Karaoke Forums

This is going to sound REAL bad, but I call karaoke "self-esteem" night.

Don't get me wrong.....I don't have an ego, and am always open to comments, cause I am no expert either....(hence the reason for singing lessons), but I LOVE going to a new place to sing that I have never gone before, and getting compliments. It is the best feeling in the world!

Whenever I feel that my singing has reached the lowest point, I go to a new karaoke place.

However, I still know I have a lot to work on, and my voice is by no means perfect. I hit sour notes all the time....I just sing songs in public that don't invlove those sour notes !. They are saved for the tenant's lounge in the apartment building to drive the neighbours nuts

But Tigger, you are right. There are many people that THINK they are amazing.....and then when they are told they are not....they are crushed, and they freak out.....just like on AI or CI, when horrible singers are told they are bad.....and are obviously hearing it for the first time.

On the CI boards, I had a fight with some dude cause he wanted his voice critiqued, and when I told him I thought he had to sing with more emotion as his voice sounded "boring", he said back "well, *obviously* the judges saw something in me to put me through to the second round" a.k.a. "you don't have a clue what you are talking about".

That is actually my worst fear of Idol....to get to the celebs, and have them rip me apart. I think I sing well....but I am so scared to hear what they think....especially if I get nervous and really screw up bad.....like one of my friends....who was on TV....got horrible reviews from the judges ("that just made my ears pop" was the exact quote)....and then had to do a karaoke show that weekend.

Anywho, I don't know if I made a point, or if anyone cares, just felt like typing this morning I guess. Chow

Yep!!



Amen... & I love your sig. Great sentiment. I'm gonna have to get me one.. heheh

, nothing wrong with the truth, hon... who doesn't like to get compliments????

I don't get out to karaoke much anymore, I'm either working or can't get a babysitter, but I still love it. And I'm not the best singer in the world, but I know what songs suit me, and I admit I always do the "me" tracks... especially when I'm at a place where no-one knows me.

Hell, it's human nature to love compliments!!!

_________________

*nodding head*

Yep - Rit - I know what you are talking about.

Why do you think that after 10 years of NEVER singing in public or anything more than along with radio I turned to karaoke when my life was miserable. Work was so bad for me and I was getting pushed every which way and it was the most negative thing in my life yet the place I spent the most hours and no way out even though I was looking for one. My self esteem was down below zero (much like our outside temp is here right now ).

I knew that once I started singing in public again, I'd finally get something positive from people and that was a feeling that no one at work could take away from me unless they came to rip out my vocal chords! At that time in life I needed acceptance and reassurance and karaoke is about the only thing that got me through the last 1 1/2 yrs.

OK - sorry about that - enough of my sob story - I'm better now!

You know.. this has been addressed before (of course), but I just cannot FREAKING imagine doing something as bold as going to an AI audition without first getting EXTENSIVE OBJECTIVE feedback on my voice!!!

I think if everyone did that, those audition lines wouldn't be quite so long (those Poor poor judges!!!).

Wouldn't I just LOVE to be an AI audition judge??? OL!!!

"Ok, um... no...., no REALLY I mean no..., that's right... N-O!!! (next please)" heheheh

Of course, I would put through the awesome singers like Jazzy & Heather who were turned away (I cannot believe that) for stupid reasons.

Cindy,
You brought up a few points, that I was struggling to deliniate between before regarding Tiggers post that appeared to me to question the relationship between :ego: and :excellence:. No aspect of the arts, and especially the performing arts IMHO can ever preclude the larger than usual :ego:. So I was struggling with how to break this relationship down.

Although I can't factually back this up, another point Tigger made that I was struggling to try to find a way to answer, without trying to get into case study type research, and aptitude profiles regarded her statement:

" In other words, there's no way a truly flawed performer, who refused to listen to people who told them of their singing flaws, is going to have any staying power in the industry. There's simply no one who'll want to listen to them. "

Tigger stated also "In this venue"

I suppose it's best for me to be blunt regarding my feelings on this issue, and not beat around the bush. I don't believe that the type of person that submits a "Truly flawed performance" here even has a shot at getting into the industry to begin with. Part of this stems from the fact that I don't think too many would knowingly submit a "truly flawed" performance in such a display showcase to begin with. Again, with the exception of comedic routines such as a male covering Helen Reddy's song, "I am woman", or "You make me feel like a natural woman", what type of future in the industry can a person have, if they perform, and submit badly flawed performances even in here ?

My guess is that some of the 9 and 10 rated performances in here are submitted by people that have chances of being in the music industry as performers, (assuming they aren't already). Yet does listening to the "critiques" in here do much for people of their ability to help finetune their singing skills ? I'm inclined to think not. Criticism regarding their recording ability is helpfull, as is the morale boost, "You should go out there and show the world what you have'. Yet will the Critiques in here actually ever turn the flawed performer into a top 40 recording star, or famous Opera singer ? I seriously doubt it

They should just be allowed to have fun. It takes ALOT of thought to Critique the "truly flawed" performer, and actually help them. Alot of considerations must go into this

Now here, I'll have to respectfully disagree with you.

Granted, advice and critiques online are not going to turn an 'average' singer into a 'star', but as for 'finetuning' skills... it DOES help. I have personally been able to improve quite a bit from listening to feedback from others about my voice, and I know several other folks who have been able to noticeably 'tweak' their voices (for the better) since getting advice on this forum.

So... just fer the record... critiques DO help some of us.

I agree syber.. i know A LOT of people who at least improved their recording skills, (if not their singing).. mainly their mixing though... and that was all based on advice.... mind you.. NO ONE EVER HELPED ME... darn you all and your pc's:)

Also.. i think critiques don't help SOME people.. because they simply aren't open to it.....even if they request it, they want compliments, not actual advice... blah blah blah

exactly!

Actually, I truly believe that even people who need LOTS of work can improve a lot if they were just open to suggestions (not all suggestions are good and helpful obviously, but many are), especially if they've never sought help from a vocal instructor before. BUT, they have to be open to it.

I believe that like Shotgun (i think it was her) said, we should never stop learning, and the more you know.. the more you realize you do not know. Something to that effect.

I suppose those that excel, can in this venue help others who submit what I consider the close to perfect performances. My thoughts were that there really isn't much margin for Critique on the actual singing aspects of the 9 or 10 rated submission, because at that level of ability there aren't flaws or technically discernible problems. Disagreements in style perhaps, yet just individual opinions, that might not at all be indicative of what the industry thinks about such a persons signiture style, and approach. It might be a "splitting hairs" type situation

Hmm... perhaps... but, I can't lie and say that i believe all of those people ARE nines or tens. I know, if I RANKED, i would veryyyyy rarely hand out either of those numbers. (no, i have never ranked anyone before). I was just discussing this with someone yesterday. because, the current ranking system makes no sense to me (don't worry, i won't go into THAT again:) to me, everyone is either, below average, average, or above, and the rest of the options are simply redundant. I don't KNOW if I have heard a single PERFECT submission. (That is, if you take into account rating BOTH mixing AND singing. I have heard a couple perfect submissions vocally, but, horrible recordings, or, awesome mixing jobs, but some sour notes.) I think there is ALWAYS something to critique, regardless of the rating they have. No one is perfect, and someone that someone ELSE thinks is perfect may not be perfect to me. (I am REALLY picky)... heck, I can't stand half of the singers I hear on the radio, and would love to critique their arses:)

Anyways, that is my rant.

Gilly, You hit the nail on the head. I'm not talking about this "friendly" rating scale where anything below a 9 is a C-. Yet in such a venue, I suppose it should be this way.


Let me give you one example of a performance in here, that to my ear is a 9 or 10. There are a few others, yet I won't mention them. For something to stand out as "superior" to me, first of all, I must be familiar with the style of music. Yet even given that facet, I'm still not a vocalist, nor would I be able to take into consideration another area I know nothing about which is recording, and mixing abilities.

I would confidently give JazzyBaggz "Giving you the best that I've got" a perfect score. Perhaps it'd be best if Jazzy was the one to answer this, or someone else who feels safe in doing so Can a performance such as that, (or a few other performances , one by a male where the person just had a rough transition into a falsetto part of a song yet obviously knows it without it being pointed out) or the actual 9's or 10's benefit from criticism in here ?

In my opinion, and experience a good vocalist has an ear that is much more sensitive than we musicians that are only instrumentalists in most cases. When I heard Jazzy do Anita Baker, the first thing I thought to myself was, "Are there actually ears out there, that can accurately constructively Critique that" ?

AND Steven baby, that is assuming that those 9/10 subs actually merit a 9/10....if not, then we're in a whole nother puddle of pig slop.

Roo, that is one of my biggest fears too....that all along I've been thinking I'm reasonably decent to listen to but no one's really telling me how bad I am...I think that's prolly a normal fear of everyone. Like that dream you're just in your underwear. Or that dream that you're late to an important exam. Wait, that one doesn't apply here...but ya know what I mean.

, I like your analogies Tigger

To be honest, I'd be sad if I got all 10s. Yes a 10 here or there on a sub would be great but I'd like to get 9's and yes even 8's (that is "VERY GOOD"), at least I'd have something to work for.

If we all are perfect all the time then what is the point of continuing to sing? It would be boring.

Think of some of the famous singers that have #1 hit after #1 hit after #1 hit -- where's the fun in their next release? Sure the first few 10's.

Thanks Steven! I like thinking of new images to happily share with people!!

And Cindy - sad?! sad???! I'd be all happy gettin' 10 after 10 after 10....I'd be feeling like an incredible, beautiful diva that everyone admires and loves. I'd be feeling like Jazzy, Heather, Gilly, Tammy, CindyRoy, and whomever else I forgot.

This just made me realize something though: sometimes I get a lil mopey and sulky knowing that I'm not as good as them and not in their echelon, but then I realized: people at levels below or different than them definitely have their place in the singing world, and are totally enjoyable too. Realizing that makes me not feel so "left out"; makes me still feel "special" (I'm spoiled and need to feel special dern it) (can't believe I'm spilling this to you guys but this feels like a safe comfy thread with cool peeps).

That is the most scariest thing for me too!

I am so lucky though, that when I am bad....my BF lets me know. I can always tell when I did not do well...cause of the look on his face when I get back to the table after singing a song.

He never actually says it was "bad" but he can't hide the look on his face as well as he thinks he can !

It is nice having someone there telling you when you don't do well....cause it really keeps you grounded, and you know that once you have embarassed yourself, you have someone to tell you !

I had to mention more, that even people that aren't technically "up there" (though they're still incredible) have simply BLOWN ME AWAY with their songs...like Roo's "Falling Into You" or Dona's "Look of Love" and prolly lotsa others.

Don't mind me, still trying to comfort my spoiledness.

FoxeRoxy, I'm curious as to the mindset of most that submit songs. Some obviously intend on being funny. Others are proud of their work, and submit best efforts. Yet do people actually think to themselves,


"On a scale of 1-10, I think I've just turned out a 6 and I want the world to hear it" ?


I can understand this mentality within a context of a fun submission, or a person that doesn't ask for feedback on their efforts. Do people that submit requesting feedback however say to themselves "gee, I'm not good at all, so here everyone, listen to my lack of talent and just reaffirm my subpar performance to me in public" ?


This sounds weird for me to post I realize, Yet in the context of this thread, I think it's an important aspect to consider. Don't most that submit efforts, regardless of how bad they are in reality, think that their performance is at least presentable, or good ?


If my assumption is correct. Is there anyone that wouldn't have hurt feelings if they received honest 4-6 ratings ? Don't most expect to receive a 9 ? I think it's important to have some understanding of the psychology behind this