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my personal stance on duets is it's a turn for BOTH singers. even if it IS "half" a song for each singer. It's still their "Five" mins in the spotlight, same as a "soloist"

Exactly!

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nope.... that would be an exceptionally slow night for us. Our "typical" rotation is @ 22-25 .... with some nights up to 40. Sometimes the first hour will be 10-15.. but thats it. We do 5 hours.


Regarding the duets... I think its an "operations" philosophy difference. We operate by SLIPS per round... not SONGS per round. Hey, it works for us.... Whatever works for you folks is cool too!! I think I'll just agree to disagree on this one particular issue.

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We, like Shotgun CC give one turn per singer... it's up to them whether they want to sing solo or with a partner for their turn. Sometimes it's the only way a person will become addicted to karaoke, they must go up with someone for "courage" until they can go by themselves. There are also great duets, 3 of which I love to sing come to mind, I will sometimes ask a new person at our show or someone I don't know at someone else's show to do them with me. Our rotations are 20 - 35 very happy singers.

Granted, there are those pushy singers who recruit people to turn in slips under the other person's name (or turn them in themselves)... Once this is determined we make it known that if it is a slipped turned in under your name you MUST sing... You can usually nip these situations in the bud....

This situation is just like many others where very talented people do things differently very successfully. Sometimes we can use portions of other people's systems to make our own better!

Susie
(A true karaoke fanatic)

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[scroll]Just because I have a short attention span doesn't mean...... [/scroll]

Exactly Why I lurk Here Daily......You all have your Own way and very good points of running your own show...if it wasnt for listening to everyones point of view I would be just another KJ Bot...
Keep up the posting.
Im sure each and everyone of us is picking up something new with each read here in the fourums.

Michael

this happens to be one of those topics of discussion that has so many variables as to what the answer may be... we all could be right or we all could be wrong... it is always gonna be a personal decision based on those variables... some of those variables might be:
1) location on the planet
2) size of establishment
3) the demographics of the customers
4) personal style of the KJ
5) the degree of the owner or manager meddling in your affairs
6) the genres of music being selected by the singers
7) the talent or ability of the customers present
the "ear bleeding factor"- that should be self explanatory
9) what night of the week it is
10) it may be being used as a promotion to attract singers for a certain period of time
11) how abused the "sing 2 at a time" becomes (solo 2, then duets 2 in same rotation etc)

I haven't read every post in this thread so I am sure I repeated alot of things... this topic is as personal as how a KJ runs their rotation on a normal night... just saw the thread and figured I would contribute a few more ideas... I, personally, have ran the 2-fer rotation early in a night, all night, and as a promotional tool to pick business up on slow nights... it CAN be a PITA or it can be very exciting... I know as a singer I enjoy getting up to sing 2 in a row sometimes but not all the time... there is beer to drink and women to flirt with too can't take all my time up on stage ... just my 2 cents...- tig

Well again... I will tell you what WE do. WE will only accept a slip from the person wishing to sing. Friends can't submit slips for a 'friend'. We do this so that we don't end up with a "no show" or a "refuse to sing" ... when someone tries to play a joke on someone ... or "chickens out". Singers must turn in their own slips.

And again... we do have singers that get up as a GROUP (college town ----> lots of "teams" like to sing together)..... When this occurs... THE WOMEN'S HOCKEY TEAM ... or THE MEN'S BASEBALL TEAM ... is considered "a slip" and is given a slot in the rotation. If they bring another "team" slip up when they sing... they stay in the rotation as a team. If they don't ... they miss a round. And YES... sometimes... someone on the team wants to sing SOLO ... and if they bring up a SOLO slip.... they get their own spot in the rotation. Again... we don't get complaints... so "If it ain't broken... we don't fix it".

Take Care All ~~

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I know this would get a lot of KJ's in trouble, but I usually play it by ear. It helps that I'm in a pretty small bar, and the vast majority of my 15-25 singer rotation consists of "regulars". Along with crowd/rotation size, a lot depends on how true of a duet a song is. Two people singing "Picture" might count as a song for both people, but someone doing background vocals on "Dead or Alive" will usually get to stay and sing one by him/herself.

We follow the rotation and if you choose to have another singer with you for a duet or just for a crutch to help you out when it's your turn then so be it. Having another singer up with the one on the list does not change the number on the list, so if Joe Blow has just been up to sing and Mary Quite Contrary wants to have Joe up with her for a duet that's fine after all it is her turn in the rotation. What I don't do is let singers go up and do duets as a seperate rotation, if they want a duet take it in thier rotation.

A 2 song per rotation would encourage people to leave after their turn knowing that they won't get to go up again and that would tend to make the bar less money making your service less attractive to the bar owner.

What ever you do try to be consistent so everyone knows what to expect of your show, in the long run it will cut down on the complainers, although you will always have some that will complain. I was at a duet contest the other week and someone complained to the people running it that it wasn't fair that they let Children compete. The contest had no age restrictions and if you are worried about getting clobbered by a 10 year old then maybe you didn't really have a chance in the first place , relaxe and have fun, after all the kids are our future clientel.

Had this issue at a local venue the other night (I wasn't hosting - I was singing).

Bob gets up and has Joe duet with him.

Next up is Joe and he wants Bob to duet with him. KJ stopped 'em. Told 'em no way and called up the next singer. I, and a number of other people, would have left if they had sung twice back to back. It was a couple guys just trying to get over on the normal rotation but while multiple songs might work for some, it doesn't work for most.

Hi KM ~~ Its been quiet in the KJ forum lately!!

I totally agree its really important to try to control (if possible) people singing back-to-back songs.

But .... Let me ask ... if Joe had come up later in the round and sung a solo... would that have been okay? What about if in the next round... Joe put in a duet with Bob.... and Bob put in a solo?... (not back-to-back) ... Is that okay or do they have to chose between the duet together .. or one song each... per round?

Im not trying to be a "picky butt" ... I'm just really curious if the issue is that someone is on the stage more than others.... or if its the back to back issue.. or what? I guess I am curious.. 'cause like I've mention before ... we often get groups of singers that come to the show together... and mostly they prefer to solo... but occasionally... they will put in duets on their slips...or even larger group songs (one singer has to put it in on his/her slip) and we just never get complaints. Several others have also said they don't have problems with that. Now granted..... we aren't running rotations of 60 or more... but we run mid 20's - 30 on the average.

I have really been trying to figure out why its a problem in some places... and not other... (assuming that most show rotations are about the same size).

Take Care..... Cindy

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Cindy

As a karaoke customer the question ABSOLUTELY stems from stage time. If I'm at a show and I see someone up on stage singing twice (or at your show three or four times even if they are part of a duet) before I get to sing once I'm gonna complain to the KJ about it. Perhaps it was n unintentional slip up.

Let it happen again, and I vote with my feet.

As a KJ, this does get tricky, especially when you have someone that everyone wants to sing with. In those cases, I usually tell the duetting person (not the popular singer) that they may want to turn in an individual song or two as well because Joe Popular can only get one song per rotation just like anybody else and he's already signed up for duets with 3 other people. That means it's 4 rotations til you get your shot.

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I realize that there can be those that will try and take advantage of the situation and have someone who doesn't even sing sign up on the rotation just so they can go up twice, but if the KJ would have let Joe go up there by himself then he should not have had an issue with Bob going up with him, it would not change anything as far as how many time anyone else would have a chance to get up there. If it had been me I would have left because he didn't let Bob go up with Joe. After all if you allow others to Duet then it's wrong to single out anyone just because you think they are getting to go up and sing to much. If on the other hand Bob was abusing the equipment or just plain out of hand then there would be a reason to refuse him.
Quite often others are asked to go up with someone who doesn't feel comfortable being up there by themselves or we have chalenged individuals that want someone to help them out with their song and the person who is helping out may be the next person up and that's just the way it is.
There was a show that I went to once where there was a young girl who had all her freinds put there names on the list just so she could get up and sing 4 or more times within the rotation. This was at a Sunday afternoon family Karaoke. Being that anyone could put their name on the list and you could have another person go up with you without you loosing your turn, then I guess she found a way to beat the system. I on the other hand would not do that to get up more often, but it was playing by the rules, so to speak.

I have about the same amount of singers per rotation on average. I don't have a problem with duet, I have a problem when it gets abused - which it will eventually. This is why I only allow 1 time per round - end of story. You want a duet, this will count for both persons turn. If it's a large group, this is where (& the only time) I may bend the rule & stick that group at the end of a round, but even when I get these large groups, more often than not, the "group" name will be different & they will tell me that it is different than this group because "Cindy" isn't singing with us but on this one CIndy is singing but John isn't. Well - it's the same group overall & I will allow them 1 shot at the end of the round. As far as not getting complaints - i'd be willing to bet you longshot odds that people DO get ticked because of it, but would rather not stir the pot so they just keep their mouth shut & go with the flow (or maybe NOT come back). I probably wouldn't say anything myself, but I wouldn't be back & I WOULD let others know outside the club. It happens ALL the time. They'll be your best friend IN the club, but once they get to another - boy you & your ways are the worst that can be (i'm not personally saying YOU as in you, but figuratively speaking). That is where it can & probably will hurt you in the long run.



You're absolutely correct. It won't affect a rotation technically speaking. But it DOES give the illusion to people in the audience that one (or more) person is getting up more than they might be even though they have been there the same amount of time, turned in according to the KJ rotation rules but because someone wants to do a duet - why should they get a chance to sing 1 extra turn (or more) per round because another may want to sing with this particular person. As far as duets go. Say you have 5 duets (10 people) in a 20 singer rotation. All the duet partners have a solo song on top of their duet, well that's 10 people at 4 minutes per, that's 40 minutes. Now if a duet rule was in place, they would all sing their duet, that's half the time to get the rest of the singers up.
You also mentioned about the person that won't go up without someone else up there - again I totally agree, but 9 out of 10 times, the one "helping" ends up overpowering & finishing. I will allow a "helper" to the stage for moral support & to sing in their ear, but they don't get their own mic - remember they are just there for moral support, not to take over & finish the song.

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Well.... we seem to get more and more new singers each week ... and regulars that have been coming for nearly 10 yrs. So ..... thank goodness... not too many have done (or do) as you.

Only once, did a young man come up and ask why he hadn't yet sung when "singer X" had sung twice (alone and as part of a group). We explained the "First Come-First Served" & "One Slip Per Singer Per Rotation" policies and he said... Ahhhhh I see....once was on someone else's slip the other on his own No fighting about it... just "got it". And actually... he said.. Im gonna come earlier and bring some friends next week...And He DID!

Gotta Love That !!

The two main policies we emphasize are ... "First come, First served" (get there earlier, you'll sing more) .... and "One Slip per Singer Per Rotation" (do with it as you wish).

Heading back to my "agree to disagree" corner now. Have a great evening!!

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Hi Lonman....

Ya... I hear what you are saying.. and in many many ways... you make a lot of sense...on many points. I've been to shows... that didn't have "rules" .. or had sign up sheets.... and ya just signed up to sing.. and no consideration at all was given to those that hadn't sung. So.. in those cases.. people did sing 3 and 4 times or more ... solo ... before others. Not OKAY ... but that was the way the guy ran it.

And .. He's not in business anymore. To be honest with ya, Lonman ... (and Im not trying to be smug or anything) ... But.. when we first started.. there were 11 Karaoke shows in our "area" .... about a 20-30 mile radius. There are now.... TWO. Right now... we are only running 1 show a week (college, tourist area) ... but during the summers... we do 4 ... and get calls for more that we just can't humanly do.

I Don't have all the details as to why those folks aren't doing shows anymore ... but the folks who used to run them now come to ours most weeks. And often tell us we are the fairest and best show they've attended. So ... that's why I was so curious why the duet/group issue was such a problem for some of you (collectively, not personally). Thats all. I honestly wasn't trying to cause a "ruckus".


Okay .. NOW Im heading back to my "agree to disagree" corner. Just wanted to say hi to Lonman ~~ and answer his post.

Take Care~~

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I do love that as well, when other companies hosts come to my show. I have 6 regular hosts (all different comapanies) that come to my shows - even though the company they work for are working elsewhere on the same nights. Their companies - even though they boast 10's of thousands of songs, oddly enough don't have the songs that these people like to sing.

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Wow, I've never heard or seen this before, but I will employ this the next time things get slow. Just have to encourage people to give me more than one slip at a time.

Why do singers do that?

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Despite the internet rumor, Karaoke is not Japanese for "drunk buffoon with microphone."  However, "rotation," is Japanese for wait your damn turn!

Wow... thats amazing! And nice compliment to you and your show, as well. Glad for you!

Tell me (everyone) ... do you folks find that people coming to your show prefer pop/rock or country ... or do you find it balanced? We had a few years where it was 75% country.....25% everything else.... but now.. that has completely turned around. While we still get many who love to sing the country songs... more and more of our "new crowd" is college age... and singing more pop/rock. Its been a real challenge to keep up with the thrust in that direction music wise... but we are keeping our heads above water.

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Lonman your method of a duet counting for both turns is also fine , as this rule aplies to everyone. What happened to Bob and Joe was differant as they both went up to do a duet together and then the KJ was going to let Joe go up by himself, so they did not have a consistent rule as you do. That is one thing I think makes or breaks alot of the KJ's, not staying consistent. You say only one time singing per rotation weather or not it is a duet, that can certainly cut down on the ones who try to abuse the duet thing and everyone knows that is the way it is done at your show, I actually like that idea, if I have alot of problems in the future with the duet thing that may be what I do. But for now things are going good and we are just trying to stay consistent in what we do.

And yes, if someone needs help most of us that give them help try to sing to the ear of the person needing help not into the mike as much.