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Competition. This is a VERY weak area for me. Seems that anyone who is average in any area they compete in, is inevitably going to get their butt kicked. What must the mindset be of the healthier competitor entering a competition ? How should a person handle winning, knowing it's a temporary position ? How do you prepare yourself for getting your butt kicked ?


Inquiring minds want to know

Between the AI threads, and average singer threads, I started thinking about how in the schools we are taught that getting the A grade is a goal. Yet realistically on a scale of 1-10, How many of us are actually the 9 or 10 type person ? Most of us at best, are around average.


Is competition a healthy thing ? How ? What do we really learn from it ?

What's the healthy mindset when entering a larger scale competition. Should we, and do we ever prepare for a judge to call us :fat:, once we enter the final rounds ? Etc.

Hmmm... I just watched Rocky yesterday morning.. that is the ultimate movie about the underdog goin' for it! I'd say most of all... training and practicing is key... of course believing in yourself.. but that comes with knowing you have mastered the skill.... and it probably helps a LOT to have some external support (like a coach).


So is it healthy? ... maybe like anything.. it's healthy to a degree. Seems now... with popular shows like Survivor, Fear Factor, Apprentice, AI etc.. we are obsessed with watching people go for it! I think it can breed some cut-throat tendencies in people... seeing as the "nice guy" usually finishes last!

Sheeesh.. we can probably go back to the caveman days and see them all daring each other to jump off a rock!!!

Thing is, People love to watch the fantasy that "The underdog becomes the hero". The reality of what usually happens to the underdog would be a tragic movie, who'd pay to watch it ?

What made Forest Gump so loved ? The Ironic spin, that this slow person, actually might've held the secret to life that others with higher intellect don't have. "He excelled at life" He was a hero. An innovator.
Forrest Gump was the modest competitor, He won competitions, without even knowing he was in them


In real life, especially in the performing arts, It's pretty cold. We practice, and practice. Yet we always are vulnerable to another group of individuals who just might slam us because we look like the kid that beat them up in Kindergarten.


Additionally, When a person does climb to the top. Many just love to throw rocks at them and watch them fall off've the pedistal. If all we do is train to win, and be as good as we can be. Isn't it really important to NEVER lose perspective that we aren't the best ?

It's all a state of mind really. As a group or society... people follow along and do what they think they need to do to be accepted or to get ahead. EVERYBODY does! In the case of someone like Forrest... He wasn't capable of seeing all the complexities in life... so he was happy with the simple things. If we could all be that way... we would all be successful... if success is happiness!

There was a similar movie called 'Being There' with Peter Sellers... same sort of idea... the guy didn't have a conscious awareness of the world around him... he just lived a happy life and mastered what he loved to do... gardening.



Is there a "best"?

Sheree, I suppose for a short timespan there can be a best. Yet todays best won't win when a different style evolves, and listening preferences change. If your style is popular or country, there will be a few at the top.
At any given competition, there'll likely be a person that is better than others in their performed genre (At least I'd assume this). Yet since listening preferences are a subjective thing, and the performer is pretty vulnerable, I'm wondering what the healthy mindset is when going into an event.

That's a great question man! But the answer depends solely on how humble or not the winner can be. I tend to be a very humble person, I was always taught to reach for the moon, even if you only hit the stars, that's still pretty far.

As far as handling winning, it's my opinion that just like scoring a goal in hockey, ya gotta act like you've scored before. And if you get your butt kicked, it should serve to motivate you to improve more.

I've been to many auditions down here in Raleigh, and have yet to get even a backup part in a play, but it just motivates me to get back up and do it again....I think the Rocky analogy above is perfect!

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Simon: Alright, so we're missing the echo! Robert, I can honestly say you're the worst singer I've ever heard in my life!"

Robert: Thank you!

From X Factor.

Jason, given your talent, I find that absolutely amazing ! Now perhaps the people auditioning aren't looking for the "conventionally" skilled vocalist. Are we talking plays such as "Phantom" "Rockie Horror", and "Fiddler" ? If your skill doesn't qualify you for at least a backup part in that type show, there's something I'm seriously not understanding.

Unless they are looking for an appearances that will best suit a particular actor in the play, and vocal skill is the secondary consideration.


My feeling is just based on your vocal ability alone, you could be Broadway bound. Other factors, I have no idea about


Of course there's another factor most listeners such as myself wouldn't be familiar with at the auditioning level. How many others are there "out there" with talent like yours ? Most of us wouldn't know, at least I don't.


Here's the thing. As a guitarist, I can attest to the fact that in any large city there are at least a handful of guitarists, often guitarists that just will crawl out've the woodwork that are every bit as good as SRV was. There is some amazing talent out there. Most of us can't actually witness this

Always remember the most obnoxious factor to success in entertainment:

Being in the RIGHT PLACE at the RIGHT TIME can mean EVERYTHING.

There are TONS of REALLY gifted people out there pounding the pavement- Jason is but one of them- adorable and talent off the CHAIN baby- but unfortunately his moment hasnt come- BUT- Jason your attitude about it is what will ultimately get you to that moment- "NEVER GIVE UP NEVER SURRENDER" to be completely corny- it is what makes you a survivor and ultimately what will make you a success. As hard as it is, nothing can be taken personally, you just have to keep trudging on.

jmho over here

Hey where is my damn sandwich anyway?

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Heather, so a person must also be VERY resilient ? Wipe off there knee's, and stand up again ? Thickskinned, as you said in the AI thread perhaps.



(I wonder if that can be developed in a person that has a tough time taking a beating. In the context of "fight or flight", the one that runs away, and isn't inherently the fighter)

No sandwiches in this thread, just chocolate cheesecake

Hi there, Lady Di here......... yummy !!!!!!!!

Um.... competitions. I would consider myself to be the average singer, you know better than some, worse than others. I think you have to enter competitions with a very open mind and attitude. I don't take myself to seriously, have fun, whilst doing the best I can do. And on the odd occasion I enter a comp. I always ask the judges for the comment sheets, whether I place or not (and I have been in both categories). You learn from the comments and move on. Sometimes it's just something daft like, didn't like your song choice. So next time you sing a different song.

Just keep plugging away...........the only way is up

Well, in my case in Raleigh, there is only one theater and that is NCT and I'm relatively new there, having only been in Raleigh for a handful of months. They have people who audition for them all the time, and those are the ones who get the roles. I feel that if I keep poking my head in, that maybe eventually I can get in. So yes, it is about being resilient.

I'd also tend to agree with the comment Steve made, there are so many talented people out there, way more talented than myself. Sometimes ya just gotta hope that they are the ones waiting at home to be discovered, while some of us are out there living it.

As the old addage goes: It's not how mnay times you fall down, it's how many times you get back up and try again.

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Simon: Alright, so we're missing the echo! Robert, I can honestly say you're the worst singer I've ever heard in my life!"

Robert: Thank you!

From X Factor.

That's a really good point. Actually the ratings and attention people get in the singers showcase is almost a microcosm of this situation. The songs I listened to initially weren't based on politics, they were based solely on one thing, "What *I* like songwise". Now it appears recently there are some hurt feelings; I would think if I were somewhat established in here, In such a case the more political elements might come into play. "Why did the two people before me, and the one after me who sub'd get 20 people commenting, when I only got 3 comments" ? After people know you, how much of the listening is the song, vs. the person performing ?

I suppose I'd be quite hurt too, if the person who sang with the skill of Alfalfa of the little rascals (performing a Roger Whittaker rendition of a Funkadelics song) right before me got 40 comments, and my performance of what I felt was a great song was relatively ignored.

In classic rock the "Tori Spelling" element didn't get the bookings while on the road I suppose. Bar owners didn't care who my father was. Yet is it different when auditioning for a larger competition ? or shows ? Is there a larger political element here ? Similarly, is surviving once you are inside all about how well you politic ? Meaning there really isn't room for the "artistic" temperment except for in VERY rare instances ? Such as David Bowie, or Madonna level folks ?


I'd be curious to know on a heirarchy how Charisma (stage presence) vs actual personality vs Who snuck you in even tho you are crappy, and Singing ability rank

Ya know, I think it differs for theater than in world of popular music. When you walk into an audition, sometimes the director already has his or her mind made up as to what they are looking for in a character, and if that is the case, no amount of charisma or vocal ability is going to help.

In popular music, there are other factors aside from chairsma...the person has to be pleasing to they eye or some crap like that. I really dunno much about it, but I'm sure someone around here does.

C'mon guys, help me out....I'm drowning here!

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Simon: Alright, so we're missing the echo! Robert, I can honestly say you're the worst singer I've ever heard in my life!"

Robert: Thank you!

From X Factor.

Jason, For show, would ability to act supercede actual singing talent on a scale of importance ? or would that depend on the show ? Even ability to dance.

It really depends...the casting call will often ask specifically, ie:

"Looking for actors who sing"
"looking for actors who move"
"looking for actors who sing and move"

etc.

It depends on the show. For instance, Jekyll and Hyde has a lot of singing and dancing, especially for the esnsemble parts. Other shows don't have a ton of dancing, like Les Miserables (tho there is some dancing.)

At auditions for musicals, you are asked usually for 16 bars of music....then if they like they way you sing, they will sometimes ask you to go into another room and do a reading. I think you need a steady balance of the two, acting and singing. For example, I didn't like the way Sebastian Bach performed J&H. Sure, he's a great rock tenor, but he just stood at the edge of the stage with his hands raised as if begging for something....there was no acting at all, and it took away from the role.

Am I rambling now? it's 1 in the morning....I need a nee naw

Night Night!
Jason

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Simon: Alright, so we're missing the echo! Robert, I can honestly say you're the worst singer I've ever heard in my life!"

Robert: Thank you!

From X Factor.

cool thread, Steve! Ya know.. I just read thru all the threads... and finally got to this new one...

I think the concept of BEST is mutifaceted. But my gut tells me... there is a BEST in most walks of life. Someone or something we all strive for.
I was watching TV last night & now I'm reading these threads ... and wouldn't you say Johnny Carson ... could be considered the BEST that ever was or will be ... in his "genre"? I think MOST would say YES. And it goes back to the thread regarding the "Average" vs "Top Shelf" singer... where Jason posted the comments of Eddie Wilson. Since this site is basically dedicated to "music"... I'll use music as an example... but I think it can be applied to nearly any "walk of life". People have come and gone in this industry ... and will continue to do so. And they'll be "good" , "popular" .... for perhaps a few years.. and maybe even longer... or maybe just for a very short time ... we've all heard of the "one hit wonders". We enjoy these people.... but ultimately we "go home and basically forget about them, or don't give them a whole lot of thought" ....after they've had their day in the spotlight, so to speak. But.... every once in a while... someone "unique", "exceptional" ... happens upon the scene....and that person is "memorable"..... has "universal appeal and staying power".... thru the generations. Someone like Johnny Carson or Bob Hope or Elvis Presley or Nat King Cole. Regardless of where we are .... or our age... I dare to say ... most of those names are familar to MOST everyone. And IMO, perhaps these folks are examples of what "BEST" is... sorta hard to define... but in a poll...or discussion... their names reoccur time after time, over generations.

JMO

~~ Cindy

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Thanks Jason, outside of one or two highschool plays, I wasn't aware of just how much the auditioning person was informed beforehand, regarding the demands of the part he's auditioning for. Whether the skills needed were spelled out, or whether the actor/dancer/singer was expected to know himself prior to auditioning for a particular role, based on familiarity with the play.



I agree about Carson Cindy. He was a natural. very quick on the uptake, easy to watch. Masterful with expression as well. He made what he did well look simple, and relaxed. He appeared much warmer than any other talk show host I've ever seen. I believe he was the best, and will never be surpassed.


As you stated, stardom is transient. Styles change, younger and better come along, the performer tires. It seems logical, (yet often difficult) that balance is VERY important in the life of the competing performer. I'm trying to understand the differences either in attitude, or personality type, between the person who bombs at a few competitions, yet keeps returning and hasn't lost the zeal; and the person who fears losing so much, they don't enter the competitions to begin with. I don't believe the later person desires stardom any less.


Like I stated earlier, I have had a VERY difficult time with competition, yet I'm by no means not an assertive, or even aggressive person. What are the differences between the competitive artists, and those of us that although started in competition at a VERY young age, somehow became terrified of losing ?

Well Steven, I wish I knew... Unfortunately, I have NO experience in the area of winning competitions (or even competing for that matter). !!

Hmm.. sounds like sort of a 'Zen Mind - Beginner's Mind' philosophy (haven't read the book, but that's the premise).

my wife and I compete in a lot of contests.....quite frequently we compete agianst the same people....there is a guy who beats my consistantly.....I call him my Neman (taken from Sienfield)....there are a lot of reasons why he wins on so many occassions....

his choice in music.....I refered to him as the Micheal Bolton of the karaoke contest circut in this area....his songs are always ballads, love songs....the kind that catch the ears of the ladies.....I sing Honky Tonk, which plays to a smaller audience.....not that it hasn't worked for me....when the music is fimiliar to the judges (they can sing along), they tend to be more receptive....a good example is the competion where my wife came in first and he came in second....this venue was out in the sticks...a large rowdy crowd, who loved kick (@$%&#!) country and rock n roll....they were both very good, but Cheri's choice in music fit the venue better....

preformance...stage presence....that's my edge....often he just stands there and belts out his song...never moves or shows emotion....you gotta connect with the audience....a singer can have the perfect voice and loose to a good preformer....cause the preformer will be remembered longer...

additude.....I have heard to those of us that move from contest to contest refered to as "contest whores"...."primadonnas"....and yes quite a few of us have a I'm better than you attitude...we are often spoiled and demanding....at least thats what I'm told.....I like to think of it as confidence....again the quiet reserved contestant maybe the best singer, but who will they remember....

preparation....the look....the practice....the work... and believe me when I say a lot of time goes into this area.....I have contest clothing.....I practice everyday.....and I work on my stage presence everyday....in fact when I walk through the door of a venue I consider myself on stage....not only while preforming my song but as I move through the crowd... the way I carry myself....my Newman does this well...you gotta look and act the part....

as for loosing....I have had my share...seems I can't winn arround my home area, but if I go else where I do....but when i loose, I try to determine where I messed up or where I could have done better....a lot of contestants will blame the sound, the KJ, the judges, claim a fix and on and on....if I loose it is because I didn't measure up that nite...all those things are factors no doubt, but if you can win the attention and hearts of the crowd the judges will usually follow...most of the time....

the exceptions to this are the mom and pop contest where uncle Joe and the local drunk are judges cause there there every night... and the venue is set on awarding the prize to a "regular", because they'er there every night....contest followers tend to frustrate regulars....we are accused of taking the money and running on to the next contest...which is usually the truth....hence the tern "contest whores"....

personally I love the preparation....the rush of competetion....I love the glitz and attention.....good or bad....

I will never be a big star...I'll never win a grammy....but I can be a small star on contest night and that is good enough for me....I got my fix

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