop par le passe erre ces rues

Steven Kaplan wrote

I don't know what that means ....but if it creats a mess....your gonna clean it up.....by the way if I sould a little airheaded....well it's caused by the drugs I'm takin'.....got an upper respatory....I'm coughin' my head off...

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[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

Flu, eh ? That time of year I suppose. Those cold med's knock me out.
Hope you feel better soon KKid. Depending on the degree of your post-nasal drip, you can always submit either Rod Stewart, or Joe Cocker tunes to SS.

I just listened to a large portion of the Latest Subs.....I know everyone is doing their best.....


see what I don't understand is who among us is perfect....let's face it some subs are terrible.....we all know that.....but if I understand correctly...we're suposed to either pas over these....but what I don't understand is....if a Singer ask to be ranked...shouldn't they be told if their sub sucks....

I don't want to hurt anyone....or anger anyone....but if a sub is really bad it frustrates me that I gotta be the nice guy and just move onto the next sub....then tomarrow I start going through the subs and find that the song I passed over....is now ranked a 10, just because some people give everyone a 10....

not every song is a 10.....I think that most often they are average or above....and some deserve a 1 or lower.....

now I'm gonna crawl into a hole and hide cause I probably started another fire storm.....yes it's all for fun.... but a person ought to be able to slam a sub that makes your ears bleed and praise a fine preformance....if you praise everyone then you ....you, lessen the value of a good sub....

ok well i'm outta here....and I didn't rank any one today...cause I really believe that there were no 10s......one last note...I'm not a music critic....I just know when I listen to a song wether I like it or not....so I can't tell you, that in the 3rd measure there was a pitch problem....some subs trully suck......who knows maybe mine do....but if you rank me with 1s, then I'll understand....maybe we should just get rid of the rankin' thing....I guess I'm a little like the smart mouth judge on american idol.....

well I'm sick...really and I'm goning back to bed......I know that this is a touchy subject but on days like today it frustrates me that I can't rank a song at 1 and not coment why other than it sucked from beginin' to the end...

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[glow=blue]Tequila & A Song
KKid[/glow]

You are now officially a member of Group Two. Welcome amigo.

You have somehow gained the ability to see a naked Emporer.

Please be aware that if you are honest about any sub that sucks, you will be attacked viciously.

Also be aware that there are others who've gone thru the process and who understand exactly what you are feeling and hearing. They can lend you support.

Above all, be proud of yourself for the risk you took by being honest!!!!

Ok. I have no group... so, can I be the naked emperor?


(i am already naked, if that helps?:)

Gilly said:



When did you say you were coming to Nova Scotia? Wink, wink, nudge,nudge

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You can be strange but not a stranger